irishrigger

hi diablopilot, i have to strongly disagree with your statement that you made.in my opinion,the skyhhook had nothing to do with this fatality what so ever! the skyhook never interfered with anything at all. in my opinion the split lanyard might have contributed to the incident,disconnecting the left riser,the pull came form the wrong side as the reserve fell out of the tray.the skyhook did not open the reserve container,nor did the skyhook force the reserve free bag out of the container,it was gravity and a sudden and stop shock as the main inflated. so in my opinion,the skyhook was not a contributing factor,but saying that,if the cutaway cable not going through the split lanyard,the main might have stayed connected and the out come could have been different and the TM could have dealt with that. rodger

It would not have happened without the skyhook which leads me to believe it was a skyhook related incident. In almost every case if something solves one problem it has the potential of creating different problem/s. Having crawled out on the wheel of a Cessna many times I know it is very easy to bump your rig against the wing or door. I have to disagree with you sparky regarding this incident, it was not the skyhook that caused this incident, it was the RSL,to me there is a big difference between the 2.it was the RSL that was snagged on the door.not the skyhook itself,yes the lanyard is attached to the RSL,but that has nothing to do with it. the question is would this incident have happend if that guy had NO RSL? so does that mean we should all remove our RSL incase it gets snagged somewhere? I will admit that i am a big supporter of the RSL and Skyhook,and so long as it is stored and secured correctly it should not cause a problem and is safe. on that incident it look to me that the RSL was not tucked away correctly in the first place,it was sticking out and thats how it managed to get snagged. just my 2 cents worth rodger

i have to agree with master rigger,the line trim seems to be way out.so its not suprising if yoou where getting some funky opening on it. you might also check the grommets on your slider to see if there is any sharp edges or burrs on them.i had that happen to me on my canopy last year. so a reline and possiby a new slider should solve that problem very quick. also send those pics to PD,but i think they will give you the same answer. cherrio rodger

i have to agree that they are tops when it comes to customer service.they replace almost everything free of charge.and very quick too. i accidently droped my dytter out of my helmet ono the grass in the landing area.lots of rain that night and got destroyed when we found it 4 days later. i emailed the to see if it could be repaired,got a reply that they would replace it free of charge!!! had it 2 days later!!!! no questions asked. they guys are awesome and rock rodger

i have quiet a few tandem reserve rides(20+),and no i am not chop happy either,just been very unlucky in some cases.and i havent packed any of those myself! i also find that the vtr-360 does a rock and roll+stall opening in certain situations.normally when cuting away from an almost perfect canopy(broken steering line for example) and especially if you have a SKYHOOK! in the old days before the skyhook,you would have maybe 2sec seconds before the canopy would start to inflate,but with the skyhook that is down to almost .4 of a sec.so you havent had much time to build up some speed.and hence this horrible opening. when i have been flung aroung the sky( line over or tension know)i dont seem to have the problem. but when i teach the new guys i drill that in to them and it can be scary indeed.you need to be quick of your mark to get on the reserve riser or brakes depending on the situation. but i am glad to say i always had a great and soft landing on the vector reserve.indeed to many landings actually.and hopefully something i will not have to do again! i wonder also if riggers are rolling the nose of the tandem reserve??? my 2cents rodger

I think people are getting confused here with the Skyhook and RSL.maybe people dont understand the difference or how it is supposed to work. from what i saw on the video,it was the RSL that was snagged,not the red skyhook lanyard.most of that red lanyard is stowed under the reserve flaps! or that is where it should be stowed! there should be less than 1 inch sticking out under the reserve flap. but i think where this issue was caused was that the RSL itself was not stowed correctly.the RSL should not be exposed anywhere near the yolk,it should be stowed under the reserve flap or riser cover! we have over 30 vector rigs here with skyhook and everytime i pack a reserve or do a gear check i make sure that no RSL is exposed around the back. as for the skyhook it is connected to the end of the RSL and attached to the middle of your reserve bridle,and should not cause a problem what so ever! i am just relieved that this was not another fatal incident andfrom this video,this guy was indeed very lucky,it sure is one hell of a video and story,but i feel it should have been prevented by paying attention to detail and more careful on the climbout. so hopefully we never have to see anything like that again!!! my heart certainly stoped for a sec on seeing this video blue skies rodger

