Chris-Ottawa

That looks pretty damn impressive, but we're also well beyond a standard sport canopy loading. 2:1 is nothing that a new'ish jumper would be considering (in most cases i hope). But wait? No one went out this weekend and got a video of them on a Sabre2 150 busting a 600+ foot swoop? I'm shocked! There seems to be a lot of claims in this thread but no proof that I would consider competition for an average person who downsized too quickly and didn't learn. Yes, there have been videos posted of large canopies swooping, but nowhere near the distance/speed that seems to be claimed. What exactly are people trying to convince new jumpers of? That they can swoop just as far as the world record if they just learn the canopy? Or that they can simply bust out a swoop in general on any canopy? or that they should be able to swoop 250ft on a regular canopy? Are we just saying that they'll be a little safer?What are we trying to compare here? "When once you have tasted flight..."

That's what the Neptune said as average speed. I realize it's not horribly accurate, but it's likely pretty close. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Thanks for all the info everyone. @voilsb: 200lbs and getting 2:45 on a P2 is pretty impressive, but it depends on what altitudes your using and your height etc. If you're exiting at 15k, going down to 2.5k, and are 6'6", yeah, you're gonna have a MUCH longer flight. I'm getting roughly 2m 20s flights getting out at 11.5 and deploying around 3750ft. My Neptune showed my descent rate as 33MPH this past weekend. I'm 5'8" and 155 lbs (exit weight). I also haven't ever tried for a max flight right from exit. I typically roll out the door, recover and start flying, so my flights are likely from 11 or slightly below. I'll test it out this weekend...a full flight, max airtime flight, right from exit. Something else to keep in mind is that I'm not trying strictly to upgrade. I'm buying suit to play with and keeping the P2. The P2 is a great suit and gives me plenty of range, but I want something that i can go mess around in when no one else is around to jump. @Piifish Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you opinions. I simply asked "why" you advise against it. For now, aside from progression, people have just said it's not a great idea. I'm not out here to compete with the best, and I don't "need" to get the most performance I can out of the suit on day 1. Frankly, if I feel like spending the money, and there's no glaring safety reason why I shsouldn't, I'll likely do it anyways. I definately wasn't seeking approval by posting, I was asking for impressions of the suit to determine which suit I would want. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Thanks Fast, now I will completely agree with you. I agree, in principle, that someone who really learns to fly a reasonable canopy before upgrading will generally do better in the long run. There are some huge factors to consider such as currency, aptitude, and instruction but in principle...yes. As far as friendly competition goes, I would love to duel it out. You on a Sabre 120 and me on a Velo 120. The only difference would be wingloading. I'd load a Velo 120 at 1.25 which I'm certain would result in pretty poor performance. All I was getting at was that you came on and tried to prove yourself as an awesome swooper (which I don't doubt that you are), but the thread wasn't about who can do what, it was about finding videos that noobs can see which will lead them away from downsizing too quickly. All this to say, I would LOVE to see a comparison video of your swoops. Seeing what a high performance canopy nets you, with the same jumper on the same size "sport" canopy. I know it will not be the same, but I suspect that it will be pretty impressive. I honestly hope you are able to get this and post some video. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Thanks so far everyone. I think we can all agree that it's completely possible to bust out a wicked swoop on a "reasonable" canopy. I'm wondering how willing the pro swoopers would be to film them landing on various canopies. That way, when a noob says, My Spectre is garbage so I want to buy a Stiletto, we they can see that their "landings" are garbage as compared to a swooper on the same canopy. I really like the videos of the 230's and stuff, but a reasonable canopy loaded above 1.5 really isn't reasonable anymore. We wouldn't tell a student that the canopy is great, but you have to load it at 2.0 to get a wicked swoop. I want to see some pro's swooping the 170+ sizes. I must say that Scott Miller on the Navigator 230 (220?) was pretty badass. "When once you have tasted flight..."

And the funny thing is that I never said I was the swoop king or that I can go farther etc... Actually, I never even mentioned myself at all. He needed to tell everyone how much of a skygod he is and I simply gave him the opportunity by creating a thread in the swooping forum. And considering I've never jumped a Velo, I don't doubt that he would beat me. But if he was going against anyone who had an opportunity to mildly familiarize themselves with that Velo, there's not a chance in hell that Fast and his magical Sabre2 120 would come out on top. At least he can sleep tonight knowing that he can beat someone who has zero experience on a wing and 1/6th the number of jumps. I'd be pretty proud too (or not). "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey man, I didn't ask you to prove that your dick is bigger, I just asked for some videos of people jumping bigger canopies. There is a tonne of threads on here that tell some noob that they shouldn't downsize, or buy an elliptical because if they learn to fly what they have, they will be better and will be able to "outswoop" a real swooping canopy because they "know how to fly it better". I'm not trying to condone downsizing or buying a velo after 100 jumps, I'm trying to gather some videos so when noobs complain that they've gotten all they can out of their Sabre2 150...they can find this thread, and these videos and be proven that they have not. I'd love to see Jay M, tear a Sabre2 150 a new asshole...but you know what. It doesn't exist yet we still try to convince noobs that it really is "just as good". Let's show them the capability so they have something to agree with. Oh and: You and I both know that this is a load of crap, but feel free to keep trying to convince people on the interwebz of your uber skillz. "When once you have tasted flight..."

No need to get out your chequebooks...youtube/vimeo links will be fine. The age old argument that "You can outswoop a swooper on a tiny elliptical by learning how to fly your normal canopy" is frankly a bit of BS. So, let's see it. Post the link to any video you can find that shows a "normal" canopy outswooping an elliptical/xbrace etc... I'm talking Sabre2, Safire, Pilot, Spectre, whatever...anything other than your standard Xfire, Katana, Velo etc... Im not doubting that you can bust an awesome swoop on a Sabre2, just looking for god honest swoops that show a standard "sport" canopy keeping pace with the swooping kids. On that same note, am I the only one who would love to see the PD team host a mini swoop comp restricted to reasonable sized sport canopies? IE: Sabre2 120 minimum, with a pro swooper under the wing. I think that would be pretty damn entertaining. "When once you have tasted flight..."

But what could go wrong? (joking) I do realize it's a huge step, and a lot more involved but realistically a wingsuit is "generally" a wingsuit. Yes, more wing, more burble, more potential for issues, but the same thing applies on the P2, just less likely to occur. I can understand if I had 15 jumps and wanted to upgrade, but +/-200 jumps is a fair bit of experience. If it was for proxy flying...I'm certain I would not be looking at the X2/Venom etc class for my experience. I'm all ears though, feel free to school me (Seriously). Is there anything that I'm not considering that I absolutely wouldn't be able to handle with 200 wingsuit jumps experience and jumping to a "mega-suit"? I can't accept "you just can't do that" as an answer, but if you give me some valid points, I'm very likely to reconsider my options and go to a mid-high range suit instead. "When once you have tasted flight..."

I'm looking to get a new wingsuit and I'm looking for some opinions/advice from the guys who have had an opportunity to fly some of these suits. My experience. I was taught by Jeff Nebelkopf a few years ago on the Intro suit. Did 6-8 jumps with Jeff. Bought myself a Raptor as a first suit. Was definately a bit bigger than I expected, but did 20ish jumps on it. before selling it to buy a new container. Couple of years ago, I bought a Phantom2 and have done about 150 jumps on it. I absolutely love this suit for general use, but I want to get something that I can use strictly for max flight, distance etc. Something to play with for solo jumps. My Size I am 5'8", 120lbs. I realize a big suit will make me ultra floaty, but that's what I'm after in thsi case. It is not desired for flocking etc.. The suits I'm talking about X-Bird 2 Vampire 3/4 Venom Basically, I'm trying to discern what the difference between these suits really is, which one would be best suited to my interests, is the vampire series more suited to Base over the other 2. I am not intending to do any Base jumping with them, this is strictly for skydiving use looking for max glide and/or slowest freefall. At this point, I think what I'm looking for is more of the X2 or Venom. The V3/4 seems to be focussed on high forward speed but not necessarily high glide (even though it will be heaps better than the Phantom2). I'd love to just go demo these suits, but that's not a possibility while living in Canada. Any opinions/discussion is apreciated. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Oh wait...this is a classic. Lindenwood...you are the epitome of the classic "noob". You have 3 threads started, let me share it with everyone in this thread. Here's a quote from your other thread: and in this thread: I think you answered your own question there bud. You have 9 jumps, you have no idea what a real canopy handles like and you have next to ZERO experience. You even realize that you're going to get yourself in trouble and will need to rely on your skill to get out of it (which you know you also don't have at this point). I think you're trying to skip about 20 steps in your progression. Slow down, get another 30-50 jumps and you'll have a MUCH better understanding of what a "sport" canopy is capable of. "When once you have tasted flight..."

I'll give you the answers you want, I like telling it like it is. You indicated that you are a "skinny 170 lbs". 170 lbs is pretty average. I'm a "skinny 120 lbs". My 31st jump was on a 7 cell 135sq ft (Spectre). That was the canopy I bought and used full time. By Jump 75 I demoed a Stiletto 135, and ended up going back to my Spectre 135. Jump 99 was on an Alpha 120...scared he hell out of me and went back to my Spectre. By jump 117, I had purchased and made a Cobalt 105 my full time canopy. I jumped that until I bought a Katana 97 about 160 jumps later. Yes, I was regularly jumping a Katana 97 before 300 jumps and still continue to jump it. All this to say that you can generally do whatever you want, and can get away with. Is it smart, nope. Are you much more likely to die, yep. What are the odds that you think you're better than everyone else and won't die, extremely high. You fit the criteria of being a male in their mid 20's with an ego to prove. Here's the dead honest truth. Don't come to the internet to get approval for what your instructors told you not to do, or refused to discuss with you because it's ridiculous. If you asked them and they sat down with you and discussed your performance, they may have been considering it. If they refuse to chat...that's a sign. If you choose to jump an elliptical and the DZ allows it, shut up and jump. When you cream in and break you back (or worse) and learn that you'll never walk again, don't be looking for donations to pay your medical bills or people to comfort you while you're strung up in the hospital. Reality sucks. There, you have the answer you wanted, now go and jump. PS: Man up and fill out your profile so we can see what altitude you're likely to be jumping in, what canopy size you're on now, how many jumps you have etc. Hiding behind your computer screen like a little girl while you're trying to prove how big/strong and badass you are is kind of a conundrum in itself. {pot}stirred{/pot} "When once you have tasted flight..."

Take yourself back to day 1...do a static line jump....while blindfolded and get led down by radio. I see this done quite a bit around here. Minor planning, nearly guaranteed to work and it is a VERY VERY VERY different experience and scary as hell. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Give Parachute School of Toronto a call. They have a pretty sizeable gear store on site, and if they have what you need, great, if not, they may be able to get it for you. What are you looking for anyways? There's lots of gear dealers in Canada, but not many people keep stock of anything major due to costs. You're probably in one of the most likely places that you'll find gear in Canada anyways. Your second most viable option is by looking at the classifieds right here on the site. Likely the #1 resource for "stuff". I also sell some smaller things on the side, but may be able to get what you need. Check out www.repackmyreserve.com. It's actually my brand new site and it's launching today. If you have questions, or need advice, feel free to contact me. I know most of the people at the T.O. DZ's and can get you in touch with them. "When once you have tasted flight..."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/06/05/pol-bath-salts-illegal.html "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey Naturegirl (Kim?), We just got some excellent news. It looks like they may be expanding the airport to include a test track for the F1 circuit. These cars will easily cover up the noise of the skydiving planes. Due to the air density in Colorado, it makes the perfect testbed and they hope to run 7 days a week with cars from all over the world. Don't worry, the screaming engines will only be able to be heard 20-30 miles away. The city has restricted their testing to occur from 6am through 11pm. Here's a sample of what you'll be enjoying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUKz6raBGNo Isn't it great to know how much worse your life "could" be? Here's a neat little reference: 140dB Hearing protection required (definite long term damage) 140dB human throat and vocal cord resonance occurs 141dB Nausea felt after a few minutes 144dB Nose itches due to hair vibrations 145dB Vision blurs due to eyeball vibration 147dB Formula 1 race car full throttle drive bye 149dB Human lungs and breathing begins vibrating to the sound 150dB Loud rock concert, at speakers 150dB Sensation of being compressed as if underwater 152dB Vibration is painful and felt in joints 153dB Throat vibrating so hard it is impossible to swallow Only 6 Decibels away from being impossible to swallow! Sounds like fun! Details found here:http://www.decibelcar.com/menugeneric/87.html "When once you have tasted flight..."

I think the opening may be one of his worries...but assuming he survives that, what would he do with an open reserve at 100,000ft? I'm sure he doesn't have enough oxygen to fly down from that altitude and hook knifing the reserve doesn't seem too smart. Aside from that conundrum, would a reserve opening at 100,000 ft and 800kph necessarily be a concern due to the low air density? Would it not just remain a streamer, would the reserve even deploy? "When once you have tasted flight..."

Nice work! "When once you have tasted flight..."

I don't recall where I saw this, but I remember reading that 1 hour of sunlight can reduce the strength of webbing by up to 50%. 7 days of sun is all bad in my books, but I'd still jump it if it passed a pull test. I think the wise thing to do would be to send it to the manufacture (if possible) and have them give it an airworthiness check. NOTE: My percentage could be COMPLETELY incorrect, I don't recall exactly, but I know it's not good regardless. "When once you have tasted flight..."

C-123... Not only would it make a great jump, it would REALLY piss these whiners off. See for yourself...it's even painful on video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e84ZLDo948U&feature=related Actually, a somewhat common jumpship early on and I know a few still in use: The Beech 18...also quite noisy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y82pl3dy0u8&feature=related Fact is....Twin Otters should be the least of this lady's concerns. If she only knew what "could" happen in regards to noise levels. "When once you have tasted flight..."

No kidding eh? It's so much better to hear what you want to hear anyways! I've been contemplating a downsize, but my container will be too loose with anythingsmaller than my Katana 97, so I'm going to go to an X-Brace and skip like 4 sizes to ensure it's a good fit. I figure a Velocity 79 will fit nicely in there. Steep learning curve, but I'm going to be the world's best swooper and I'm way better than anyone I've ever met. Plus, I flew paper airplanes when I was a kid so i totally understand it. ****NOTE**** If you thought any of my advice was serious, you are severely mistaken, except for the do what you want part. Hell, if the DZO is cool with you jumping it and doesn't mind scraping your remains off the landing area, all the power to him. The only way to learn is by failing right? P.S: The ground never loses. Don't forget the video! "When once you have tasted flight..."

By simply reading the single sentence worth of text you typed on a computer, I have calculated that your canopy skills are above average and I think you should get the Katana. Based on your "quite apparent" skill level, you should probably skip the 170 and go for a 150 or maybe a 135, but only if you do 3 jumps on the 150 first. Oh, you'll need to prove that you also completed 3 jumping jacks, 2 pushups and a lap around the building with one hand behind your back. Oh, if you do go for the 150 or 135, be sure to have someone film your landings, preferably from 2 separate angles (head on, and from the side). This will help in...."critiquing" your landings. Heheh. Ok, seriously...you expect a real life answer after typing a single sentence on the web? Did I mention that you typed it ON THE WEB? To a bunch of people who have no clue who you are? What the hell did you expect when writing that sentence? I downsized too quickly, but I didn't ask my mommy, or my cool buddies on the internet, I just did it. Grow a set and downsize to whatever your DZO will let you jump, fuck it, skip to where you know you'll be in 20 jumps and just buy a Velocity... but don't expect condolences when you smear yourself across the parking lot. "When once you have tasted flight..."

9 friends? I thought here was 1000 for every person who spoke up? I think her using that phrase is backwards. It should say, out of 1000 people she tries to convince, 1 person gives enough of a damn to identify with her and "like" her page on Facebook. And hence...9 people. Some people are just too dumb to think for themselves and will bite onto any cause that someone convinces them is valid. Speaking of, anyone played "lemmings" lately? "When once you have tasted flight..."

Does anyone know: When someone is clinically insane, do they know they're insane? I figured that this would be the best thread to get an answer from. Thanks everyone! "When once you have tasted flight..."

It's one of the original Katana's, serial # 64 I think. It was owned by John Kleug (East Coast Freefly), so I'm not sure if it was requested by him to be installed, or if it was installed as new. For all I know, it could be one of the original test canopies. If you really want the date and stuff ,I can get it, but I'm way to lazy to unpack it. "When once you have tasted flight..."