Chris-Ottawa

I have a good friend that works at the tunnel...he might be able to recommend a few hotels that offer "hourly" rates? Hahha, but I'm serious..... "When once you have tasted flight..."

Fair enough, I'll give you that as a probable cause. On the other hand...for a reserve to basically come out of the bag and instantly be a mess without first nearly deploying, is sort of odd. I've seen a fair number of "in door" deployments on video and never once saw something like this, even with main deployments. Just seems odd to me... "When once you have tasted flight..."

Alright Peter, I'll bite, but I'm gonna take another angle on this. Firstly, that video was pretty scary, and I could only ever hope for the same turnout if it ever happened to me. Aside from what/how it happened, I'm more interested in knowing about the reserve deployment. Why would, or what might cause a reserve to deploy in such a manner given the fact that as far as I can see....it had a clean deployment. It didn't snag on anything, it didn't hit the tail, jumper was essentially in a belly to earth configuration (relative wind)... Anyone else ponder that? I think that's the even scarier part...Imagine if that sequence of events happened in the opposite order...Main, cutaway, pooched reserve...real shitty day. Note: I did watch this on my iPhone, so I may not have caught all the detail. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Jacob, If you do this....please ensure I'm there and can tag along with camera. Thanks "When once you have tasted flight..."

Personal Experience: No shit, there I was...posting away on dropzone.com about what I should get as a skydiving tattoo. After I got some posts, I decided that when I knew what I wanted and the time was right, it would come to me. You shouldn't ask for ideas from anyone else, it's your body. Some of the posts basically said you should earn a tattoo for whatever you choose, but I only half agree with that. Keep it on your mind, don't rush into it and one day you'll say "That's what I want!" http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2718132;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=35; I got mine this January, some 350 jumps later and a whole 2 years after I posted on dz.com. I'm glad I waited, and I'm really happy with the tattoo. I want another, but until I figure it out...the canvas stays empty. Take a look at the thread, read what some people said about rushing, earning...etc... I've also attached a picture of what I ended up doing. I think it turned out nice. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey Dave, In a track, wouldn't "straight down" actually be the direction of the track and the oncoming relative wind? The canopy doesn't know vertical, only we do, all it can do is deploy into the relative wind. Aside from speed variations, there should be no difference whatsoever what "direction" your PC gets thrown or what orientation your body is in at that point in time. For example purposes, lets say your track results in an oncoming "Relative Wind" of 120mph...how is that different from being on your belly at 120mph? The PC still gets put into 120mph winds, only the human component changes at that point. Maybe I'm thinking about this too much, but I think "tracking" is being blamed for something that isn't necessarily provoked by doing it. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey PMS, I'm not sure what you're trying to point out? I am most definitely going SLOWER vertically in a track than I am belly to earth, but obviously much more horizontally than belly to earth. Are you sure you're meaning to say you should be going FASTER in a track? As far as I was taught and understand, the SLOWER you go in a track is considered a better track and will (in theory) provide more horizontal separation. When I'm on a jump any bigger than a 2 way, I track my ass off and often deploy, turn around and think...did I track too far, or did they dump early? Why am I all the way over here. I have a goal for one of my Canada Day jumps this weekend. I will exit the otter, track for an entire jump and see what I get for freefall. I will post the results in this thread. Goal...90 seconds from 13.5 to 3. This means an average speed of 80mph (vertical) must be maintained.... Wish I still had my wingsuit....after only 5 jumps on it, I was getting 42mph vertical...I know I can get lower... "When once you have tasted flight..."

Lots of interesting things to ponder Peter...Thanks for your post. I'm actually surprised of the direction this thread has taken. I expected my "theory" to be completely wrong and as such, get shot down quickly. It's actually providing some practical information. I expect a full writeup on your testing Peter! Haha. Brettski, I now understand what you're referring to. I agree the effect would be very little, but you could be onto something. I agree that gravity would be pulling you down and could be putting slightly more tension on the A+B's, but I still can't imagine that gravity would override the relative wind. I mean that in the sense that there's no way you'd be "pulled" enough to bring slack to the C"s and D's for example. I know that's extreme, but it's easier for me to reference that way. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that gravity would essentially make the canopy "dive" into the relative wind while it's deploying any more than if you were perfectly vertical. Interesting discussion anyways, lets keep it going. Thanks! "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey Brettski, I understand your logic, but I tend to want to disagree. If there was no such thing as relative wind and it always came from straight down, then I would agree with the "swinging" theory. When you deploy, your canopy comes out EXACTLY in line with the relative wind no matter the direction of travel. As you slow down, the relative wind direction changes, as does your body in reference to the canopy. Think FJC..and the throw of the airplane....You change positions, but you're really only staying flat to the relative wind. The fact of the matter is that the canopy will always deploy exactly in line with the relative wind. Until I see video of someone getting their canopy to deploy against the relative wind, this is what I will believe... The ONLY ONLY ONLY thing I can associate a "hard opening" and tracking to is the distance you swing to change direction. Easiest to think of deploying from Head down, you will be swung upright and it may "seem" like a harder opening, but it's just the amount of swing the body perceives. Peek: You may be correct. I know that my fall rate drastically drops in a track. I have a very shallow, slow track. I can get into the high 70MPH range without trying too hard, but I'm definitely travelling more horizontally. I don't doubt a steep or head down track is gonna get you a slammer because you're using the parachute at it's unintended limits. "When once you have tasted flight..."

OK, so, I was just reading the thread about the Spectre slamming a guy and it was raised that it could have been linked to tracking at pull time. Time and time again, I come to this and think...how the hell does that change ANYTHING. Maybe it is strictly my inexperience speaking, but theoretically, you are changing only the direction of the relative wind to the canopy, btu truthfully, the relative wind stays the same, only your orientation to the ground changes. Here's the way I'm thinking of it, please correct me and provide input to help me understand why everyone thinks it's bad to track when dumping: Tracking is simply going to convert some of your vertical speed into horizontal speed. This would mean that instead of your PC deploying straight up, it will deploy say, 35ish degrees off of "straight up". Now, some might say well look, it's deploying is a different direction, but that doesn't matter. It is still deploying DIRECTLY into your burble, just as it would from a flat freefall. Some might also say, well deploying in a track exposes the nose of the canopy to more wind...to that, I say not a bit. No matter what, you will still hang 90 degree to your canopy during deployment (Picture the letter "T"). Also, consider a hop and pop. You are still experiencing "throw" from the plane, which would be barely different than deploying from a track, I don't hear people saying you shouldn't do H+P's because you might have a hard opening. Granted the speeds are slower on H+P's. As a side note...I'd say about 80% of my jumps are ended directly from a track and I've jumped Sabre 2's, Spectres, Cobalts, and and a Katana. Not once did I have a hard opening, or even one where I was like, geez...that was firm. I was even practicing "wingsuit pulls" with my Cobalt 105 and had no issues. On any jump that isn't solo, I'm tracking and the only "deceleration" I normally do is the time it takes me to reach one hand up to stabilize myself and the other to pull, I do not "flare out". So, that being said, please enlighten me and help me understand why some people think this changes things. I'd like to consider other aspects that I may not understand or be thinking as a possibility. I truly am interested to know what I'm not thinking of. I'm looking to be schooled on aerodynamics and the relative wind if that's what needs to be.... "When once you have tasted flight..."

Does anyone have a picture of the Baby Death on a CX100? I'm curious just how big it is. Thanks! "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey, So here's the video. It's not nearly as bad as I recalled, but still an interesting example of wind on a canopy. This was around 2000-1500 feet and the canopy was a 290ish sq ft with my sister, a 110lb girl under it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW6CNTYa9kE "When once you have tasted flight..."