vow,very interesting video indeed. i never thought it be possible that one would for get to throw the drogue!!! well there goes that thoug out the window but i do agree that normal standern procedure werent followed, a tandem master should always check to make sure that the drogue has inflates correctly,i dont see in the video that he ever looked up and behind. also his reserve drill also leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion,he should have reacted quicker to the situation and pulled the reserve handle manually a lot sooner. personally my hard deck is 3000',i would have carried out my emergency procedure at that stage. good job by the cypres unit and also nice bit of flying by the camera man!!!!!

i also like to add my 2 cents to this issue.i been a tandem i/e and rigger for a long time.and i have jumped muntiple tandem systems.vector,sigma,strong,next, atom,racer etc i worked in new zealand where they where using strong systems,and i had a couple of issues,which gave me serious concerns.i emailed ted strong directly and got a detailed reply with in hours of sending it.ted strong gave me a lot of useful information.and he send out the spare parts for the mod that needed to be done free of charge.i also riased a couple of concerns that i had regarding the system,but ted and strong enterprises along with bill morrissey at the time,where always very professional and helpful and quick in there reply. they were always very helpful and upfront and never tried to hide anything in my opinion.and one should always go to the manufacturer directly with any concerns that thye have. i am strong rated and done close to 1000 jumps on strong systems.yes they are sometimes high maintenance,and you def need to be very alert and switched on when doing the gear checks,as there is a lot more to check in my opinion.and i have had 3 reserve rides on strongs,and i have quiet a few on vtr-360. i personally prefere the vtr reserves.but saying that the strong reserves also got me and my passenger to the ground safely.and i find the sigma a lot more comfatable than the strong systems.but saying all that i still would jump a strong system as i would have complete faith in it.but given the choice i would prefere a sigma. and tom noonan mentioned the fatality ratio,and yes most of the fatalities could and should have been prevented.it was indeed human error. but i have a question,how many of those fatalities could have been prevented a proper gear inspection on the ground before hand. every manfacturer tries to build a perfect system that is (no offence) idiot proof. but human error just continues to throw curve balls.the recent fatality involving the sigma that led to the mod being done.i bet no one thought that was possible or case that could happen.but it did. personally i am not convinced that the rsl and skyhook and the reserve falling out resulting in the main being cut away was the cause.but it was investigated and they tried too prevent it from happening again. but there will always be something new or something that never happend before that will end up in a fatality that will scratch our heads. so,i believe that ted strong and SE have always acted in a professional manor and where always very helpfull.and i dont think they deserve this sort of bad cyber attack from anybody.i do believe that it is way out of line. rodger killeen

its really sad news to hear that jim had passed away.it was jim who picked me up at the airport in tampa,on my first visit to h-hills,and he made me feel very welcome indeed on my trips to zhills. he will be sorely missed by all of the irish bomb squad!! RIP Phantom see you on the other side. all your friends from ireland

the most saves i had in a day was 5.but also had couple days with 4 saves a piece.! it seemed that day like it was raining freebags,non of them where intentional or in a wrap.last year alone i had 60 saves in a year.that is a very high return in my opinion.and some of it is scary. sofar i 2650 reserve pack jobs,and as of last weekend i clocked up my 200 document save! just a pity that i dont drink because i got quiet a few bottles of alcohol for consumtion!

