bill2

I noticed you've posted a few comments concerning bikes. The same thing that happens in skydiving and small rigs happens with riders and big bikes. There's always a debate going on in the motorcycling world about when to get a bigger/faster bike and how much power is necessary. You'll have bike mag editors say that it should be left completely up to the individual and others who says that sometimes everyone needs a reality check. I tend to agree with the latter. I've only got 19 jumps in so I don't know much about canopies at this point, but I would imagine that just as in riding, egos get in the way. Not that they think they are completely invulnerable, but that they think they have the skills to handle whatever problems that rig will throw at them. The problem is that they don't have enough experience (or good friends to tell them so in a blunt fashion) to really know what will happen. I've seen/heard of guys getting really hot sport bikes and heading in to a turn way too fast and when the bike cuts loose, they can't control the power and responsiveness and end up freezing and subsequently crashing. The same with chutes I imagine. My point is we all need reality checks sometimes, because in both riding and jumping when trouble happens it happens incredibly fast. And if we don't have the relexes and skills (developed by training and experience) we end up eating it.

Yeah, I really like the H&K USP series, a H&K USP 45 Compact is my next carry gun, great gun. Although, from my experience, the Glock and the H&Ks shoot almost the same, but the Glocks seem to be more reliable (just barely and even then, they're both *really* reliable). (btw I've put around 5,000 rds through that G17 with only one mal, that was my fault, limp wristing the hell out of it screwing around) ___________________________________________ I've got an H & K USP .45 full size, and it's very reliable and accurate. No problems whatsoever. Ever do any tactical pistol courses? I've only been able to do one (Texas Pistol Academy) and am totally itching to do another... _____________________________________ I'm not sure how often you get to Nevada, but FrontSight (http://www.frontsight.com/home.html) school is about 40 minutes south of there. I've taken one 4 day pistol course, and a free sub machine gun course (free to graduates of their other courses). Great place with lots of good instructors. Also, I put 600 rds through my H & K, didn't clean it, and never had a malfunction. ________________

Congratulations!! and now you can really piss of the your lefty friends, and tell them how much you enjoyed it. Most people do, no matter where they are on the political spectrum.

My wife and I had friends over for dinner Sat night, learned how to make Sushi, downed several beers. The weather out at Byron was perfect once the early morning fog cleared off, and I made 3 jumps on Sunday. Improved my barrel rolling, since the first of the three jumps resulted in sort of a barrel roll/sumersault. And now I've done 5 jumps with my Spectre 230, and each landing gets a little better. It's definitely more responsive than the student rigs.

I got this article off of the Washington Post Online. Hard to believe. By Marc Fisher Thursday, February 7, 2002; Page B01 RICHMOND Bradley Marrs realized the folly of "zero tolerance" when a boy at his children's middle school was suspended after being caught with a plastic knife that his mother -- a teacher! -- had packed with the cake he brought to school to celebrate his birthday. Dwight Jones grew angry about zero tolerance when he saw children caught in possession of over-the-counter medications -- with their parents' permission -- "being treated as if they were carrying a gun." Marrs and Jones have the advantage of being able to do something about the blind, unthinking punishment of children who pull pranks, mistakenly bring a nail clipper to school or try to protect themselves when assaulted. Marrs and Jones, members of Virginia's House of Delegates, last week tried to persuade fellow lawmakers to add a smidgen of sense to zero tolerance laws. School systems "have basically outlawed everything," said Marrs, a Republican from Richmond. He told the House Education Committee of a high school boy -- an honor student -- who was suspended for five days for fighting off an attacker. "He did nothing wrong, and he got suspended," Marrs said. Marrs sought no revolution; he proposed only that exceptions to the zero tolerance rule be carved out for students who defend themselves, children caught possessing a plastic cafeteria utensil without threatening or attacking others and students who possess a nonprescription medication with a parent's permission. "On any given day, any number of teenage girls are walking around with a Midol in their pocketbook," Marrs said. A crime worthy of expulsion? But a procession of lobbyists representing principals and school boards defended zero tolerance as our last line of defense against terrible children eager to turn schools into war zones. A member of the Henrico County School Board, desperate to save a system that teaches children the opposite of discretion, even played the terrorism card, arguing to lawmakers that plastic utensils are a primo tool for budding hijackers. Marrs's bill died in a 13 to 8 vote. Jones, a Democrat from Richmond, was even more modest: His bill would merely spell out when a school board could use its discretion to back off from a zero tolerance punishment, permitting school officials to consider the seriousness of an infraction and the child's past behavior. "Why do we have well-trained educational leaders and then take away their ability to use their training to make a decision?" Jones asks. "A conservative agenda leans toward black-and-white solutions, but all of us who've raised children know there's nothing that's black or white." Actually, the zero tolerance issue cuts across ideological lines. Arlington Democrat Karen Darner, as liberal as they come here, voted against Marrs's bill, as did Fairfax Republican Gary Reese, who's as far to the right as any Northern Virginia delegate. Jones's bill won't go anywhere either; the education establishment will do whatever it takes to cling to its total war arsenal against the children they view as dangerous enemies. "Nobody will touch the zero tolerance policy," Jones has concluded. Which is more than a shame, because children like Benjamin Ratner are being treated with utter idiocy. When Ben was in eighth grade at Blue Ridge Middle School in Loudoun County in 1999, he was suspended for four months because he took a knife away from a schoolmate who told him she was considering suicide. The school board called Ben's action "noble" and "admirable." Then they threw him out of school. Zero tolerance, kid; you had the knife. Ben's family sued to reverse the insanity -- and lost. The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled last year that federal courts have no say on zero tolerance policies, but Judge Clyde H. Hamilton praised Ben's "common sense" and called him "the victim of good intentions run amuck." "The panic over school violence," Hamilton wrote, "has caused school officials to jettison the common sense idea that a person's punishment should fit his crime." Alas, the judge concluded he could not do anything about this; restoring sanity is the job of the legislature. God save us all.

