strop45

Intermittent faults are very common in electrical and electronic devices. These are often caused by poor connection/loose leads etc. Any unusual behaviour from an AAD, especially during a startup sequence, is an indication that the AAD shouldn't be jumped. This applies to all manufacturers of AADs, not just Vigil. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

And just how common is for it for AADs to fire on landing? In the last week a cypres 2 fired on landing at my DZ. Highly experienced jumper, HP canopy and landing, only ruined his swoop and the cutter... The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

[Disclaimer] I have a dog [/Disclaimer] As long as your dog isn'y bothering anyone, then its OK. As soon as bothers (and that can be anything from looking, licking, barking, walking, just being there) one person, then the dog should leave. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

If this is so, then I agree its a bad thing, but I'm not so sure that that this is the case. I still practice my EPs the way they were taught to me,and in the event of things going wrong, my number one plan is to follow my EPs, not try and second guess the AAD. I turn it on at the beginning of the day and then forget it. No thats not 100% true, because I have an AAD in my rig, I always try and pull by 2500 at the latest. If I didn't have an AAD, maybe I might try and push this a bit??? So even if the actual AAD doesn't have any significant effect on my chances of injury or death, having it does make me pull higher. There is no doubt that the use of reliable AADs has reduced the number of injuries and deaths from low/no pulls. Incidentally I have no choice but to jump with an AAD, here just like a reserve, its a legal requirement for all jumpers.... The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

That would be beer? The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

You could always be really radical and ring them and ask "why the difference"? From the websites you quote, one is $1,200 for first 9 jumps, the other is around $1,600 for the first 9 jumps. I'm guessing that the $2,500 includes more than the first nine jumps. Best wishes for AFF The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Agreed and too late. Recently got on the plane with a jumper with about 60 jumps who is known for going low. He had forgotten his altimeter, so I gave him mine. So while I wouldn't board the plane without an altimeter, I don't have any problem jumping without one. IMO preferring to use safety devices whenever possible and being dependent on them are different. Blue ones Wayne The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Disagree. My favorite safety device is my rig. Would I jump without it, no way.... Many of us jump for fun. Having fun means different things for different people, but for me it means knowing my gear, knowing my limits, and using the appropriate equipment. Frankly with no safety glasses and no altimeters I would probably not enjoy the jump so why do it. Would I jump without my AAD, maybe, depends on the situation. Everyone has their own limits and can decide what equipment they are comfortable with and what equipment is optional. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

This is flawed logic. Many people have driven drunk and managed to get home without trouble. This does NOT imply that driving drunk is a good idea. Look at the reasons for jumping with one, the risks that having one creates and then make your decision. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Thanks for that. Very useful information. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

The point is that "someone" isn't the same as a positive signal from the pilot. Also people yelling "go" "go" "go" and pointing at the door and people yelling "no" "no" "no" and pointing at the door look very similar if you are in the door.... The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Fair enough, but it seems that there are at last two commonly understood signals for stop and the door open/close signals require some interpretation. Wouldn't it be good if there were universal "open the door", "good to go" and "hold/stop signals"? I was in a plane where the lights failed, but no one had the group I was jumping with. Someone opened the door and from that point on it was hard to know what the pilot wanted. If there was a simple "good to go" signal which the pilot could have given, it would have simplified the situation. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Following on from the tail strike incident, I wondered whether we need a set of commonly understood hand signals - one poster mentioned showing "knuckles". I'm not sure what that would mean. Even if we just had some "go", "no go" signals it would be useful? The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

I'm not sure whether to agree or disagree with this statement. I agree that if you rely on your AAD and think that you will need your AAD on a jump them you shouldn't jump. Nevertheless I feel safer knowing that my AAD is there and is on. Similarly I don't think I need my reserve on any particular jump (and if I did I wouldn't jump), but I feel safer knowing that is there. And yes, I understand that in some circumstances, either safety device might kill me, but overall I think I'm safer having both. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

There are people currently working to turn sewage into bio-diesel, so you could be crapping crude right now!! The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

In that situation, I seen the sports jumpers ride the plane down (i.e. not allowed to exit) and the Tandems jump. I had pulled himself off the load, as the winds were too high for me when the plane took off, 5 minutes later they increased another 10-15 mph and were very gusty. It was unpleasant being on the ground in the wind and it was interesting trying to catch tandems landing backwards. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Yip, have pulled way too early under stress.... On my first AFF full release, I immediately turned over on to my back, but was reasonably stable. I stayed that way for a while, then remembered my instruction and rolled over, arched and was stable. Just as I looked at my altimeter one of the instructors (reserve side) flew back in and went over my back. I thought that he was going for my PC and misread the altimeter as being 4000' instead of 6000'. I pulled 1000' feet too high. The instructor was still very close, but luckily no contact occurred. So under stress, misread the altimeter and pulled too early nearly killing myself and one instructor. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Best way is to get some good coaching. If easy to access, consider a wind tunnel. Try and do as many jumps as possible with people who have much more experience. Finally don't beat yourself up about jumps that you have done, it doesn't help. Debrief them honestly, then file them away and concentrate on the next jump. Sucking is all relative. Blue Skies. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Yes, thats the correct question. The problem is that you can apply the same argument to almost any safety device you care to name. Airbags, helmets, reserves.... Since a two out can kill you, one way to remove this risk is to jump without a reserve. Most people would agree that this is more likely to kill you. With an AAD, there are a relatively low number of saves, but these significantly outnumber the number of deaths that result from the use of an AAD. For a new jumper, say less than 500 jumps, there is little doubt that the use of an AAD reduces their risk of death or serious injury. In the USA, you get to decide whether to use an AAD or not and whether to wear a helmet on your motorbike or not. Here in New Zealand, the nanny state has decided that all skydivers will use an AAD and all motorbike riders (on public property, i.e. road) will wear helmets. While upsetting those who believe in personal freedom, these laws do help to make people safer (on average). Blue Skies The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Try leaving the excess line floating free, that way you can put your hand through the loop, release the brake and tie the whole brake line into a nice knot. The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Hey people, not to get to deep or philosophical, but have you heard of the free market. If you don't like the products or costs from one DZ, go to one where you do like it. None doing what you want at a cost you like, start your own DZ and sell Hop n Pops at $5. If its a good idea you'll make money. If not well, that explains why the current DZs aren't doing what you want. At the end of the day, the current DZOs are actually trying to make a living and are free to offer what ever services they like at whatever cost they want. As customers, you can accept what's on offer or go elsewhere. 'The customer is always right' isn't the same as saying the customer should set the price and the product (except by going elsewhere.). The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

JP, Thanks for the reply , makes a lot of sense. It seems to me that 'feeling' your way through the swoop is probably a combination of things which you can only get from experience. This is consistent with the advice of others to start small (say 45) and get confident i.e. built up experience and the 'feeling' before increasing the size of the turn. Blue Skies Wayne The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Thanks for the post, very useful. As a novice, I'm just starting to make some higher performance landings, double fronts, 45 degree, 90 degree front riser approaches and I have some questions. 1) How do any of your senses other than your eyes assist with HP landings? 2) Do you think that I should or shouldn't be using a digital altimeter ( optima) to assist my eyes ? 3) What is the likely variation in altitude readings? Cheers The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Great. That's beer The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

Yip, I was one of those people who went along for my first tandem for a ride. Didn't get to flare, steer, read my own altimeter etc etc. The majority of the tandem passengers/students at my DZ are early 20s tourists from overseas. They come to NZ for a holiday and travel around the country in bus loads. They skydive, bungy jump, white water raft, fly in Pitts specials, walk in the outdoors, drink too much and party hard. And yes, their skydive is a carnival ride and they enjoy it. If my first tandem had involved lots of training, then I'm sure that I would not have enjoyed it as much. There was plenty to see/feel and experience without worrying about doing anything. And finally to those who think that a skydive isn't a carnival ride because of the risk and danger, try guessing which of the above activities kill the most young tourists here in NZ. That's right, its white water rafting followed closely by walking in the outdoors. Blue Skies Wayne The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein