Lucky...

Dude, thanks for the input.

With all respect, it’s kind of like mixing it all together into one g=big average that excuses dirty cop’s behavior. Again, if a cop lies and is caught, he loses the evidence. If he lies and is not caught, an innocent guy goes to prison or is executed. If a citizen lies and is caught, he goes to prison. A cop’s lie is wryly more egregious than a citizen’s lie. Can anyone tell me why Grand Jury testimony is FOREVER sealed? Hmmmmmm, could it be that the prosecutor lied his or her ass off and that if released it would identify the corrupt court system?

Walking down the sidewalk, yes. But your car and you in your car have some rights to privacy / protections against unreasonable search. So I disagree with you. OK, but Terry, as have introduced into this argument, has nothing to do with a vehicle stop. BTW, Terry isn’t really a search, but an outer garment, “pat” of the person. Oh, so your can be prosecuted for an abortion? Oh wait, even tho it is statute in most states, you CANNOT be successfully prosecuted for a 1st or 2nd term abortion via case law. Flatly, you’re wrong, appellate decision has supremacy over statute. As far as police are concerned? It’s all the same. Fuck, help me please, I’m getting a headache here. You claim that statute trumps, which is wrong, then you claim that Terry and Chimel can back them up. Why would a lesser, in your ideas, entity have to back them up? If statute is king over precedent, then they don’t need precedent as a “back-up.” See, these cases that are heard by appellate courts up to and including the US Sup Ct render what are called, “Bright line rules.” It is considered likely that most cops, who can barely butter their bread in many cases, cannot read a 300-page decision, so they extrapolate a bright line rendering that cops can understand. They usually contain 3 or 4 small words, so as not to confuse the cop. With the exception of Miranda, where the rights are lengthy but simple, “Terry pat and frisk,” “Chimel bubble” and others represent these extensive US Sup Ct and other appellate court decisions.

True, but as I said, they could actually shake the vehicle as it sat in a parking lot, not moving. It really pushes PC more than moving violations. BTW, are you saying your step-dad has told you he lied about a PC stop? You're shattering my vision of America.... stop..... ahhhhhh

What is "notorious cohabitation?" It is teh right wing's way of saying that you are shacking up with a GF. Pathetic, huh? Misdemeanor in some states. Antimiscegenation: Marrying a person of another race. 1968 Loving V Virginia - sentenced to 1 year for going to DC to marry, returned to Virginia and sentenced - allowed to promise to leave for 25 years in exchange for suspended sentence. Don;t believe me, go look it up.

My rant is more against the machine. Most cops are good. Joe Skydiver is usually pretty safe with his license plate frame. Most people are. If you just happen to slow down or stop in a drug locale that's being watched, you'll see what I'm ranting about, though. I've been profile stopped several times. Something about my good looks made the officer believe that this cat isn't hauling dope or driving drunk, so I escaped the full monty shake down. I especially like the warning I got today as I was tooling down Memorial Drive on my bike (My speedo said 55 in a 50) when a cop pulls along side me and gives me a loud speaker blast to slow it down from sixty.

None. Which is why a person can, and should be ticketed for those things. But not searched. If however, in the process of getting ticketed for those things, evidence of other crimes is found, then they probably will get searched and get the book for that too. I like being elemental too, but then you have to look at what they call the, "Totality of the circumstances." That's where you realize, as the author of this thread stated, you have pretext stops wher ethe cops have reason (PC) to pull you over and find such evidence. In the business it is a fishing expedition.

It's not just the older cops who lie on the stand to keep the state's case intact, unless the definition of "older" is "past his rookie year." And, sorry, it's not just to put away kids' drug dealers and baby-rapers; it's to support any prosecution. You're a moral guy. You know right from wrong. You know lawful from unlawful. You start making that kind of moral compromise, you're flirting with a deal with the devil. The ordinary citizen is held to the following standard: the law is the law, and if you break it, you get prosecuted. Perjury is a felony in every state in the country. I don't see any exemptions in the perjury statutes for police officers. Perjury by a police officer on the witness stand in a court of law is a form of official corruption. I wish I could get more people to recognize that. And of course, I'm sure you realize I wasn't condemning cops. I was just pointing out the harsh reality that lying on the stand in court - yes, I mean perjury - is one of the tools in their toolbox. KInda funny how you start out diplomatically, but then your true feelings shine thru. I agree with you. A cop lying doesn't not equal a citizen lying. Cops lie = no evidence / citizen lies = prison.