This was a riot. I passed it along to several friends.

Don't let your age stop you. I started AFF last May, a few months before I turned 47. Just do it!. and keep in shape, it always helps, and can't hurt you.

Don't stop posting information on parachutes. I have 16 jumps and the information is helpful to me, even if it just causes me to think twice about something. I just bought my own rig, used, a spectre 230 ( weigh 223), and it's a big change from the student rigs but still manageable. there's no way for you to know how many people you've helped who read your postings. I'm always looking to learn more about every aspect of skydiving, and rigs are certainly a big part of that. Maybe you can change your name to CanopyMistress (Master? - you decide), as a sign of being reborn after the fire you went through.

I've always wanted to do it, but kept making excuses (not enough time or money), then came hang gliding for a bit, then motorcycling. Finally, my wife got me a tandem jump for my birthday in 1999, and I was hooked after that. I started in May of 2000. still scared, but loving each jump. as well as the sense of mastery as each time I get a little bit better at it.

I was watching that show also. I don't see you can get bored of "just" skydiving. I'm at that stage, 16 jumps (including 2 this Saturday on my own gear for the first time) where every jump is nervous and exciting. I don't see how they got so bored that they would want to try something like this.

I'm happy for you that there is more to your life than skydiving, but I would ask that you understand that some of us have no other interests in life and that's the way we want it. While there are many things I'd be interested in doing, personally I can only afford to do one thing other than working... my choice is jumping out of airplanes. ___________________________________ I do understand when people dedicate their lives to one thing. I think it's great. More power to you. However, my post was not about that, it was about people who dis whuffos all the time no matter what they do (or what their fears are), and talk only about skydiving (which you indicated that you don't do when talking to non skydiving friends), and seem to be doing things in public just to get attention. I plan on jumping as much as I possibly can this year, but I won't dump friends who don't jump. If they are interested, and some have been, I will be glad to talk to them about it and invite them to come out. However if I notice them entering the state of MEGO (My eyes glaze over - an old sales term I learned long ago), I will shut up.

We're skydivers. We exaggerate. It's starting to irritate me that, on a SKYDIVING forum, we can't kick back and pretend to be superior. I'm pretty sure most of us are aware we're not, in fact, better. But we do have this pretty amazing thing in common, this thing that those who haven't done it don't understand, and it's just out-and-out frustrating to spend most of your time in a world where your favorite hobby is looked at as, at best, an eccentricity. Coming here is a relief, and yeah, we're gonna talk trash. ________________________ Nothing wrong with talking trash once in awhile, but I do think it get's tiring with the same old "we're better than everyone else who doesn't skydive" attitude. I think it's just as bad to judge someone's level of involvement as it is to make fun of whuffos. People do what they can do, whether it's time, money, or fear holding them back, and who is anyone else to put them down for that? ___________________________________ It depends on their motivation. If they're giving it their best shot, and not doing well that's ok. I am criticizing poseurs, those talk it and don't walk the walk. I just disagree with you. It's not a flame. Defensive!! _________________________________ Not defensive, just ready for anything. I was laughing as I wrote that line.

I expect to get flamed for this, but that's ok. I was just reading the replies on the girlfriend problem friend, and of course the usual whuffo comments got started. Now I believe that guys/girls who belittle skydiving and don't want anyone else doing it are idiots and narrow minded, but this elitest talk about whuffos is a bit much. Too many times on this forum, I hear stuff about "I don't talk to people who don't skydive" or I bore my whuffo friends because I talk about skydiving all the time", or comments about if people don't skydive they're not worth talking to. Also, some of the comments about how you're at a party or in public and start acting like you're jumping out of a plane or dirt diving, sounds like nothing more than "hey look at me, aren't I cool?" It makes me wonder if some of these comments and actions aren't so much showing how much you love skydiving as it is just a bid for attention. I used to teach martial arts a long time ago, and now ride motorcycles a lot. In both cases, there were people who had all the trappings and jargon but who didn't really seem to enjoy those activities that much. The martial arts guys started talking like a chinese fortune cookie and wearing those little kung fu slippers and bowing all the time (but never made it to class consistently) and the motorcycle guys who bought sportbikes then purchased expensive racing suits and modifications for their bikes but never attended track schools to hone their skills. The Harley guys bought all this chrome for their bikes and lots of black leather, but rode less than a thousand miles a year, all the time making fun of motorcyclists who didn't ride Harleys. I love to skydive, am very much a beginner, but I still have other interests in life. When I hear stuff about how "all my whuffo friends get tired of my talking about skydiving all the time", I'm not suprised. If that's all you know and talk about, you end up being quite boring to be around. As for the fear factor, not everyone who is a whuffo is scared of skydiving. Some just may not be interested, some may not have the time or money. I'm sure I can find people who race motorcycles who think that most skydivers would be terrified at banging handlebars on a racetrack at 150 mph. If all they talk about is bike racing, I would find them boring also. As for danger, well try cave diving, probably the most dangerous sport in the world. I've scuba dived, and have no desire to try cave diving. Which lets me segue into my final point, which is that practically everyone is afraid of something. You may be fine with heights, but terrified of something else. Me, I can now, well pretty much, handle jumping out of a plane. I still get nervous but no where near what I felt on my AFF1. However, I have a friend who has gone caving into some really tight spots who is also deathly afraid of heights. I wouldnt' call him chickenshit or not have anything to do with him just because he will never skydive. He has done something I will never do, the caving. I'm sure that there will be a lot of people who don't like what I've written, but maybe some of those people will realize that it's because it hits a bit too close to home. Now let the flaming begin.

After getting nailed by a Daisy Cutter, Osama makes his way to the pearly gates. There, he is greeted by George Washington. "How dare you attack the nation I helped conceive!" yells Mr. Washington, slapping Osama in the face. Patrick Henry comes up from behind. "You wanted to end the Americans' liberty, so they gave you death!" Henry punches Osama in the nose. James Madison comes up next, and says "This is why I allowed the Federal government to provide for the common defense!" He drops a large weight on Osama's knee. Osama is then caned by John Randolph of Roanoke and soundly thrashed by James Monroe, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and 65 other men who love liberty and America. As he writhes on the ground, Thomas Jefferson picks him up and hurls him back toward the gates, where he is to be judged. As Osama awaits the ferry to take him to his final, very hot destination, he screams, "Aieee! This is not what I was promised!" An angel replies, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you, dumbass! What did you think I said?"

Because with round chutes you can do a couple of things. First of all getting out at 500 FT. and having a reasonable chance of surviving. Two, you can put one person out the door X2 doors per second and they most likely wont run into each other and entangle. Three, rounds are very stable so you can strap crazy shit like 50 pound mortar base plates and 6 ft long Stinger missles to people without much problem. (As long as they fit through the door) Four, they are very reliable and simple for the operator (We are talking about mostly Army Infantry guys jumping them) You only have one emergency procedure now. If you don't get a chute in 4 seconds pull the handle....Thats it...pretty simple... "It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve Martin Clay ____________________________________ Thanks

Just curious, why does the military still jump with round chutes? I've heard they are really hard on landing. Why not go to rectangular chutes like in civilian skydiving? When I was going through Advanced training in Combat Engr back in '74, our senior drill sgt who had been in the airborne during the 60's said it was like jumping off of a 3 story building everytime he landed.

Good story. A reminder to all those urbanites who think that nature is just Bambi and all the cute animals won't hurt you. I live in the bay area in CA, and in San jose where I lived a few years ago, there were 2 sightings of mtn lions in one day at a park just a few miles from where I lived.

