falxori

My family was kicked out of their home in Hebron. My aunt was forced out of Persia as a kid and walked all the way from Iran to Israel. several of her family members didnt make it. my 2 best friends' families were kicked out of their houses in Iraq and Egypt. all of the above lived for several years in refugee camps. my uncle was murdered when a bus in Tel-Aviv blew up in 1996. pretty much everyone in Israel has a family member or a friend who was hit by terrorism. so according to your logic, I should be blowing up some civilians? after all, I have all of the reasons you've mentioned... and to keep the thread on topic, I'm pretty sure whoever blew up this mosque in Pakistan will name the same reasons (i.e his way of life was destroyed, some of his extremist buddies or family members were killed, etc.) the difference is not in the reasons. with you, its with the identity of the victims... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

I'm sure whoever did it felt oppressed, wronged or victimized somehow how come you don't "understand" them like you do when an Israeli bus/restaurant/nightclub is blown up by Palestinians? I just wonder how a suicide bomber is one place is understandable and in another place its "scum" "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you're welcome. in case you forgot, here is a video of Hamas terrorist firing rockets from a UN schoolyard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI and another of a zoo and school booby trapped: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU beside giving the IDF the GPS coordinates of their buildings, they should have prevented Hamas from using them. when fired upon, any building is a legitimate target. beside the fact that seeing civilians getting hurt is never nice, the only "evidence" this video shows is some guy's opinion. there was a doctor (I think he was French or Italian) who looked into the wounds in Gaza and said he saw no evidence of any Phosphorous used. This is ,at best, a very opinionated reporter trying to back up his already established opinion with any shred of evidence he can find. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

they'll probably use the same logic when given the choice between showing the story of 100,000 armed terrorists who got hit and the the sad story of the 10 civilians who got hit by accident... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

lack of might doesn't make you right either. your lack of understanding of judaism is astonishing. show me one religion that isn't based on "god likes us best and we are the only ones who really know what he wants"? christianity saw judaism as outdated and considered to be "the new deal" with god, and Islam is no different. so many? how did ONE testimony (which is actually hear-say, translates in your head to "so many"? you make-believe things to match your predefined views. really? show me another conflict in recent history that deserves media attention like the Palestinians? there are many many people who have it MUCH worse that you hardly hear about (Darfur, Tmiles in Sri Lanks, Kurds, western africa, etc,). the Palestinians get more of the world's attention than they should. they also get the most money per capita in aid too, just so you know. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

true, more than a few of the suicide bombers were actually well educated (even academics) and were pretty far from the bottom of the social scale. there is no one factor in becoming a suicide bomber but the religious brainwash and "afterlife" promises, don't help... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

no, it takes years of preaching of hate... have you? have you read the schoolbooks filled with hate? have you heard an Immam speak at the mosques in Gaza? there are many poor people around the world, I think the religious motivation has a lot to do with why they decide to become suicide bombers "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

- Might is not always wrong and lack of might isn't always right either. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

this is not the topic here, but if you want to quote the Geneva conventions, you should remember that both Egypt and Jordan have signed a peace treaty and waived their claims for the west bank and Gaza so for that matter israel has a "right" to do what it wants with this land (there was no "Palestine" there). naturally, you can't ignore the existance of the Palestinians there and we need a solution but the Geneva convention you rely on doesn't really hold once the "previous owner" doesnt want the land back. I actually think he got it nailed. I promise you that most other countries would have used much more force showing no regard whatsoever to civilian lives, and there are more than enough examples in history... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

A terrorist group who won the Parliment election and took the government by violence. I dont know if it makes them "representatives". they are in power and their actions count. your views of the IDF are more than clear. in your views it is worse than a terror organization targeting civilians (including its own) on purpose. good for you. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

I never said he deserved to get hurt but... you you protest violently, throwing rocks at the police, they will fire tear gas at you (or water jets or rubber bullets or tasers). they weren't exactly "peaceful passive" protests... getting hit on the head with a tear gas canister is bad luck. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

at least you are honest enough to admit your twisted views. - according to the report, the area was a "no pass" zone and the woman didn't understand it. which will make it an operational fuck-up, not murder - what if the "woman" was packed with explosives, walking towards the soldiers? (happened more than once) - what if the woman is in her house, but a hamas sniper settles in her bedroom? - what if Hamas packed the child's school with explosves and used the schoolground to fire rockets? all of the above was the reality in Gaza. you can't take any civilian casualties out of context. first of all, I've heard that the sniper himslef (unlilke someone who thought he heard something), said that he fired a warning shot and didn't actually hit anyone. so, I don't know how true these accusations are, if any. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