F your wife is aware of any bad cops by way of their actions and she doesn’t report it, she is an dirty. Special relationship. Is this a justification to lie and be dishonorable? And then let their friends go, or let influential people go while citing some poor slob….. It’s outta gas man. What of they lie to get their cop buddy off the hook for a shooting, killing, vehicle accident, etc? Happen ALL the time; the rationalizations don’t get anymore fun for those who are screwed. By you posting the worst of the worst scenarios I think we see your agenda. Absolutely true, but the difference is that I’m not sworn to uphold the law and the …… truth. I expect cops to be honest as their contract requires, a far cry from perfect. I have no problem being far more critical of a cop.

Enter….. photo radar. Not at all the same as lying…. Now you’re going to tell me prosecutors lie? OMG, my life is shattered. That’s ok, if a cop or prosecutor lies, no evidence, if they lie and are not caught, they get to throw an innocent guy into jail. If a defendant lies he goes to jail… I’ve got to go buy me some American flags, I’ll be back later. This: And then this: I appreciate the diplomacy, but you’ve just supported my contention.

______________________________________ I just have one question. Where is your proof to substiantiate the idea that 'most' cops are dirty and "can just lie"? As was mentioned, we have law enforcement officers who post here. Are you saying they are dirty and liars? You made a rash statement and I'd like to see your proof! You're going to find 'dirty' and 'liars' in any phase of our society. Why just cops? I hope, you never get in a situation where you need a cop! That cop, might just be a 'poster' here! Chuck Mt experiences establish this. Furthermore, the US SUp Ct wrote that the EXCLUSIONARY RULE was to dissuade police misconduct. If cops weren't prone to misconduct, why would they need to be disuaded from it? Special relationship. Cops have a contractual special relationship so that they cannot ignore crimes. If their cop buddy is doing something illegal they must report it. Of course they don;t making them both dirty. Serpico was considered an aberration but cops and non-cops, but that is the law that isn't adhered to = some degree of being dirty. Me too, that means I'll have 2 criminals working against me instead of just 1.

Was I talking to you? And for anyone who's ONLY against this license plate thing... it stands. The problem isn't the law about the frame... it appears to be people's trust of law enforcement. There are law enforcement officers on this very forum. How about you keep your PA's to yourself? See how fun it is to play sensitive? Did this slippery slope start when cops were invented? Or how about when any vehicle laws were made? Or or or, how about when they made us REGISTER our cars (the fascists!) Or did the license plate frame thing start the sloping slip 'n slide? Yes, you wrote that all people who think the license plate law is a bad thing are wackos. That’s like me writing all people who are Republicans are maggots and then saying I didn’t call you a maggot just because you are coincidentally a Repub. Most of them have a degree of this, versus calling them all corrupt “wackos” is a far cry from each other. Furthermore you are not a cop, so you cannot speak for them. This passage is barely worth responding to, but I will. The slippery slope is a term that suggest that whatever the issue is, standalone, it can lead to other legislation of it’s not nipped in the bud. Slippery slope: metaphor meaning things pick up speed if they get pushed down the slope.

They should be, but when they don't want the jury to see certain things they turn it off. (Like them NOT doing SFST) Don't sign the ticket you go to jail. TX legislature passed laws protecting citizens against BS cops but governor Rick Perry vetoed them. Remember that when you vote. Again, see my rant on my web site (lawyerwebb sig line) The details are there. ______________________ No, suppress evidence? Cops and now judges are honorable people, they don't suppress evidence. (joke) I audio taped the cops at a traffic stop and subsequent ticket, fought it and tried to admit the tape..... cop screamed, "NOT RELEVANT" and the judge agreed. Cops and judges are honorable people, they don't lie.

If I recall correctly, for those types of offenses you can refuse to sign the ticket and they (used to?) have to get a supervisor come and sign for you. We did that in high school once when a small-town cop was having a bad day and wanted to write 20 of us jaywalking tickets. The supervisor came and told him to take a break and apologized to us. If the cop NOTICES something or smells alchohol... then they should be required to have audio and video of the stop. If they SEE drugs or smell them... they should have to have taped evidence and maybe another officer on scene. Maybe that'd help a bit? You're not in high school anymore! I don;t know your age, but things change daily in regard to basic protections and treatment allowable. As for not signing, the cop can arrest you or he can just write, "Served" and that suffices to the ticket. Go to court to fight it and the judge will look at you as uncooperative. I had this happen once where I was willing to sign, but teh cop wrote, "Served" so when I went to court I established that I didn;t refuse to sign.