My first jump was an AFF L1 from 14,500 out of a king air in Byron. I kept getting more nervous as our day long ground school went on. Finally we all (6 of us) started jumping late in the afternoon. I was last. The first one to jump did, landed pretty well, and came over to talk about it. She said she was so nervous that when she pulled her ripcord she let go of it. I said to myself that I would remember to keep it. The plane ride up was nerve racking. I had way more moisture coming off my palms than was in my mouth, and could barely talk to the jumpmasters. When the time came to climb out on the edge of the King Air, I though my heart was going to beat it self to death against my rib cage. I backed out of the plane, and yelled check in and check out to the two jumpmasters, turned into the wind and off we went. COMPLETE sensory overload. The wind whistling by my ears, trying to practice my ripcord pulls, and checking my altitude and direction. Every time I started getting my arch down correctly, I would try to practice the pull or check the altimeter, and then would forget to arch which would result in "potato chipping" like crazy. The 1 minute of free fall passed in just a few seconds, and then the jumpmaster, who decided we we were too far out from the landing zone to wait any longer, pointed his finger at me indicating it I was to pull NOW. I immediately thought something had gone wrong, and tried to ask what the problem was, which was of course useless at that particular time. He pointed again, and I pulled. The chute opened perfectly and I was so happy that I was going to live that I completely forgot that I had thrown away the ripcord. I didn't scream in relief, although I may have yelled in a manly fashion. I ran through my tests for control, and then relaxed a bit and enjoyed the rest of the parachute ride down. I was on radio, but could not hear everything being said, but I managed to land somewhat upright, well more on my knees than not. I got up and gathered in my parachute, and then walked back to the hangar. I stopped everyone I could to tell them I had just jumped and how incredible it was. I was flying on so much adrenaline at that point that I was still feeling the rush during the debriefing by my jumpmaster. He asked me to tell him what happened, and then he said he would tell me what really happened. I told him how I had checked in with both jumpmasters on the outside of the plane, and then turned into the wind and let go. He said, with a completely straight face, "no you wouldn't let go of the plane so we pulled you off". We finished the debriefing, I immediately signed up for the rest of the AFF, and then I drove home. After explaining what had happened to my wife, I had a beer, and as the adrenaline wore off, I feel sound asleep on the couch.

"The psychological cost is born by our soldiers...the blame belongs to all of us" Thank you! That's probably the worst part. I don't think the average person even has close to a clue what that "cost" is. I've seen it and it's not pretty. Some handle it better than others but it's definately baggage that they will carry for the rest of their lives. ________________________________________ Very true, both of you. Time magazine did a story, in the 70's I think, about war heroes and how they were in civilian life. It was prompted by a guy from Detroit getting the Medal of Honor in Vietnam for killing 50 - 60 guys in a very short period of time while charging several machine gun nests, one after another. Two years after getting out, he was killed while trying to rob a grocery store. The article went on to list similar happpenings. I'm not saying that all heroes are scum, just that their life stories are more complicated than the general public wants to believe, and that war can have a negative effect psychologically on many people.

I've got most of you beat. I started jumping last year just a couple of months before my 47th birthday. 14 jumps so far.

Thanks CJ. there seem to be more and more of those types of schools these days, that also allow civilians to train there. I have been to a couple of courses at Front Site, in Las Vegas. When I was there, there were numerous cops from various agencies. I would have thought, though, that the military would have the best training, especially at Ft Bragg, in this kind of thing. I'm suprised that those guys went outside of the military for that.

That all said.....it's still a fact that 90-100% of all "High Speed Units" on Ft. Bragg go OUTSIDE the military for firearms training. Blackwater Training Center is very popular among the units on Bragg that have the money to spend on it. _______________________________________________ Just curious, what's Blackwater Training Center?

The folks who organized our bungee jumping were 2 brothers who did the Rebock commercials involving bungee jumping (if you can remember back that far), wanted to break the world distance record for bungee jumping which at that time was held by some people in Oxford, UK. The 2 brothers took a hot air balloon up to about 5000 feet, each of them attached their feet to a 500' bungee cord and jumped off of the balloon. They fell approximately 1000' (the bungee cord stretches to twice its length). After the bouncing up and down stopped, they then cut the cords and skydived for a very short bit, and then pulled and rode their chutes in. Now that would be an adrenaline rush. I think this whole thing was written up in Sports Illustrated in '92 or so.

I did several bungee jumps about 10 years ago, and was no where near as nervous doing them as when I did my AFF L1. The jumpmaster was talking to me on the way in the plane, and I could barely talk to him. The bungee jumping required no skill; we had about 10 minutes of instruction. I was the first to go in my group, and just climbed over the railing of the bridge, looked down, and dove. It was fun but didn't even compare to skydiving. We were doing back when it was illegal, and were jumping in the Sierra Nevada mtns near Angels Camp. The guys organizing the jump had people with walkie talkies at each end of the canyon so the police couldn't nail us. It added to the fun a little. Later on we were going to bungee jump the Golden Gate bridge, but the FBI went after the guys organizing it, so that never came about. I haven't gone on a roller coaster since I started skydiving, but I doubt it will be as much fun as jumping.

All of my 14 jumps, and my tandem, have been from 14,5 to 15K in a King Air. I have never noticed any problems with O2 deficiency. I think Skydance at Davis still does jumps from 30,000, but I'm not sure.