yes you have a right to be pissed off at that kind of service.personally i cant understand how it would take 18 months to build one container. but there has been many issues raised regarding there customer service,and i am suprised you havent heard of them before. i have had a couple issues with them before myself.a guy from out club had a mal,lost his handles ,and had to wait 7 months for replacements! 7 months! and they charged his credit card 2 days after the order was placed!!! one jumpre send his canopy back for a reline,was charged a huge amount and when i went to hook it up ,i did the usual inspection on it,and found that a D-line had been bartacked around the stabeliser! which would have cause a spinning malfunction.i emailed them about it,it took nearly 3 weeks for a reply.and they never even apologised for that!!! i agree with crashtest, stay well away from PDF there service and customer care is indeed the very worst i have ever come across in my life! and i beleive that you have no hope in hell of ever getting a apology from them,never mind a public one at that on this forum. me thinks you have a better chance that aliens will land on our planet first rodger

again i agree that pic 2 is not really an issue. i looks to me that the closing loop might be a bit long.i have seen this on a few occasion before.as long as the material on the bottom does not come out by it self,it should be fine. i store most of the PC material under the bottom flap when i pack a javelin.i try to make a gap in the free bag where i can palce the material so that it doesnt slip out the side.and if you have the right lenght closing loop,it should not escape out the side of the bottom flap. rodger

yes i can also see that it goes through the cutter. but it be interesting to find out if the loop would be cut in that situation. normally the loop would go through the middle of the cutter,in this case with the loop being so tight against the very inside edge of it.the cutter might not be able to cut the loop cleanly? be interesting to find out what airtec would say about this. also other people opinion if the loop would be cut. rodger

i have also come across a case like this,it is indeed a sloppy packjob,but i also agree that it would propably slip off on deployment. but looking at the pic further,(although not a great pic),it looks to me like the closing loop is looped around the cutter??? and its not very clear,but did the loop actually go through the cutter itself? i always closely inspect a reserve on opening,to see if there is anything untowards with it. well spotted and hopefully we wont find anymore of these things. blue skies rodger

i dont see what sort of canopy it is,i see pd mentioned alright. it def sounds like that the brake line has schrunk considerably.best thing to do get your local rigger to inspect it.he will be able to tell you if the canopy is out of trim.it sounds to me that it is! i think PD have a tolerance off 2" allowance and then advise to reline the canopy, 300 jumps is not a big no on a line set,i would expect 400-450 jumps out of a line set. question for youhow often do you take the twists out of you brake ine when you pack? i have found that people that dont do this that there lines shrink a lot faster over a period of time. also there should be no need to send the canopy back to the manufacturer,your rigger should be able to order a line set and put them on for you. blue skies and safe landings rodger

personally i would not order a atom container,we have quiet a few in our club here in ireland.most people like theres very much and its nice and comfy. my problem with them is there after sales service.it is almost non exsistend.i tried to order a replacement freebag for a customer and he had to wait almost 5 months for it.i had to order spare cutaway and reserve handles for an atom,6 months later they eventually arrived.one skydiver send a blue track back to them for a relinehe got it back after 3 months and who ever did the job over there managed to bar tack a d-line on the outside of a stabilser line! i was glad that i hung the canopy up for the assembly,it was very easy to see the mistake that way.no one here in ireland has orderd a new atom in the last 5 years because waiting times were uo to 12 months and there after sales are the worst i have ever seen. just my two cents worth

it was shocking to hear this news about debbie.i had many visits to zhills in recent times along with several other irish jumpers.and i was very fortunate to meet debbie while i was there.she had a fantastic personality and i always remember her smile.she was very warm hearted and always gave me a smile and a hug evry time i saw her. she will be dearly missed. our sincerest sympathy to her family and friends from all of us here in ireland that had the pleasure of meeting this wonderful lady. you might be gone but will never be forgotten by the irish(bomb squad) as we were known over there. blue skies Rodger Irish Parachute Club

we had the pleasure of meeting Dan on our dropzone in ireland at the Irish Parachute Club. he always had a smile on his face and was a very friendly, nice and down to earth character. even though he only visited us on a few occasions he left a lasting impression on all of us. our sincerest sympathy to all his family and friends at his deadful time. even though he might be gon,he will always be rememberd and never forgotten in our thoughts! Rodger IPC

