mccordia

again..part of the docked formation thread... But yes...this is 100% the same as lead in FS/RW/FF formations. Fly a sensible suit, sized for the performance you have to fly with your body-size. But again...no need for a collective down-grade to make things easier. Just fine-tune it to eachother. And as shown in the small lines formations so far, there is quite a bit of stretch possible in terms of what you fly, and how big/small you are. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

With myself also being the culprit for the thread-drift. Could we move discussions on docked formations, and suitable suit sizes etc. to the corresponding thread? As otherwise things get a bit hard to follow.. Dont know if a mod could cut/paste these last few messages there? JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Let me exagurate my point.. When you see me fly a Stealth2, and next to me is a guy of the same body size/weight do the same thing in an Acro2. Do I REALLLLLY need that suit to have 'some' margin. Johan is ALWAYS the one bitching about the performance after landing...you are always marketing your S3S over the nearly double sized suits. Now you're saying you're wrong, and the big tarps are always justified? The margin needed for each person to comfortably fly may be a debate on its own we shouldnt have here. But to not stray from the point. Downsizing suits to make flying in docked formations easier (which is what kallend seems to hint at), is 100% not needed. As long as everyone flies in the same performance envelope, going smaller is silly. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Its three subjects being mixed here Flying a suit sized for flying with each other in the same performance envelope. Based on height and weight, size will vary. Everybody (together) flying the smallest suit possible, to downgrade flying, and fly together easier. Which is a silly thing, which inst needed at all. Though exactly what we see in big ways (non linked as well), with higher fall rates than needed/possible. which is related to the next thing: The often heard urging for smaller suits, more related to the fact that people seem to rather fly a big one at 50% of its performance than, an adequate sized suit (for that formation/speed) at 80% or higher. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

That is exactly what I said johan... You suggesting a 120 kg guy wear the same size wingsuit as the 50 kg guy? The 5 way line often quoted had 4 guys of around 80 kg, flying an SM1, XS, Sfly Expert, Blade and (smaller lady) acro together. And James also joined one of the several 4.5 person lines we flew that day in an acro. Different sized suits, and weights dont have to be an issue. Docked formations are a seperate dicipline, we need to practice and experiment in...not one to dumb down before we've even tried properly.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

The docked 3,4, 5 ways Ive been in all had variable weights, sizes and suit models. If numbers in the hundreds are the aim...forget it.. But dowsizing or upsizing suits isnt something needed or should be worried about.. Its mostly practice and increasing skills.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

We'll ask tom to make it a setting we can alter from zero to a hundred, so its fiddle-able for testing and playing.. Once thats in place, we'll start looking at a more wide testgroup, and than hopefully quick there-after a version we can offer to everyone for public testing and playing with mutiple judging and briefing methods... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Would you regard a formation of 25, flown with a 40 cm spacing between all flyers, at a 2.0 glide and 42 mph fallrate, one thats of higher quality (skillwise) than current standards? But how would we rate that? Just having a way to validate how well a formation is flown (per any method) and attaching a score/deviation in % to that one, will do so much for future records. Not even ment to outdo or upstage current records. But just having a good measuring guide/standard for comparison. Next week we will start implementing Kallends method into the software, so its quick and easy to play with. And we want to include a few more features, and will than slowly start working towards a first (pubicly available, free) version.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

FlyLikeBrick - The Netherlands Team Oden - Sweden Oxygen Wingsuit Team - Belgium "Easy to Fly" wingsuit team - Italy pending Les Pengouins - France (?) TonySuits Factory Team - USA (?) And who else is coming for some awesome flying! Give a shout The website with the divepool will also be online shortly! JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

I think the added lift the Phantom2 gives you over the prodigy2 will be an advantage you'll need, judging your description on body build/weight. As to pressure on the arms. There is some added strain from longer flying, and use of different musscles than normal. But I wouldnt say its any different compared to normal skydiving. A lot of people experience muscle pains/cramps from over-tensing the wings, and a deathgrip on the wing/grippers. But its not something thats should happen. Regardless, should Norway not work out, and Empuria be too far...you're always welcome to drop by in Holland/Belgium (halfway down) for some fun flying.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Thinking we should downgrade our expectations, and only work on/with what we know is inside the box thinking.. Docked formations are a seperate dicipline, requiring more skill and practice than we currently have. But for sure not one to discount. Is a record worth less when the number is only 8 or 9, as opposed to 68, 100 or 400? JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

A lot of things (also for 2D formations) like lens-deformation, alternate angles and a moving picture (video etc.) IS stuff that can be included (especially software-wise) in a debriefing method. But seeing as we still havent fully mastered the basics yet. I think its important to keep things clear, to not try and solve the issues with the caravan, when we havent even sorted out the basic frame of our car.. With regards to time. Id be more tempted to actually switch it around, and use FS/FF rules in terms of time for docked formations, and demand that non-gripped formations get a flying time of at least 2 to maybe even 5 seconds of 'slot perfect flying' in. But a valid point raised as well. Regardless, video resolution will be a limit (especially if non-gripped bigways will be judged on a time-basis). The current 'record spacing' is one of the big 'resolution killers'. The detail really doubles, with every half a distance everyone flies closer. A digital measuring tape, to calculate real distances is one of the first things we'll try and impliment as well.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

That skyvan is pretty darn sweet! Im really looking forward to trying out some docked formations. Im aiming at already arriving at Z-Hills sunday morning (14th), so anyone who wants to flock, fly, play or do something fun in small coached groups. Hollah! p.s. We will also bring the software with us to F&D, and put a laptop up for people to play with their own formation pix for debrief (for non-gripped stuff). Hopefully we already have kallends method in there as well by then.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Heyhey.. The website www.wingsuitcompetition.com is now updated with the dates for the 2010 Wingsuit Competition in Italy. The final dates are: September 11-14 (saterday, sunday, monday, tuesday) There will be another website update with more information on travel, accomedation, and competition details within the next two weeks. 'Wings over Gransee' is directly after the 3D International Wingsuit Competition, giving US visitors a great oppertunity to come and play, and enter in multiple competitions. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Yes, its a combination of weight, and a thin (single) attachment point. Allowing a knot to be formed. A freefly pud is more resistant to accidental extractions of a pilotchute in the plane, and is a (personal) recomendition. As mentioned, do take into account, the unintentional spins and flips. Its always the unexpected stuff that gets you, and when things go wrong, the speeds (and resulting airflow on/around your rig) can be quite extreme. But even on old rigs, a bigger tuc-tab on the mainflap, and some mods here and there can make it a lot more secure already (we jokingly refer to it as freefly-tollerant rigs....not really freefly-friendly). The better a rig is at staying closed, and only opening when you want it to...the more it increases the chance of always performing like you'd expect it to... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Id like to ad a few points: Pull-out system is not recommendable. Throw out advisable. Preferably no Hackeyball (or other heavy handle with a thing/single attachment point). Its the cause of many cutaways, as it can entangle with the bridle, and cause a locked up/knotted pilotchute. One of the most common reasons for cutaways, yet many people still choose to use them. A freefly pud or similar handle is advisable. Have the rigger especialy pay attention to both main and reserve flap. In my personal oppinion, even with backflying in mind, have a rig that is freefly approved. You will be crawling on floors, seated tight, and be a 'special needs person' while navigating towards the door. Its easy to accidently open flaps. unstable exits and minor spins on your back may not be named backflying officialy, but in terms of airflow to/on your rig, definately worth concidering. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Depending on US border security, there will be Stroopwafels as well.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

A lot of people are curious about the next steps. All things Ive mentioned so far, as a result of the FAI meet, are suggestions and potential paths to follow. Ronald Overdijk or Henny Wiggers will post here (probably in the fresh/new Thread macca created) on the further path to be undertaken. And my appologies for a slightly wrong wording on my behalf regarding the alloted speaking time. The proper wording there would be: 'The Netherlands severly shortened their presentation, to allow USPA to present in the given timeslot. So both countries got a chance to say and show what they had to say.' That said, my gratitude and humble thanx for all the effort everyone put in. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Shouldnt affect the flight. Though taking the ribs out, will make packing easier, and also prevent breaks/tears the ribs may cause. And also not noticably change the performance.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

