Lucky...

To be fair, the thread is about the top 10 accomplishments, so if I debunk some of these that doesn't mean you are objectively wrong, as you may very well be right as the detriment dwarfs the benefit. Uh, ok, how 'bout Iraq when the UN was and is against us all the way? It's easy to belive that if the UN was against us with Afgan that he would have gone in anyway, as he did with Iraq. What was the benefit of us in Afgan? Anything? Seriously? So the fact that telemarketers can't leaglly call is a ground-moving event? What has been the benefit since? Will things change? Will prosecutors go after violators? Ok, there have only been 2 in history, so it's not as if there were 20 during the Clinton years and none since. Furthermore, are we like Domino's Pizza that delivers and once we get out the terrorism will resume at a higher rate? Too soon to rack this one up. Could have been avoided? Not by bombing and screwing in their affairs but by leaving them alone, huh? Truely this is one of his greatest accomplishments, even though he gave away the Clinton surplus in teh midst of a war budget and soaring annual deficit and record national debt. Bush will take his debt of 5.5T and double it. Canada's dollar will likely pass us by Bush's term's end. Great thing? That is a legitimate thing, but in all reality he should fix our health system first. But at least he didn't give it to some corporation. What's this? Is this part of the Patriot Act???? Meanwhile the country is fiscally crumbling, the world hates us, but Bush is a good runner and that's noteworthy? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for replying, and you may be right, but I was looking for accomplishments that are job-related and beneficial for the country. You probably have a couple; do you think he's been a good pres? If you voted for him, are you glad?

Please, not the, "He isn't perfent but he tries" routine. Lying to Congress about a BJ is impeachment-worthy, but lying to Congress about what a potential enemy has in the way of weapons is responding well? Can you please elaborate on what he did that was a well-tailored response to 9/11? Thanks. That's honorable in its own right, but exactly what does it do for the country, remembering he is a servant of the people not his wife? Model to others? If Barkely isn't a role model for your kids, Bush and wife certainly aren't one for us. So did you go have an affair after CLinton did his deed? I don't think 1 person said, "If it's good enough for the pres, it's good enough for me" and left a 20-year monogomous marriage to have an affair. Uh, ok. He has cut virtually every veterans program by not increasing it at teh rate it takes to maintain the current vets and account for the newly injured die to his war, he's cut educational programs drastically causing universities to virtually double their tuition costs, he's cut senior progs and medicine progs while outlawing going to Canada to buy cheaper. Furthermore, he doidn't turn down 1 death sentence put before him and sent 154 people to their death, probably at least 1, likely several were innocent. I could go on, but please establish how he cares about people...... let's not even get to Katrina response.... Thanks for responding Wendy, but #1 is general vague and 2 & 3 are just friendly rhetoric w/o any reference. I'd love to read a comprehensive response. If you do, include how it helps many people and is generally good for the masses, not just a church group here or there.

Or when talking to the leader of Brazil - "you have blacks too?"

Great reference. I had the Bushism calendar and read that - couldn't believe it was true until Farenheit 9/11 showed the clip at the end. Oh yea, made Michale Moore a multi millionaire.

How did he start out well? Got us into a war by omitting intelligence to Congress and at the dismay of most of the world? I just can't see how he started so well. BTW, he killed the Ergonomics Bill started by CLinton and OSHA to give fast help to injured workers. He also killed legislation that would have reduced the amount of arsenic in our drinking water, and that was right out of the blocks, so no one has convinced me how he jumped out of the blocks.

Thanks for answering. OK, so the net result of the losses we suffered, human and financial (and world reputation) were worth not taking crap? Isn't that kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face? Ultimately we've done nothing, and now descent countries in the world hate us. I just can't see the long-term benefit from all of this and the short-term is highly costly. That's not an accomplishment, that's an aberration! I really can't think of anything but the gun manufacturer legislation that he signed, and even that was more about pro-corp than pro-gun ownership I'm sure. He was going to extend the Assualt gun ban if Congress passed it, but they didn't, so the gun manufacterer thing was purely coincidental.

No, just the new protocol.

In a way, big government offloading billions to corporations. The goal is to have very limited government that is disempowered, so it appears the gov is huge now that the Repubs have spent us into a 9 trillion $ national debt, but the agenda is to deplete the gov by deficit spending it into the ground, the corps will be left to further control everything since they will have all the power. Essentially the neo-con Fascist manifesto.

Most powerful? Uh, look at the dollar lately?

Deterence is a purpose. Death would be a great deterent to this sort of crime. I gurantee you it would happen less if we started killing child molesters. Guarantee? I have the feeling your writing from your heart and not via statistical research. If you did, you would realize that deterrence does nothing to reduce crime.

Tracy Lords......15

This has come up twice, now. Why the double standard? - Jim I was just jk'n by saying they can't cut off her junk.

Actually, it is one of the purposes of justice; it's just not the only purpose of justice. There are certain philosophical justifications of punishment, which are not identical, but which may coexist: 1. Retribution/vengeance. Society expresses its outrage, and victims "feel good" by having their vengeance. 2. General deterrence. Make an example out of the offender to deter others in society from committing crimes. 3. Specific deterrence. By punishing the offender, society hopes to make him think twice before committing another crime. 4. Restitution. Make the offender pay something back to society and/or the victim for the crime he's committed. 5. Prevention. By removing the offender from society, he is physically prevented from preying on society. This is all theoretical, of course. Mid-level undergrad stuff. This does not apply to CP, as with deterrence theory there must be choice - no choice for dead people, hnce no specific deterrence.

Deterrence is the most tired argument of all, and the least supportable by data. It's a novel thought and if worked would be hard to argue against, but now it is just used as misdirection from the truth. Remember, that deterrence only goes from life w/o parole to death, which is a pretty narrow sliver. Do you really think people capable of 1st degree murder use logic and carefully weigh jeopardy? We are one of the few industrialized countries that still have CP, we just did away with juvenile executions 6 months ago (there were 8 doing it, we did 19 of the last 39), we have virtually no social welfae compared to other nations, we have arguably the worst medical programs of all advanced nations; no socialized medicine as most countries have, we have one of the highest rates of incarrceration in the world, so how is it that you call the US liberal? Can ya help me with that one? OK, let's start at the RNC - I agree

You realize there used to be many crimes for which we would execute. Now we are down to 1, but the problem is that even countries like Russia have abolished CP. Until 6 months ago we were 1 of 8 nations that still kiled kids. 19 of the last 39 child executions were by the US.

Or don't let children into the jails = incapacitation.

Well, actually victim's families, cause victims are already dead in our current death penalty state. DP = retribution.

Unless they're female offenders.

Something kind of interesting is that the nature of "republican" has changed since 1972. In 1972, the vast majority of white South was democratic; yes, a different variety, but the term "yellow dog democrat" didn't exist for nothing. Not sure what it means, but it's still kind of interesting. Wendy W. I think you are right on the money. I have heard many many times that JFK would be considered a republican today (I am not trying to start anything please) Just pointing out a shift in the parties. True dat, Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, whereas when LBJ signed minority legislation it chased away the Yellow Dog southern Dems.

Good point, if you're desensitised, you tend to ignore the guy kicking you in the balls.

Comapred to whom, Barbara Bush? Oh I see ur point.

Ahh, Libertarians are just disgruntled Republicans.

What is funny is that with all their smarts they elected one of the dumbest presidents ever.... Good point!!!! And they can't even debate about it while refering to substance and performance, just rhetoric.

Quote:"...data from the widely used General Social Survey (GSS) consistently show that Republicans are better educated than Democrats (on average, they have more than half a year more education and hold a higher final degree)."Source: TCS Daily Hmmmm, blue states are better educated than red states. Of course that's a rough calculation, but I would like to know more about the data collection process.

and you have a long history of blaming everything on Bush. Look at me as a counterbalance to the hysterical left. Edited to add: Funny how in a thread about flip-flopping, you point out my consistency. How is the left to blame for the gaffs of the last 5 years? Please list. Is this Jenfly01? Something mighty familiar here and I noticed you just registered recently. I'm not blaming the left exclusively. I'm saying they are complicit. Here's a post a few down from the one Masterblaster attempted to mischaractrize me with: But back on topic. I have said this about 3 times so far and haven't gotten an answer yet. If every day when you got up you heard the Mullahs in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan saying what a dumb shit OBL is and how he was the worst leader the Muslim world has ever had, would you conclude we had won? Would you be encouraged to continue the fight because you knew it was only a matter of time before we defeated him? Or would you think we were losing and needed to pull our troops out? It’s not. Becauuuuuuse? Kinda hard to blame us when you own the House, the Senate, the White House and have an overwhelming majority in the US Sup Ct. Not sure you’ve established a basis for that assertion. OK, so what? Here is my question: How is the left to blame for the gaffs of the last 5 years? Please list. Gee, and I thought the topic was: Flipflop update OBL is a leader of the Muslim world? Which country does he govern? I thought he was a nomadic millionaire who had an army and participated in local wars and international terrorism. How do you assume that these people say OBL is a dumbshit? I don’t know if we ever defeat/capture him, or if it matters. Al Quaidi (sp) has an organizational hierarchy that would take over and the power would be handed off to other members. The key to the city doesn’t reside in the capture of OBL, we had terrorism before him and we’ll have it long after he’s gone. We can’t win but we can lose a lot. Certain matters are damage control issues. I wonder how many miles of border security we could have secured by now if we spent the 300 or so billion bucks on that instead of in Iraq? The key is home security rather than stomping elsewhere.