hiya, i have seen simular damage before on a couple risers,and i also think it is line burn.i dont believe that this much damage could be caused by collapsing the slider after opening. what i found in my cases was incorrect stowage of the risers during the packing.how do you place the risers into the container? also how much slack lines do you leave out? have you any damage to the bottom of your reserve tray on the corners? if you have i suspect that the risers have not been placed down the side of the container.and the lines should be neatly s-folded on the bottom of the tray. with about 16-18" of slack. can you let me know what the main and container is? and please inspect inside the pack tray and the bottom edges of you reserve tray for simular damage.if there is you have your answer. its hard to see how much damage is actually done to the riser,for peace of mind i would get a rigger to have a look at them,just to be sure. rodger

hi, the all black webbing,which i suspect has a seperate line of tread running down the middle of it is type 8 webbing,the one with 2 yellow stripes along the edges is type 7.they have different breaking strains,type 7 is 6000 and type 8 4000lbs.so most manufactures upgraded to the stronger material. rodger

I put SR1's (the reserve/tandem slinks) on my current rig, which has Type 8 risers in addition to the Dacron lines (Sabre 2) just something that caught my eye. reserve/tandem slinks??? i wasnt aware that you could use slinks on a tandem on either the main or reserve??? i thought that was forbidden? has anyone tried or jumped with slinks on the tandem?? i be very interested in finding that out cheers rodger

hiya, get a tape measure and measure the lenght of the webbing,that will give you the over all lenght of the riser.manufactures have standard lenghts between normally 18-22" risers. i agree you should be able to reach the slider with your risers.but definitly make sure that youare able to reach the toogles no matter what i had one lady customer here that had trouble reaching her standard 20" risers.she was small and had short arms.i got her a 16 riser instead and all is good for her now. swoopers tend to go for bigger risers like 24-25-26" risers.it helps them with there glide and better swoop.as it helps them to flaten out the canopy that bit more.but i would not recommend that unless you are well expierienced swooper,as it can change the stalling point of a canopy. and its a good question,you can learn good stuff on this site,and normally you get a reliable answer. cherrio

before i became a rigger myself,i always asked the more expirienced jumpers about a good rigger to use.there is certainly a lot of good riggers out there who do a very professional job. unfortuntaly there is also some yahoo's and cowboys out there,and as this forum shows sometimes,mistakes are made by riggers.most mistakes are normally caught at the next repack by a different rigger and because the person was lucky enough not to have a cutaway. i personally have done 2400 reserves repacks andhave 175 saves from those.

hi brettski, sorry you had to expirience such a wacker of an opening.hope you ok after it. in my view,the reasons for a very hard opening come down packing.couple scenarios are possible.the slider was not quarterd correctly.it should be packed right up against the slider stops.also a cause for hard openings is line dump.where your lines properbly secured and stowed? you should have no or very very little slack on the lines.do your rubber bands or tube stows? i have done over a 1000 jumps on sabres,and only once did i have a hard opening.it was packed by a packer abd managed to blow 2 cells out just before i roll the tail,i make sure that the slider is down all the way agaist the slider stops and i pull the slider out an couple extra inches in front of the nose.i also dont roll the tail very tight.i see a lot of people that roll the tail really tight about 8-10 times.that is to much in my opinion.i loosely roll my tail,so that is has a chance to open nicely. another option is what kind of pilot chute are you using? cold it be to big for the canopy? have you checked your kill line? could it have shrunk to much? have you rigger check that out.it only takes a couple sec to do that. it sounds like it was line burn,sometimes you dont see evidence of that,but that i the likely cause in my opinion. hope you dont have to expirience that sort of an opening againI rodger

hi, hard to see from the pic,but i can't see any markings to see if they are correctly set..check the line trim with PD.and i would definitley finger trap the excess.in some cases if there is too much,i cut maybe 4-5" of the excess so that i can get a nice smooth fingertrap. also on the pic,i think the velcro keeper is in the incorrect position,it should be under neath the toggle, not above it. personally i modify the toggles to be velcroless.and you need a master riggers ticket for that i believe. in my opionion PD have the best reserves out there,the one draw back,i have with them is the line they use.if i am correct its untreated microline 825, and that and velcro dont mix very well.i have come across several reserves wherer the lower brake lines was chewed up with the velcro and had to be replaced.and that is just fiding them on a repack,by previous riggers.you need to pay attention when you store the brake line with velcro. rodger