Lucky...

Oh, did I forget currency devaluation? Clinton left: $1 US = $1.55 Canadian Now: even steven..... do the math and against the pound or the euro, nevermind

Must be very comforting for you to think that while you pay nearly $4/gallon for gas, watch house prices slumping, and growth rate < rate of inflation. 2 consecutive quarters of GDP contraction is not the only metric for identifying recessions. According to the economists at the National Bureau of Economic Research, a recession is defined as a "significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months." By their methodology -- and they are the official arbiters of such things -- this is a recession. Well there we have it folks.. Mr kallend has stated there is a ression and so it must be so. Why, cause he has appointed himself the officail arbiter of all of this, , ,,, I guess So you are not paying close to $4 for gas? You would come over much better if you stated you own views. I think we are in a recession, just look at the data. What do you think, you are so focused on proving certain folks wrong that you can't present credible arguments. The left needs there to be ression for the upcoming elections. See the posts above of who make the deterimination and how. Now, you prove there IS a ression since is seems to be so important to you that there is one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The left needs there to be ression for the upcoming elections. Really? You mean McSame, 95% of GWB, could win on: http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushresume.htm - Mortgage disaster - 10T debt (from 5.5T 8 years prior) - $4 gas - Multiple mortage co meltdowns w/gov rescue imminent - Scooter Libby scandal, pardon to come soon\ - Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period - Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market - Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period - Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history - of course he is one - Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans - There are plenty more products of the right wing........ Do you really think it matters if a recession is officially announced? Get real.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A republican could do it; that does not make it conservative. (Indeed, a republican DID do it.) Right, because the Republicans were the liberals in the 1860's..... a concept that most can't understand.

The parties could help if they were forced to come up with new names. Given that we started with the Democratic-Republican party in the 18th Century... The ideologies would be the same, just a new name. We need to depart from this concept that corporate America is here to help us....quite a pathetic principal embraced by what we now call the Republican Party.

You're welcome ... I try.

Everyone thinks they're a better than average driver, and the worst ones are least likely to notice. If you want a thread about privacy violations, open your own thread. It isn't germane to this topic. Be sure to include information about how China controls its ISPs. Shhhhhh, the educated people are speaking (in retalition for your remark a couple posts up). Thread title: China: Elderly women to be 're-educated' for Olympic protest The dialogue was about the suck factor of China, several people reminded that side of the discussion that the US has a suck factor, now, in good American fashion you want to suppress the mention of an area of US suckyness (Bush word). Tough shit. My remark is in line with this thread. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Be sure to include information about how China controls its ISPs. Since you agree that my interjection is in line with this thread by your answering of my point, the US controls ISP's thru free monitoring via immunized telecom companies. You can jump up and down, try to remove my assertions from the thread, hang US flags around your desk and sing the Pledge of Allegiance, but the fact is that the US engages in some of the same tactics that China does. Let's face it, to find worse countries, we need to go to Asia, to find better ones we go to Europe. America isn't the worst in the world, just not the best.

Classical liberalism, yes. Liberals of the 1800s opposed slavery and were part of the early Republican Party. At the time the Democrats were the conservative party. The Southern rural Democrats of the 1800s supported slavery - they were the (staunch) conservatives (maintaining tradition) of the time. The Northern Democrats tended to support States rights, which was something of a 'cop-out,' as northern States had outlawed slavery by the early 1800s. (I would argue that economics were just as much a motivator as normatives {i.e., “ethics/morals”}. Northern industry was not dependent on slave labor, and workers in the north didn't want competition from the South/competition from freed slaves). When it was founded the Republican Party most strongly resembled a liberalist political philosophy & a fairly radical one at that! Liberalism as tending to be concerned with equality and civil, political, and personal liberties and more willing to challenge traditional assumptions or ways of doing things. (In contrast to being supportive of long-standing institutions and favoring slow, prudent change, if any change at all.) When the Republican Party was founded back in the 1850s, it wasn’t just anti-slavery. The slogan of the first Republican Presidential nominee was “Free soil, free labor, free speech, free men.” Early Republican activists were pro-universal education, pro-technology, supported growth of cities and institutions (federal, i.e., the progenitor of the Federal Reserve & the first income tax; state; and private for progressive growth), supported universal suffrage (i.e., women), also opposed polygamy and alcohol, supported what were early experiments in early rights of workers, e.g., see Lincoln’s Speech on Free Labor vs. Slave Labor (full test available through the "Lincoln Log”) sounds almost ... (& I don my asbestos underwear here) Marxist. Obviously Lincoln was not a Marxist ... and not just because of the whole time dilation issue. He was, however, a radical Republican! (He also was the only US President thus far to have been granted a patent.) Originally the Democratic Party was the party of the anti-federalists (anti-“Big government”), pro-States rights, rural, and strict interpretationalists of the Constitution (constructivists) in opposition to the pro-federalists, pro-interpretationalist, urban, progressives (Federalists). Things change, eh? VR/Marg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Liberals of the 1800s opposed slavery and were part of the early Republican Party. At the time the Democrats were the conservative party. Thank you. Absolutely correct. I don't think most on here have the capacity to understand how political parties change sides over decades/centuries. Traditionally, the Southerners hated big city slickers and other than whites, as well hated a centralized government. As we entered the 20th century and after the Great Depression when FDR brought in social programs, Southerners adhered to these programs yet still hated minorities and big city slickers. The 1964 Civil Rights Act as signed by Pres Johnson drove away these Yellow Dog Democrats from the Dem Party and only 2 Dems have been elected president since: Carter and Clinton, both from the South. This describes the Democratic Party progression. I believe the sides changed, that is the Republicans went from the good guys to the bad around the trun of the century. I would have to do more research to get a better answer, but that seems like a good ballpark. Considering other than all US presidents have been Republicans from Lincoln untill 1913 Wilson, except for Grover Cleveland who seved twice, the Republican Party morphed somewhere in there and the Great Depression was preceded by 2 terms of Republicans after Wilson left office. Moral of the story: the Republican Party IS the problem today and the voters will adjust for that.

Here, I'll walk thru the process for you: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberalism lib·er·al·ism 1. the quality or state of being liberal, as in behavior or attitude. 2. a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties. 3. (sometimes initial capital letter) the principles and practices of a liberal party in politics. 4. a movement in modern Protestantism that emphasizes freedom from tradition and authority, the adjustment of religious beliefs to scientific conceptions, and the development of spiritual capacities. Here's my emphasis: ...and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties. So, The Emancipation Proclaimation wasn't about liberalism? OK, whatever works for ya. Really the Civil War had more to do with unification of the entire country than anything, slavery was just a symbol. As for Lincoln being a conservative, therfore was more able to adhere to the US Const - irrelevant. Interpretation of a vaguely written document is non-partisan. The point I was making is that emancipation from slavery is about a liberal concept, emancipation from any tyranical authority is liberal; don't care if you don't like the definition.....dictionary must be a liberal conspiracy.

Hush - the adults are talking. Uh, I bet I'm quite a bit older and more educated than are you, junior. Why not address it? Here it is again for you: How about the warrantless wiretaps and the subsequent immunization of telecom companies? We are no bastion of liberty, so clean your windows first, then cast stones at theirs.

Been getting your facts and figures from Kallend again, I see... You're right, only abouy 9.8T, as if that's a biggy, right? Funny how the neo-cons quit this, 'tax-n-spend' rhetoric idiocy.....

When are you going stop worrying about image and then living in denial that you actually like McCain? Then start worrying about substance. ..... Oh, never....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Name ONE of Obama's Congressional accomplishments He's not GB, McCain or any other neo-con.

Importance of Intelligence Confidentiality Scotter Libby The Importance of theNational Debt: not just a number. The Republican Party Healthcare for everyone The Republican Party Neat and Tidy Felatio Monica Lewinsky ABC's: guide to preschool grammar George Bush How to Marry Smart Laura Bush

LOL like a MF!!!!! Followed up with a sequel: Emergency Procedures in Skydiving: know your handles. Canopy control for beginners

Indepth understanding of US Politics BillyVance

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The GOP has huge issues. But I think that the GOP has been fairly settled for the time being. There is no longer the "party leader" with the cult of personality. GWB - he's a lame duck who is trying to pass the torch to someone else. Gone are the days of Gingrich. There just isn't anyone else that strong in the GOP anymore. So they've all been tried, convicted and commuted (soon to be pardoned), but at least removed from the GOP? Or are they still tapping around in a restroom near you? The Republican protocol is still the same, just another Bush 95%er waiting to see ifhe can hit 15T on the debt before the end of his 1st term, so what are you saying? The mob has what appears to be most of its thugs either quit or run out of Dodge, but the protocol is as string as ever, just waiting for more, "strong" personalities to apply its BS and be/stay right where it is. Hey LR, it matters not who runs right now for the Dems, this is Novenmebr 1976 comming up again, the GOP criminal scum has hit its level of intolerability and the people aren't asking what McCain is all about, they want to end the run of sameness and McCain represents that sameness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The infighting is therefore not going to be that bad with the GOP. Who else is there? The lockstepped GOP doesn't infight, quit the posturing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>It's ridiculous to consider it so important when there has been one president since Ike with any grooming at all in it - and he lasted one term. Exactly. It's like saying a football team doesn't have playoff experience, when the rules are exactly the same for the playoff as for regular season.

With a diaper change he's good to go for another 5 hours.

So how many old ladys have we imprisoned in the last year for applying for a permit? Quit acting like we are NAZIS!!!!!! If you dont like America then please move and make it a better place! I will buy your ticket! Ignorant liberals just bash this great country when all they should be doing is moving since they dont like anything we do! Yea, the ~10 trillion dollar debt, virtually al the doing of the right, is just a talking point. We.... liberals? Uh, you act as tho "we" as in conservatives is the norm, and liberals are the exception. Get real and see that Dems were in control about as much as the Repubs in the 20th century. As well, liberalism has been shown to be a good thing. The Revolutionary War, Emancipation Proclaimation, Civil Rights Era are examples of liberalism.......

Hardly a defense, but I do think we sometimes lack a certain perspective on where we ourselves are in those terms and while we might not imprison a lot of old ladies for applying for permits, we certainly have imprisoned a number of people just based on the color of their skin. Good stuff for the World Weekly News. You can blather on about perspective while the rest of us see the obvious difference. The Bush Administration had been holding people indefinitely as enemy combatants based on potentially flimsy evidence, and the Court has started to slap them back for it. The bigger concern is not the profiling, but that the AG never gets around to charging them, let alone convicting. China is imprisoning people for applying for a permit to protest. There's no ambiguiety of their intention, or potential that the two ladies will start a war. How about the warrantless wiretaps and the subsequent immunization of telecom companies? We are no bastion of liberty, so clean your windows first, then cast stones at theirss.

Hardly a defense, but I do think we sometimes lack a certain perspective on where we ourselves are in those terms and while we might not imprison a lot of old ladies for applying for permits, we certainly have imprisoned a number of people just based on the color of their skin. Or class, more importantly.

so how many of the 2.3M were jailed for applying for a permit? We don't even jail felons that try to buy a gun through normal channels. I eagerly await your next defense for China. BTW, a one year labor camp sentence for a 79yo probably is a death sentence. I guess their problem about being evicted goes away. He's not defending CHina, just bringing some reality to the conversation. China sucks, but the US is no bastion of freedom and liberty either.

There is no prompt on a ballaot for voting against a candidate, so get out of the closet and proclaim your love of McCain. 3rd choice - abstain.

I like his annunciation of, "troops." It's, "troopsh." I'm waiting for him to break out with, "pork chops and applesauce."

Exactly. I am not voting for McCain, rather I am voting against Obama. Nooooooooooo, you are voting for McCain, you could abstain as a 3rd choice.

Which just reinforces the need for good leadership. That's a joke, right? The truth to lead at that level will be tested IF that person is elected. The evidence to lead has been established already thru his senatorial performance.