It's not about the registration, it's about another reason to deprive privacy.

Your client is lying, cops never lie! They are honorable people. The computer lied; cops don’t lie, they are honorable people. War on drugs, war on terror….. Wars of convenience so we can be at war. These are both unwinnable wars designed to divert funds and attention from the thieving Republican Party. BTW, I think we all know that most of these wars derive from the right. Jesus is good, drugs are immoral, unless you’re Limbaugh and you have a little Oxycontin problem. That’s OK, corporations, which prisons are wholly corporate owner in America now, can run these prisons fro profit, so yet another positive comes from those evil drug users. ß That is sarcasm. I’ve said this forever. This is the Republican agenda at its best.

Sure, probably just more logical. I think compassion for people also falls into this, as Repubs tend to put money before people. Of course the response would be that it's other people'smoney, making it a circular argument, but to disallow the poor people of a nation to have access to medical coverage pretty much sums up the nature of this country.

Source: TCS Daily Every once in a while even the mainstream media wakes up enough to notice the remarkable dearth of conservatives and libertarians in US universities and colleges. Of course, this isnt exactly a man bites dog story. As George Will recently put it: Not a Republican rag.....no. For instance, nearly half said that their professors frequently comment on politics in class even though it has nothing to do with the course or use the classroom to present their personal political views. In answers to other questions, the majority acknowledged that liberal views predominate. Most troubling, however, were the responses to the survey item On my campus, there are courses in which students feel they have to agree with the professor's political or social views in order to get a good grade -- 29% agreed. More evidence of this not being a Repub rag.... I/m gonna go research Moveon.com.... Most troubling might be if 71% agreed. 29% agreeing is acceptable. It's probably the 29% who don't get what they consider a good grade because they don't put in the effort. That's aside from the fact that just because 29% whine about it, doesn't mean that it actually happens at all. You missed the point, this article is a republican rag....

The RNC and DNC are both under pressure to raise as much money as possible for the coming elections. Which team do you think is doing better? Not pandering to beg for money, actually operating as a representative under pressure. Typical GOP answer tho, raising money to convince votes is above actually functioning as a representative

Yea, I missed it. Sorry. First of all, I'll have to check but I question how "American" American oil companies are considering that most are multinational. Admittedly, the price of oil is higher world wide and I attribute a lot of that to Bush's vigorous stirring of the middle east hornet's nest. But the real price of a gallon of gas isn't pegged 1:1 to the current price of oil. Oil and gas companies deal in bulk and pay less than the going rate, (something I wish our government would do with prescription drugs). Also, someone pointed out yesterday that the oil companies say that mixing blends with ethanol etc. makes gas more expensive yet those states which don't use those blends are still paying the national average for gas. These folks will get the price that the market will bear. Except for Venezuela. Chavez seems to be the exception and I think a lot of that is just f'ing with Bush. But now that I'm thinking about it, why does Citgo gas (from Venezuelan heavy crude) still cost the same as everyone else? Who's setting the price on their gas? I may have to look into that one, even though I think I know the answer. Evidence of this can be found by looking at Bush SR and Jr's war; the only times in the past 35 - 40 years that gas prices have doubled or more is during the Gulf War and now. Opec has guns too, just not like ours....

what? Don't expect a lot more from him.

Yale doesn't count when you have a C average and daddy got you in. Zipp0 Don't worry, what Bush lacks in intelligence he makes up for in stupidity....

Source: TCS Daily Every once in a while even the mainstream media wakes up enough to notice the remarkable dearth of conservatives and libertarians in US universities and colleges. Of course, this isnt exactly a man bites dog story. As George Will recently put it: Not a Republican rag.....no. For instance, nearly half said that their professors frequently comment on politics in class even though it has nothing to do with the course or use the classroom to present their personal political views. In answers to other questions, the majority acknowledged that liberal views predominate. Most troubling, however, were the responses to the survey item On my campus, there are courses in which students feel they have to agree with the professor's political or social views in order to get a good grade -- 29% agreed. More evidence of this not being a Repub rag.... I/m gonna go research Moveon.com....

I follow your logic, but I don't see the performance of conservs that way - do you have examples of Repubs functioning better under pressure?