Heheh...how did it work? Well, they DEFINITELY didn't have to stay "down" with me, the had to work to stay "up". Not sure if you know Cyr and Turtle, but they were my instructors and both are "roundish". (Sorry guys, no offense meant by that!) I remember my FF speed being about 104mph throughout, and now I am easily able to fall on my belly at below 100mph. I also remember jump 30 pretty well because Jeff Dean came up with me to just film a jump so I could take it home to show my parents. I was doing flips and barrel rolls, and Jeff still couldn't slow down enough so the video was moot. Jump #31 he put a big cotton baggy suit on as was working hard to stay that slow. I remember other coach jumps with Clive Webb and immediately after exit, he was 200 ft below me and probably 2 grand below me by deploy time. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey Peter, Of all people, I'm glad that you replied. I'm gonna pick apart your response just a little for the sake of discussion. Nothing at all against your points, and don't be offended by a noob telling a highly talented guy what to think. 10+ lbs of lead, granted will not help much under canopy, but do you really think it helps that drastically for fall rate? I mean, as a student I was flat as a board and 115 lbs. Flat as a board, 115 lbs plus 10 lbs of weight might grant me what, 2 MPH? It's the arch that needs to be focused on, I doubt the weights do anything unless you are experienced and know how to use them. I'm willing to bet I'd have more of an increase in fall rate by stuffing a pillow to round me out, than I would by adding 10lbs. Tandems, sure in some cases they may wait, but I am leaning towards no. Think of Debbie...she's what, 100lbs and a Tandem Examiner now. She had to do a solo at one point on a tandem, winds or not that's a light loading (.25-.35 maybe?) As for lightly loaded accuracy canopies, what's the max wind for an accuracy canopy, 8mph seems to ring in my mind? I'm sure they're jumped in higher winds than that, but you said the key thing. Point and case, students don't have that experience. I'm not sure if you were there the day my sister was on STI's student gear and had a wind related collapse. I believe it was a manta, but I'm not positive, it was 260+ anyways. You know she's like 5 foot nothing and 110 lbs. She hit a layer of wind shear and the canopy basically collapsed 100% and did recover, but I'm willing to bet that would have never happened on a "loaded" canopy. It's on video and I'm gonna see if I can get it from her. It may be on her Facebook. Something else that's scary about students at STI is the giant wind deflector...aka the hanger. Just some info to ponder "When once you have tasted flight..."

This conversation actually caught my attention. It's interesting to hear what people have to say about this, and from what I gather, it's 50/50. I went through PFF (AFF in Canadia) and would just simply like to share some of the details of that because it is relevant to the conversation. Here are some of the details: -I weigh 115 lbs -Was jumping a Manta 288 until jump 16 or so. -DZ is less than 1 km from a HUGE body of water (Water gear required) -I wore 12lbs of lead from jump 2 on whenever there was an instructor with me Here's what I thought about the whole experience AT THE TIME: Carrying around 12 extra pounds, as well as the 25 lb rig that didn't come close to fitting or being comfortable...was EXHAUSTING. When I was sitting in the plane and was asked to get on my knees, it was a struggle and I often needed help. Crawling around in a 182 and trying to get a good arch with the weigh wasn't easy. The theory was that the weights would help me arch harder. Here's what I think about the situation NOW: -Never though about the drowning bit which scares the fuck out of me -Wish I had stood up for myself and said I was uncomfortable -Kinda thinking I should have jumped at a DZ that was able to properly outfit me, or at least close gearwise and instructor wise. Gearwise may be tough as in Canada, since, in my experience most of the dz's are pretty much ancient in that area. So, all this being said, I guess the question remains whether I was unsafe under the 288 or not. I think...NO. I agree with the posters who discussed wind levels and I think if the DZ respects those rules, it should be fine. I believe you are at more risk of collapse, but what students are using risers below 2 grand, or cranking a toggle turn to build up some momentum...NONE. THAT being said, there were a few times where we jumped "AT" the wind limits, or slightly beyond by the time we got to the ground and let me tell you...that makes for a scary ride under a 288 loaded at loading of about 0.5:1. Interesting question to raise...On the TI course, you're required to do a solo, tandems have a different wind restriction, 25mph I believe? Shouldn't we be discussing the same issues here? Granted, this doesn't happen as often as student jumps, but truthfully, 25mph and a 380+ canopy is gotta be ALOT worse! Or lets bring the BASE community into this, they are jumping loadings in the .7, .8 area and seem to have no issues with this and don't tell me none of them jump into wind above student limits because I know that's BS. Honestly, I can probably attribute some of my reasoning for rapid downsizing to this question. Not that I'm trying to justify it, but more of a "why I thought it was ok" sort of reason. It was engrained in me that I need to load a canopy more to get a better flare, avoid collapse, and backing up. I personally think that's complete BS now that I have experience and think weights should ever be used on students. If someone 380 lbs comes to do AFF, he gets sent home. If a small cute girl (or a guy like me) comes to the DZ, where is the cutoff when the gear is too big vs too small? Where is the cutoff of the instructors saying "there's no fucking way I can fall that slow and if we lose grips, he/she is on their own? When would a DZ send a tiny student away because X DZ has 2 small AFF instructors which are capable of maintaining a slow fallrate? When would a DZ say, "WE CAN'T DO AFF WITH YOU DUE TO SAFETY REASONS, BUT WE'LL SET YOU UP VIA STATIC LINE"? I don't think this is an issue of safety of the student under canopy, this is an issue of making money from all possible sources at all costs, with minimal costs. Sorry for the long post, and I expect flames from it, but who fucking cares, this is MY opinion! "When once you have tasted flight..."

"gift" only works for items under $60 CDN. You can ship it via USPS, and "maybe" not get pinned for customs, it's totally random. Ship UPS...bet your ass you'll be paying out your ass. JUst remember, if you ship it via USPS, and you say value is less than $60 or if you falsify the value....when they lose it, they'll only pay the "value" of the package. You WILL get screwed if you try this. I have bought and sold many things from/to the US...use USPS, and claim it's true value that you'd want replaced when it gets lost. Sometimes it goes though freely, sometimes not. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Sure can...but with a condition. You can dub from internal memory to a stick, but not the other way around. From video mode: Click "Home" Click the third "tab" Choose Movie Dub Choose HD or SD Choose By select or by date This send a "copy" from the internal memory, to a stick. Replace memory stick, repeat.... I assume you mean you want to dub from a CX100 to another CX100, or any Sony Card. Not for example a CX100 to a PC1000. That would not be possible as far as I know "When once you have tasted flight..."

I'd keep jumping for a couple of reasons: -I enjoy it way too much to stop at the possibility that it may be my next jump or my 200,000th. -If it was meant to happen, it will. If you decide not to make that jump, it'll happen in a car wreck on the way home. WHo knows. Live your life in hapiness, not fear or worry. "When once you have tasted flight..."

I ordered mine with them...just adds a wider surface for your thighs basically. $50 for endless comfort? Easy answer in my books. Why go through more pain than you have to? "When once you have tasted flight..."

I really enjoy my Neptune and Optima. I like the Neptune for the logging and updatability, and the Optima for the customer service and accuracy. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that, but it'll be in a neoprene condom very shortly. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey, Just finished my camera helmet and I think it is pretty clean. The only thing I have left to do is make some neoprene condoms for the cameras. Setup: -Bonehead Optik w/ cutaway -Canon Rebel Xs (Stock Lens) w/ bite switch -Sony CX100 w/ Cookie .3 Lens (SD) -Hypeye D Pro -Custom L bracket made by BillVon (Thanks a bunch) -Ring Sight Later! "When once you have tasted flight..."

Definitely excited to get into that bird....coming from a Cessna DZ and jumping that Caravan all last year was amazing. Looking forward to the incredibly quick lifts. And of course....credit to Jason for being the best pilot of the fastest Caravan in the west....errrr...North? Can't wait! I wonder what the climb angle would be in that thing while empty and running on fumes. Probably something ridiculous.... "When once you have tasted flight..."

My input: Last Christmas, I was down in ZHills and PD showed up for the boogie. I was doing my first wingsuit jumps and needed a non eliptical canopy. I demoed a Sabre2 135 from Sunshine factory the first day, then the next day I demoed an Optimum 143. Yes...for wingsuit jumps! The canopy opens great... I would willingly jump it as a main without question. Wingsuit jumps worked great with the Optimum. I have an unplanned ride on a PD-R 143, and 5 or 6 jumps on the Optimum. The Optimum definately flares better and flies nicer. I don't recall the opening on the PD-R, aside that it did open. I agree with the fact that the PD-R is proven, but in the same respect, I'm sure PD modeled the Optimum after the PD-R, so the "general" design/workmanship/technology is the same behind it all. Bonus for the Optimum...pack volume. You can now get a bigger reserve for that added safety. I bought a new rig last fall, and was planning to buy a PD-R 113... 113 as a reserve was a bit chilling for me at that point, so I decided to go with the Optimum 126. POint and case...I liked it, I felt safer having a slightly bigger reserve....and I like it. Either way, if any reserve fails....there isn't a "warranty" anyways... "When once you have tasted flight..."

So, it's been about 2 years since I started this thread and have finally gotten the ink. I posted this thread because I knew it wasn't right in my mind and wanted some advice/opinions. I am really glad I didn't get the whole script. I think all it took was time and I figured it out. I think it turned out great and I'm really happy with it. I had it done when I returned from Florida for my 2nd winter skydiving vacation this January (Nearly 2 years after the though came to my head). *I brought this thread back up since I was reading some other Tat threads and thought I'd share mine. Feel free to comment! -First pic was about an hour after getting it -Second pic was the day after getting it "When once you have tasted flight..."