The process we have initiated is a long one. There will be more meetings. From what I got, there will be a FAI workgroup of 4 or 5 people, who will mostly function as a pair of ears from the FAI into our community. Its up to us to get organised and submit ideas and suggestions, and most of all...show progress.. Docked formations and the performance and artistic competition formats seem the closest candidates for FAI recognition. Seeing as those are clearer concepts with regards to judging. But also there, stuff we should/will not just throw out there without a wider community review and input. But this non gripped format is the one we should work on and tackle for sure, for dozens of reasons, but even if even only to show we can work together as a community. Without sounding to much 'sing cumbaya and hold hands', I think the past weeks struggle led to a good new direction/road we're taking.. Looking forward to whats to come. A blog/forum dedicated to the exact judging subject is probably a thing we'll also try and setup after f&d, to track, follow, inform and allow everyone to comment and give input on the ongoing proces. Setup meets. Submit feedback. Etc. And somewhere in the middle of all this, try and also jump and have fun... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Just back from our presentation. Ill write a more in depth version later today. The IPC/FAI was impressed with the sport and luckely agreed not to implement anything now. There will be a workgroup created to investigate, report and work as spokespersons for the community. There is also an interest from the USPA to sit in on any meeting/brainstorming we want to organise at Zflock, to hear everyones voice. We severly shortened our presentation, to also allow Taya to present in our timeslot. So everyone got a chance to say and show what they had to say. More details later, but first reactions are good. We now have an open road ahead of is, but one with a clear destination to aim towards. Specfic questions where asked about artistic formats and performance competitions, and an expressed wish to have us also work towards maybe seeing those diciplines implemented (in due time) as wel as a seperate 'docked formation record' catagory. So plenty of thing we should talk about and further develop.. We will look at starting a seperate blog, forum and website for further development JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

We used bridle, sewn double. It doesnt seem to flap, and be a nice presentable grip sticking out from under the bootie.. And I dont bite fingers, but have a deadly squad of ninja cats under my command that can JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

I will bring some ankle grippers to F&D to play with.. Edit in reply to DSE: Tony and Phill had loops sewn onto the sleeves for the competition. Though with the requested as hand/hand docks, the use in competition wasnt allowed. Ankle docks where not part of the conpetition this year. Though I did end up almost loosing a shoe during the comp back in 2008 due to an ankle dock JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

Its not food for regurgitation. But actual stuff quite a few people are using already.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?

This statement seems to suggest the exact opposite? Why would you want to use different criteria for judging, than the ones briefed for the formation. As others also point out, nobody flies navel to navel. Sightlines are what we use in both briefing and execution during the jump. Suddenly using a different point, that (depending on someones height) may cause deviations from the actual position flown by a person just makes no sense. I beg to differ. Give it a try on some pictures. And how would we judge pictures taken from the bottom up? The formation against a clean sky is a much better picture to judge than the topview over detailed terrain. Though both can and will be used, depending on cameraman skill/preference. I seem to recall you briefing people to look for eachothers eyelines as well? Or at least, thats how every load organiser Ive met so far does it? When did you switch to navels? Taking the head as the point of origin, the butt/navel/BOC position will cause variations, be more open to interpetation/tweaking on judging, and it doesnt match the actual reference point people are using/flying to. And depending on the photo/video (we've been looking at quite a few formation pictures lately) you will notice by trying to find definable points, that a lot of pictures (especially on bigger formations) lack resolution to properly evaluate. Even when viewed at full resolution. This gets worse when evaluating based on video. The head is the last point which is clearly defined, even when a wingsuit is only 10 pixels in size on video, you're still able to point it out. Both in terms of accuracy in judging and the actual practical realisation, its more time-consuming, less accurate and counter-productive as its much more open interpetation. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete?