Lucky...

I reitterate: I've read so many of your enlightening posts that I think I need some education to get back to where I was . Try posting some data and other reference if you want to teach, you know, how I do when I post.

>>>>>>>>People told me upward mobility was an illusion. I didn't buy it, and having started from the bottom (yes, the bottom) I've started working my own way up. In a few years, maybe I'll actually have a net worth. As a lawyer you have great potential, but still claiming to be impoverished (rolls eyes). How about the gov ensuring basic health and well-being for all people while they try to become millionaires just in case tehy don't make it? As for pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, you could take 100 people and 100 different potentials for success. I'm 6'1", you are likely different, you probably have a hiher than average natural/genetic predisposition to learn/test than others. So to disallow some people the ability to have basic sustainance based on them not pulling themselves up is like me laughing at a man who only has the ability to grow to 5'5". Remember, money before people. >>>>>>>>>>>I suppose I can look at this discussion as between two factions: those that say "you can do it, keep trying, never give up" and those who say, "you can't do it, don't bother trying, just give up." And the 3rd faction, those who say, 'let's be humane to people and ensure they have basic sustaiance regardless of anything else.' >>>>>>>>>>>>To anyone who suggests that I had anything handed to me, stuff it. To anyone who suggested to me in the past that I couldn't, "Up yours." You've had it all handed to you and I doubt you could. >>>>>>>>>>How in the world can anybody with any degree of heart suggest that upward mobility is an "illusion?" That's called "holdin' them down." Heart? You mean that in a gutsy way, not a compassionate way. How can anyone with a heart disallow others medical care just cause they're special, like you lawrocket. Here's the kicker, LAWROCKET SAYS BASICALLY, FUCK WELFARE, YOU HAVE NO ENTITLEMENTS WHEN HE SAYS IN THE SAME BREATH HE CAME FROM SECTION 8 HOUSING. 2 thing I draw from this: 1) He forgot his roots when he needed help and got it. 2) He's a fuckin hypocrite for saying fuck welfare when he received it, not his problem. See, I received food stamps when I was a kid too, my dad ran off and send very little. Oh, and my mom took off too, so I basically raised myself for a coulle years too. Guess who didn't go to school, dropped out and ran off to the military? Guess who didn't have the advantage of basic education while young like some others? Guess who had to get it on their own? See, mr compassionate, we all have stories of our own, but when garbage (Republicans) get together and say fuck the poor, then fuck them. Nothing worse than an ingrate who gladly took the handout, then turns and says, 'what do I owe you?' I really think it's more about classism, as diverting money from the military budget to welfare, essentially what Clinton did that pissed off the rich, isn't felt by the rich, it just pisses them off that a poo slob gets a break. What's pathetic is that the average Joe voter is too dumb to see it and fascilitates the rich via their vote. >>>>>>>>>>>I am NOT the exception that proves he rule. I have found myself surrounded by persons just like myself - those who were at the bottom and worked our asses off to get to where we are. And we're still moving upward. And you did so by way of using section 8 housing, yet you say fuck welfare. What is that Hyp... word? BYW, remind me not to retain your svs, you haven't caught on to the art of the argument by saying you used welfare and then fuck welfare in the same post. >>>>>>>>>Illusion? It is ONLY for those who do not want to walk through the smoke and mirrors. THat's why I worked so hard with those kids in the past - to show them it CAN be done, and show them just a few of the ways to do it. I'm tho proud of you.

Why would they sacrifice their bonuses when they can just pass the cost of increased taxes on to the consumer? Next question: why should they? I realize this is a foreign concept anymore in the US, but remember the concept of competition? Anymore there are CEO entitlements, of course we blame the poor and middle class for begging for entitlements such as socialized meds, but there are far more corporate entitlements. Guys like Herb Keller and Buffet are considered fools, cut throat guys like Trump are revered as genius and brilliant.

WOW... I got banned for far less than that... Or this: Kind of destroys your idiotic stupid rant now doesnt it? And Rush is whinign about NClimber being tossed? Thx for leaving this thread alone Bill, seriously.

Typical left response. I am not responsible. Some one else made me say say it My goof............I know So if you goofed, how can she be responsible? It seems that you are implying that responses from the left are typically on account of goofs from the right? Dain bramage - call in for the reinforcements: (YELLS) NClimber.....but he can't hear....

OH.. I get it. you as an IOWAN.. living in a RED STATE... and a CORN STATE...... as long as YOU GET YOURS from the Government largesse its all ok.... go ahead and rail on against PORK spending.. seems there are plenty of PORK already there in the midwest to go around. I screwd up and left out the word NOT! My dad farmed, he always said farmers would be better off with no subsidies or gov help so, I made a mistake, I DO NOT think there should be tax breaks for ethenol But then they all take it and blame the pregnant minority.

OH.. I get it. you as an IOWAN.. living in a RED STATE... and a CORN STATE...... as long as YOU GET YOURS from the Government largesse its all ok.... go ahead and rail on against PORK spending.. seems there are plenty of PORK already there in the midwest to go around. Right, it's like the $1,000 toilet seat guys balming welfare, the farmers blaming welfare, it just seems they didn't get the memo that theirs is welfare too.

>>>>>>>You want the government to move people up. I want people to move themselves up. How, through hard work No, Iwant the gov to provide basic sustainance as in medical care, and I wnt themt o stay out of labor issues so people can get themselves ahead thru hard work with equitable reward. The Ergonomics Bill, the union intrusions by your president; we have been fucked, all I want is a chance to work and prosper. >>>>>>>>>Corps do not pay taxes only we pay taxes so, if you want to raise taxes on corps you are just supporting a tax increase for anybody using the products of that corp. And is some cases those taxes stack up. Which can be used to benefit people who make corps so wealthy, people who encunter hard times. Uh, corps don;t pay taxes? Are you trying to say that the taxes paid will translate to the consumer? Then how do you explain multi-million $ CEO wages? If corps were taxed higher, would they then have to cut out some of the million $ bonuses? Sure. Remember the American Airlines CEO that tried to take his $1,000,000+ bonus right after 911? He was called on it and returned it,but there is soooooooooo much pork at those positions, but I'm sure you'll agree that they deserve them, after all, they have to fuck their secretary and all. >>>>>>>>>>Open your eyes and curb your emotions, you can learn something I've read so many of your enlightening posts that I think I need some education to get back to where I was . Try posting some data and other reference if you want to teach, you know, how I do when I post.

Most of those who argue with you are the ones who are suffering from class envy.......they are striving for the illusion of upward mobility and therefore defend the system that they hope will reward them. Right, they are planning to be millionaires and trying to set the tax code for then.... a fool's game for 99.999999% of them.

>>>>>>>>I don't. I look at your posts and see an underlying hatred of the wealthy. Envy breeds hatred. You wish you had that money. No, I despise the method of the government that pushes the $$$ toward the top, the idiots there are just recipients of a scummy system, usally born into it. So to hate the player, not me, I hate the game. As usual you misjudge my intentions. >>>>>>>>>>>As opposed to appreciating those who have done it correctly, it is far easier to tear them down and seek to destroy,. Destroy? By making them pay the taxes they should. The very rich know they should be paying more, in fact, as a comparison, it was some of the rich who voted out Hoover for FDR. The country was turning to Communism and the rich knew they need to beat down the enemy (the poor) and not beat them out. I think the intelligent faction of the rich feels the same now. >>>>>>>>>>>>Helping the poor DOES better society. Helping the poor makes one a better person - SO LONG AS THE PERSON HELPING THE POOR IS DOING SO WITH HIS OR HER OWN RESOURCES. Yes, and collectively the country pools resourcs to do so and those countries are better, but enough about Europe and Canada and others. >>>>>>>>>Unless it's Robin Hood. Recall - Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Also recall that the rich were the nobility - who TAXED everyone, thus making them poor. The poor were poor BECAUSE of the the taxes that were pushed upon them - for the benefit of it. Robin Hood is a metaphor, different times, diff economy. In a classist gross capitalistic economy like the US, the rich are inherently wealthy by virtue of the active GNP, the poor that way due to the cost of lving. Really a remote metaphor as compared to today's US economy. >>>>>>>>>>>I'll ask you this - is a society of equal misery a better society than what we have now? Oh, like Canada? Yea, miserable bastards. Can a Canadain citizen pipe in to tell Lawrocket of their missery? >>>>>>>>>Stalin managed to rid Russia of the wealthy and powerful (except himself - he offed all challenges). Mao did, too. So did Pol Pot. All by pointing to an enemy (the bourgoisie). So they kiilled them all, thus ensuring that nobody had a good time (except themselves). Desperate times / measures? Got to bring in Communism to try to bring down Socialism? BRILLIANT. Not only that, but Pol POt, one of the most greusome dicators of all times. >>>>>>>>>It's disingenuous to suggest that class warfare is better for society than intergovernmental warfare. They are BOTH wars, and the 20th century suggests that they have similar death tolls. Do you mean intragovernmental warfare? Not correcting, just making sure I understand the question. >>>>>>>>>>I disfavor class envy and warfare. I disfavor intergovernmental warfare, as well. Sure, the higher socioeconomic classes hate to have a war they've already won - can't we all get along - as I'm doing well. The victors always want peace, hence the police force we see in the streets. >>>>>>>>>I'm anti-war. You're pro-war on one topic. There's the difference between you and me. So you're trying to claim I'm a war activist due to me wanting health insurance and a moderate social system? I could do the same and say you want to war against the poor. In fact, if we get socialized meds, I will be happy and you will become the warrior, using your logic that is. >>>>>>>>>>>I am anti-envy. Rather than seeking to destroy the wealthy when I was living in Section 8 housing, I decided to follow their example. I thought it is better to be like them than to try to make them be like me. I love that toss in of you being poor - kinda trying to assimulate yourself from the streets. Everyone has a story, everyone has their potential, so why make healthcare dependent upon genetics, family, etc? OK< so we all can't drive new Porches, but we should all have healthcare, basic healthcare. To bring in greed and war over that issue is pathetic. If I were asking that all the riches of the country be evenly distributed then your war equation would be relevant, I'm talking basic healthcare here. >>>>>>>Aim high. Make each day your masterpiece. And worry not about what other people do. Envy has no place in success. Right, your blueprint to ensure there is little / no class mobility.

They've gotta pay for health care somehow. What healthcare? Oohhhhhhhhh, you mean HMO's or the emergency care that hospitals must give - get em leak-free and vertical and shove em out the door - I see.

When the brilliant smokers end up with heart attacks and strokes and they become wards of te state if they are indigent. Who pays for that? Taxpayers. So why not nclude a steep user tax? And for the tobacco co's, they are the drug dealers, so if people quit due to cost and they lose profit - boo-hoo. I know you want to defend any and all corps, but we need to reason other factors in sometimes and this is one of them. I would hate to see smoking abolished becaise then skydiving could be later, but user taxes for behavior that's about as ignoant as it could be is justified. My GF's 44 yo brother just had a stroke from smoking/drinking, he didn't miss a beat as far as smoking goes, so he apparently didn't hear the 2-minute warning. Tobacco is an addiction worse than heroin and if the dealers need to be punished by less profit, my heart goes out to them.

OK, but the US taxpayer will get some payback from spending on education, but blowing $500billion and counting, plus more than 3,000 lives, on an unnecessary war has not produced anything of value to the nation as a whole. Maybe you should take a look at the money being spent on the optional war you support. Kallend, just a couple of examples of your replies from the past few days. The topics being discussed have nothing to do with the war in Iraq, yet the war always seems to get invoked...why? We're talking about gov spending, HOW THE FUCK IS MILITARY SPENDING NOT AN ISSUE? The #2 spender spends 1/9th of what we do and that DOES NOT account for the war. If we counted that they might spend 1/15th. And you want to ignore it....how convenient.

Yeah, taking the money other people besides yourself have earned to help the poor. Very compassionate. I'd rather my money was taken to help the poor than to kill tens of thousands in an immoral war. The former leads to a better society, the latter to more wars, more deficit spending, etc. And some wonder why we have so much class envy / class hate.

Yeah, taking the money other people besides yourself have earned to help the poor. Very compassionate. This ridiculous concept that raising my taxes to and establishing welfare programs is soehow robin hood is so 7th grade. To help you understand briefly how it works, we have been a debtor nation since 1840, so it isn;t from my pocket to theirs, we are still paying for wars and social spending our wonderful formr presidents accrued from 10's of decades ago. As for spending, we spend ~550B per year on basic military, not counting wars, so shall we look to that and all that corp welfare? QUESTION: How is it that we have the fewest social programs of industrialized nations, yet are going in debt? If social spending is the sword thru the heart of of any countries economy, then how does Canada, GB, etc give so much to their people, yet still are able to kick the balls out of our dollar and not rack a debt the way we do? ANSWER: We almost match the world n military spending: 45/55. Yet some people are so distracted by social svs..... wonder why we are such a depraved country?

My choice would be Edwards, but he might be vice at best. I'll take Hillary tho. Obama would also work. It will be Hillary and Edwards I'm sure.

I'm still waiting, just waiting to read your supporting assertions. I asked you to provide examples and I get this? WTF, post em with explanations as to why she is so bad.

Actually that statement disagreeswith his, he said he merely analyzed my assertions, not supported his own. To be a good cheerleader you must follow the thread more closely.

>>>>>>>>No. It just shows again how I defend the rich and seek to leave the homeless and the children to die. Well, you do disavow any tax increases to help poor people, yes? You can't do that and still pretend to be compassionate. Oh, I get it, you want low taxes so when those impoverished and homeless become millionaires their tax code will be set to help them, I see. >>>>>>>>>>Just another example of my persistent defense of Bush - the same Bush I described as taking power in a government that was already fucked up and fucking it up even more. Forget Bush, you defend most things Republican.....proof / pudding. >>>>>>>>>>You'd think that he'd agree with me, but that constitutes my vigorous defense of MY president. Doesn't matter if I agree or not, all I read is about those GD taxes and employers looking for a free ride.

Take off your cheerleading uniform, his point is invalid. Read how I used Affirmative Defense, then put your cheerleading uniform back on as if you understand a thing about the law.

No, it's simply a defense of "not true." An affirmative defense is the same thing as saying, "Even if everything they say is true, I win because xxxx." For example, the statute of limitations for a breach of an oral contract is two years in California. If a plaintiff alleges a breach of an oral agreement, and the defendant proves that the breach occurred in 2004 (hence the "affirmative" part) then he wins. You are mixing terminology. Please make sure you are correct when making corrections. It increases your credibility. Hardly, an Affirmative Defense is simply a defense where the defendant bears the burden of proof, that 's how I was using it.

I swear, your timing is perfect Yea, esp since I called the party a bunch of Nazis, not any one person.

>>>>>>>>Lucky to call someone on this forum a Nazi is disingenous, callous, shitty and deserving of a slap down. If you bothered to read anything but one post at a time you would have understood that lawrocket was referring to Republicans as Nazis, I was agreeing. I didn't call, nor did Lawrocket call anyone here a Nazi. Perhaps a little help with reading and interpretation would be nice for you. Do I need to go back and post the origin of the statements, or will you concede that you fucked up again? >>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe you might want to retract that statement. Why, I agreed tha the Repuke Party has been Nazis for 3 decades. So what, not directed at any peopole here, just your loyal captain, Bush and Co. >>>>>>>>>That is one of the most vile things you could say about someone. Who did I write it to? The Repub Party? >>>>>>>>I may say it about the hildebeast, but she has really earned it, the woman believes she is the most fair minded and liberal thinking person who ever lived, so fair in fact that she can decide which of us should be able to keep our god given, constitutionally gauranteed rights. From the party that wiretaps and then tries to immunize telecom co's for helping. Perhaps tell us how she has tried to cut away at your rights? Exampls, not hysterical emotion based upon incorret facts as you posted above.

Another worthless one-liner from you, care to address this? ------What if they honestly fuck the country into the ground, does that make then noble? Even if the Repukes never lied, they have fucked the country into the ground as of the last 2 years or so, care to debate that? (HINT: provide examples)

I am sorry my sig line hits so close to home In any event, I am not surprised you do not understand why I use it Sure, it hits home by virtue of the part about you looking in the mirror