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Remember that when you look at other mug shots and pictures of movie stars... It's easy to look at a mug shot and think "he must be guilty." Wendy W. That is why the Media is so wonderful. They can take a picture of a wholesome (guy/girl), then find a photo of when they look terrible and it makes all the difference in public opinions. (BTW- most of the celebrities are guilty of the stupid shit they pull and from the article this lady is obviously guilty of being psychotic) She drove 1000 miles to confront a lady of being interested/sleeping with a man that isn't even her own lover or husband (yeah...shes married). Look in the dictionary- thats the definition of PSYCHO. Unless your a total sociopath, like Tom Delay. That cold blodded bastard smiled like it was his birthday in his mug shot. I agree about this chick in the bedroom. I bet she's freaking wild. I bet she's wishing she would have done without the diapers now though. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Don't misunderstand me. (it's hard because there are so many issues addressed here). I would never punish a doctor criminally for the 'shit happens' issues, or small oversights. What I am proposing is ending the cash cow of malpractice lawsuits and the associated costs to doctors and patients. With that protection gone, there would need to be additional protections. There would need to be better and more serious looks by review boards at careless mistakes that result in serious suffering. The way things stand now, those boards rarely take action. Criminal liability would be the last resort, and saved for the very worst cases. This would save good doctors and their patients lots of money. Your case of the improvised chest tube would not even get a second look. the result speaks for itself. When I fixed avionics on fighter jets in the gulf war, we were sometimes forced to improvise with non-standard parts to get the plane into the fight. None of our aircraft were grounded, and none got shot down. We didn't get punished - they gave us medals. On my comments about curing disease, I was referring to the business of drug reseaech, marketing, and sales, not doctors. I have nothing against doctors. Seriously. I'm just searching for answers to very difficult questions. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I most certainly DID NOT. I was simply saying that primitive medicine men didn't get into the field for a big payday. I was saying, mostly to the "free market" folks, that doctors are driven by more factors than simple economics. I used the medicine man argument to counter the incorrect claims that without big paychecks there would be no doctors. If you find out your doctor went into medicine for the money, run. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

But my knee is already jerking like crazy!!! -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

And that Jesus was a liberal. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Send 20,000 more troops!!! Oops....sorry. Wrong issue. Me too, which is why I started the thread. So far, the answer from the right seems to be "not fixable, the poor are screwed, so shut up. It's a free market." I have superb health care myself. Maybe I should stop giving a shit....... -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You have totally missed my point on this subject. Totally. I stand by everything I have said. Maybe 'Thou dost protest too much'?? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Well, they are not bullshit, simply because you disagree. They are simply opinions. As far as taking things personally, I have been insulted, as well as my sister )the pregnant girl I mentioned earlier, but did not identify), but tried to stay on topic. I don't know who here is a doctor or lawyer, so there is nothing directed at any individual. And my comparison of doctors and medicine men, in the context I framed it, and for the reasons stated, is a perfectly fair analogy. Now, don't you have some leaches to apply or cuppings, or pressure relief holes to drill into skulls or something? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

That's what I was thinking. Except that deployment would cause the deepest penetration ever followed by the most painful detachment of genitals possible. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249659,00.html I guess we can end the debate now that the only fair and balanced news source on the planet has reported the truth. Finally! -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Whoa there Nelly! Taking this discussion personally are we? Chill the fuck out. I was not the one saying that financial gain is the main reason for the actions of doctors and eveyone else in the "free market." That is what others were saying. I was actually defending those who heal by saying that there must be some other motivation besides money, and therefore money is not the end all be all in the equation. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

My comparison is fair, and yours is not. The medicine man of the past is the doctor of today. He used the best practices of the day, just as doctors now do. In 100 years the medicine of today will likely be looked at as extremely primitive. And I never advocated a return to medicine men. I was simply illustrating the lack of financial gain as the sole motivation to help the sick. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I'm talking about a society where one human being cares about another, and may be willing to forego a new diamond for the vault so that someone else might get health care, or an education. Maybe you should read "The Duty of Civil Disobedience" and do something about it. Really? Buying heating oil so you don't freeze to death is voluntary? (see record Exxon profits) Buying food is voluntary? Your economic reality. There are options, to a degree. I guess you're referring to the theories about man being greedy, and inherently evil? I'n neither. Healing the sick is the incentive. Did the unpaid village medicine man in centuries past do it for the money? No. The world can change, we just have to be willing to change it. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Why is it that when you take from the rich and give to the poor it's "redistribution of wealth" but when you take from the poor and give to the rich it's a "free market econmy"? It's freaking bizarro Robin Hood economics. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Anyone who saw those "devices" and thought they were a bomb is obviously a complete and total idiot. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

FEEDING them is not the problem. The problem is a pregnancy costs between 5-$30,000 in hospital bills. By your sick logic, only the rich or those with great coverage should have children. This person did not want to quit her job, but it was the only way to pay the bills and get any kind of care for her unborn child. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

It prevents him from harming other people and punishes his negligence. This is why we have jails. Putting wife beaters in jail doesn't make their wife's bruises heal any faster, but they still go to jail. Good idea. Costs would be less. No marketing, no big executives, no free lunches for doctors, no more waiting in doc offices while reps detail them about drugs. We limit them already. There are many laws governing what drug makers can and cannot say about their product. For instance, they cannot talk about off-label uses. FUCKING GREAT IDEA!! Profit needs to be removed as a health care incentive. I know someone who just got pregnant and had no health care. She quit her job to get free care. With her job, her and her husband made JUST over the limit where free care kicked in. I'd rather she work and help pay the bill. Look, there are many, many more ways than two. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

No lawyers in my thread. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

In my next post I'll outline how we can put an end to this bullshit as well. All we need is a big building, some beakers, a bunsen burner, and about 500 nerdy scientists. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Yes. For those lucky enough to have good health coverage, it is great. It's still not a cure. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

When someone cures cancer, it won't be for a ROI. Maybe that's why medicine is no linger curing diseases, only treating them. It's more profitable, and tackling the easy maladies for a quick buck make good financial sense. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Medicine and health care should not be treated like guns and butter. Everyone who can pay. ANNNNND....we're back around to the entitlements issue, again.... No. We are on the fundamental human rights issue. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Medicine and health care should not be treated like guns and butter. Everyone who can pay. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Isn't this unrealistic? There would be no doctor anywhere... EVERY doc is human, by nature, we screw up. We do our damnest not to, but it happens. The mistakes I've made have been little (miscopying a glasses prescription, grabbing the wrong power contact lens, etc.), certainly nothing I'd ever be sued over, but that's why I only pay $600/year in malpractice while ob/gyns, pediatricians, orthopeds pay very nearly 6 figures in malpractice insurance per year. Should you lose 'everything' if you make a mistake at your job too? To say 'lose everything' is a bit extreme. I would say that the bar would need to be raised substantially, so that any cases brought to trial would be those that were true 'criminal neglect.' I mean things like removing the wrong limb or organ, or blatant disregard for the results of actions that could easily have been avoided. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Actually, they find that many people watch these commercails and find themselves questioning issues they never gave any thought to before.... "Mhhh.... well, my shits could be a little more regular. Maybe I DO need Zelnorm." "I had trouble getting to sleep last night. Hey....what's this Ambien stuff? Might as well try it!" Etc, etc. And yes, I would opt for government research and development of new drugs. As far as costs to taxpayers, overall it would be much cheaper. Health care costs would be lower becuase you are removing the marketing/business aspect and focusing on the science. That savings would more than make up for any increase in taxes. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.