yes i have. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

no, but living in a house that is packed with explosives or that is used to fire rockets from, is. being at a riot, throwing rocks at police offices, makes you fair game for tear gas. getting hit straight on by a tear gas canister is bad luck. there is nothing illegal in using tear gas in riots. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

again, in your eyes. I don't see them as solid at all. on the contrary, I think they are anything but solid considering the nature of the conflict and the reason of why civilians are involved. I do every time you say the IDF kills people intentionally or commits war crimes when civilians get hurt, forgetting to mention that these civilians were taking an active role in the fighting (whether by choice or Hamas using them) obviously, you did... you do realize that you can't "shoot" anybody with a tear gas canister as these things are neither accurate nor targeted for a direct hit, right? he was taking part in a riot and got hit by a tear gas canister which is a legitimate anti-riot measure. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

its very news to those who end up dead... and it is the cause for Israel's operations including the operation in Gaza. yes, it is news. but whether it actually happened (as opposed to hearsay and rumors) or whether these were isolated events or a bigger problem is something that should (and is) be investigated. and not by the blood seeking media (including the Israeli) which is quick to draw a conclusion that will make a better headline. I'm not saying nothing wrong happened. I am saying that there is no "let's kill civilians" policy (or intent) and that in a desnely populated warzone you sometimes shoot first and ask later. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

we did many times. and as long as you keep accusing Israel in war crimes and an official policy of killing civilians I will prove to you that you are wrong. I very rarely innitiate these threads... maybe I should, like when a couple of days ago a car bomb was (luckily) defused in a shopping mall in Haifa. I'm sure that didn't make it to your newspaper... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

actions that show much more restraint than most countries would when faced with endless terror attacks and missile fire on civilian towns. much more restraint than their "brothers" the Egyptians and especially the Jordanians showed them in the past. war crimes by your definition which do not hold when civilian buildings and people play an active role in the fightting. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you can stop feeding the trolls "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

sure, its no secret. I have 2 in my car. since you seem to like wikipedia so much, here is one for you (feel free to copy&paste and start a thread...) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

can you do anything beside quoting every news scrap that has "Israel" in it and replying to your own posts? this is related how exactly? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

true. that why there are courts and official investigators (whether internal or external), like in any other democracy. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

its still isn't a "policy of killing innocent people". if the sniper was to defend a "clear zone" and someone else send them there, its a major fuckup, not murder. just like the incident which resulted in a tank firing into a house where an IDF squad was hiding, killing several soldiers. btw, I've heard that someone checked with the sniper and he said he actually just fired a warning shot and did not kill them. but I don't know if its verified. and I still do. if something like that happened, then it should not have happened and the investigation will make sure of that. but in no way or form was anything an "official policy of murder" like said before. you will not find any mainstream israeli leader who would say it is acceptable. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

here you go... - if any unethical behaviour by troops took place, it is wrong and I (like most Isralis) strongly condemn it. - as far as I know, the military police and JAG have launched an investigation. such things are not acceptable by the Israeli public and will not be tolarated. - there is a HUGE difference between shooting at someone who "didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter" and cold blooded murder. operational mistakes like that happen all the time and in many cases the result is friendly fire (which happen a LOT). - so? isn't your family's life more important to you than someone else's? I'm not saying you should go kill people, but if its you or them, then yes, I value the lives of my family/friends/countrymen more than those of my enemy. if you claim you would rather die than kill your enemy, you lie. and when your enemy packs explosives into schools and use civilians as shields, you sometimes hurt innocent people. oh really? OFFICIAL policy of murdering civilians, nothing less? i'm not saying there are no cases of light fingers on the trigger. when in a hostile environment, scared to death, you sometimes shoot first and ask later. this is not an official "lets shoot everybody because they don't mean anything" policy. I will put the IDF's moral and ethics up against anyone's anyday. there is a serious debate in Israel about this right now. I just wonder what would have happened to a palestinian going against Hamas' actions... oh wait, he'd be blindfolded and thrown off a rooftop... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

last time i checked, England was a democracy. these protest, while unpopular, are very far from terroristic... but you're right, bad news sells. that's why leaders who do chose to go against these tactics need to be VERY clear about their message "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."