Trae

in reply to "Stunt is not a negative word. It just implies its not something any wingsuit pilot can just 'give a try'. I see a lot of beginners asking about big wingsuits and XRW while they should be learning to fly closer to another persion in formation, instead of 6 ft apart, and learn to do fully in control docks on another wingsuit flyer. " ........................................ YES, it is a very dangerous stunt for the inexperienced wannabees you describe. for other people doing it systematically, and with due caution, it appears to be developing into a sport. Pretty amazing one at that. There is a good chance this crossover sport, ie XRW , could produce new unique equipment eg imagine if the canopy and WS were mutated into one thing. sort of a canopy/wingsuit. Not a good idea to stand in the way of progress.

in reply to "Maybe tie it into a helmet with a heads up display. They have those gunshot detectors that can sense where a shot came from and display direction, maybe something like that. " ..................................... Bats do that ultrasound thing giving them a 3D representation within a certain range. We've got something similar but its dormant, generally undeveloped. I've navigated in totally dark caves purely by this hidden sense of ours. Its freaky, but after a while you can tell where the walls are and stop before bumping into them, all in absolute pitch darkness. You can practice this in a darkened room with eye coverings , but it has to be totally black. It works better if you are moving VERY slowly , crawling around like a bug, chirping a bit quietly then its easier to pick up on this extra sense of ours. While we're brainstorming , perhaps some ultrasonic emitter/reciever hooked up to a visual and auditory decoder could provide a person with a constant extra sensory 3D picture of the hazards around us. Snakes too , must put out some ultrasound or something similar , cause when they're around I always get scared BEFORE I see them.

in reply to "What about having a small speaker in each ear, and if the system could detect not only the range, but the direction of other devices, it could beep in a stereo mode, so you could know which side to pay attention to... " ........................... Proximity alarm. mmm might have something there. perhaps in the future, when we are all permanently hooked up via gps, this could provide warning of a potential collision, in freefal and under canopy. Stereo sound providing speed of approach and direction. The music in your ears could be sweet when everything is good, but get scary when danger loomed sort of like sound in the movies The approach of the ground could be the earth rumbling in your ears. The algorithms would be fun for some maths genius to devise.

There's an excellent article on XRW by Niklas Daniel, Barry Holubeck and Will Kitto, ( in the Australian Skydiver Magazine Issue 57) Thanks for sharing guys Their words... " Before you go out and attempt an activity you know nothing or little about , it is wise to seek out information from people who have already gained some experience in the field. There are still a lot of unknowns and safety is of great concern. So please , make sure that you and your partner are qualified and approach this activity with extreme care. Having someone next to you in freefall while being suspended underneath your canopy is a fun experience."

Thanx, Obviously got a long way to go before real XRW, like most of us I guess. and how long is the wait for an Xbird2 gunna be now Still we might learn somehing here if we're lucky. Can you describe the wingsuiters job at the stage shown in the attachment ? It seems that the WS is flying blind requiring the CP to do the final closing. (CP ends up rodeoing the WS.) Is this achieved by the CP altering body position/harness control while the WS maintains super steady flight or does the wingsuiter do most of the fine closing adjustments? ( got a feeling you're gunna say both..depending ) The vids I've watched show lots of body control eg arching ,from the CP's but very steady flight from the WS at least close in. So the WS does the outer approach , stops, and then flies super steady. ?? Once in the close approach is it better for the CP or WS to do the inching in? I'm guessing the emphasis shifts from one to the other but can you describe when it shifts? eg if WS goes blind does CP take over relativity tasks? Perpendicular bodies flying relative ...what's next

Hi Medusa, Are Xbirds the most (only ?) suitable wingsuit for XRW? Coupla of us out this way are interested in doing some but have Vampires. Not in any particular hurry to get dead tryin but do want to have a go at this as safely as poss. yes have read articles and researched . can you suggest some training initiatives? I'm thinkin the canopy pilot has to work much harder than the wingsuiter. Is this true? haven't done any real rel yet but quite a bit of flyin past the tandem line. Any start up ideas appreciated.

in reply to "We are looking for people with good flocking skills, approach, maneuverability, range and a good disposition to learn. We need responsible, conservative individuals. (No cowboys wanted in here) If you know anyone who's got some of these characteristics please let us know. " .................................... Medusa Get Killed or Die Trying! " .......................................... I know some that are a bit scared off by your sig line..................

in reply to "IMO it changes nothing, he is still right." ................................ Totally agree. He landed safely . wasn't injured. only had to go collect some plastic and bits of metal from the paddock. Some-one probably did it for him. And then he shared the lesson with the rest of us. How much more perfect a jump can you get? Well done mate.

in reply to "Turn the wind around, and it adds to your groundspeed, so the 11 mph wind plus the 11 mph airspeed gives you a 22 mph groundspeed. When landing downwind your groundspeed = airspeed = wind speed. " .............................. Just a slip of the shift key When landing/flying downwind your groundspeed = airspeed + wind speed.

in reply to "I was wondering, with the benefit of hindsight, what the general view is on during which period of time it was 'most safe' to be a skydiver. " ........................... It might be safer in freefall but more dangerous under canopy. However for me I felt the safest when I had a 7cell main and a round reserve. I did over 1000 jumps on the same F111 canopy which never malfunctioned. !000 deployments in a row like clockwork. It took a little longer to open by the time it had 1000 jumps on it but had only needed a new slider and still had the same lines. The reserve stayed like brand new. Oh, I REALLY looked after my gear...and still do. I've never got the same feeling back that rig gave me. Every other rig has chucked a wobbly within a couple of hundred jumps. The nearest feeling is supplied by my base gear. It is built so well and tough...just like the old days. Slow but dependable.

in reply to "I've wondered how much this may have contributed to those seemingly unexplainable low cutaways. " .............................. There's an old yarn, most likely true, goes like there were two people flying their parachutes near each other. One called out "GOOD DAY". The other one automatically cutaway. People stopped calling out so much under canopy after that happened. Doing the handle thing is very important for EP practice but inserting the imagined mal is just as important, especially if you're gunna get all semi-automatic on yourself.

in reply to "If you had bothered to read the entire post, you would have seen this- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can fly camera, a wingsuit, or become a TI or AFF instructor with 500 jumps, but that's a drop in the bucket if your goal is to become a 'swooper'. 500 jumps is the 'warm up' you need to get started with swooping" ........................................... Well, I did read your entire post, and agreed with most of it. praps the superlatives messed with my comprehension. can't disagree with the fact that it takes swoopers many jumps to get their time up. You're familiar with high level competition relative work. How would you compare the two in terms of experience gathering.? Time is one way I suppose. So rounding out .. swoopers get as you say about 10 seconds actual swooping per jump? Relative workers get say 50 seconds (rough estimate to make the maths easy. Is it as simple as saying it takes about 5 times as many jumps to get proficient at swooping as it does for 4 way ? Of course there are many other variables in the two learning processes, but if I was guiding a newbie would that be a reasonable thing to tell them? as an estimate ? There seems to be a distinct tendency for skydivers not wanting to serve their apprenticeship but just go straight to tradesperson or even manager. Good on you for setting some high standards for getting into swooping.

in nreply to "....one most important things he said was if you expect bad stuff to happen, it likely will. This is supposed to be fun, go learn jump smile then jump again. " .............................................. If you don't expect it when it happens you get surprised...frightened even ....somtimes downright terrified...I've seen people totally frozen in fear (CRW wrap). They weren't expecting or ready for the bad stuff. Good preparation deals with the expected problems leaving you more able to enjoy yourself, knowing you can deal with problems if /when they arise. You don't wanna go stickin' your head in the sand in this sport. Bad stuff happens ...expect it ..be ready for it if it happens near you. It can still be fun if you expect bad things to happen That's the true reality of our sport , bad things can and DO happen. They don't happen BECAUSE you expect them. They don't happen all the time but can happen just about ANY time. If they do, you want to be ready for it, not blissfully skydiving away until.......... but then ignorance can be blissful, I think the most important thing he told you was .. Have fun

in reply to "HP canopy flight, as we know it today, represents the highest end of the sport in terms of required training and experience to get there. " ....................................................... You're kidding right ? HP canopy flight the highest end? higher than relative work, CRW, freeflying , wingsuiting , etc ??? . Any of these disciplines can take a lifetime to master and then you get smart enough to realise you haven't mastered them at all and never will. Consistent , HP canopy flight truly demands a high level of training . but so too do the other disciplines. You place HP canopy flight above the rest?? Why ?

in reply to "A small uncocked skydiving PC might not have enough umff to pull a canopy out of a d-bag. Now there is even more shit behind you that the reserve can get entangled with. There is no reason to burn up altitude if the bridle is misrouted or hung up on the container since those probably won't clear. If the suit has long grippers, they can wrap with the bridle. There is just no good reason to do in air rigging in a WS unless you have no other option." .............................................. I agree, with an uncocked PC it seems very likely you may be wasting your time to attempt a manually assisted deployment (quite different to inflight rigging) . What if you KNOW your pc has been cocked because you can remember doing it just like every other time....and therefore it MUST be entangled ? and you KNOW you are above 4000' and still flying? because you just pitched at 4500' from full flight. See how he brought his right arm/hand down over the top of the container , trapped the bridle from above, and dragged the bridle and PC out into clear air...all the while still flying. the bridle easily cleared his hand and grippers. His grippers are out of the way just like for a normal deployment , in fact , his recovery movement is very similar to a normal deployment movement. YES, we can learn from this guy ! What if your reserve PC got caught in the burble and entangled and didn't lift off? It might get entangled with the psycho uncocked/entangled main pc still floating there...and say then there wasn't enough drag to get the freebag out. Lots of 'what ifs' here but that's what a cluster phuck can be like....phucked up. Do we as wingsuiters know how to deal with these possibilities ? Sure go the EP's . If that don't work . What then? Go in from 3000' entangled attempting REAL inflight riggin with a perhaps non-existent hook knife.? I'm thinking for an experienced wingsuiter it may be worthwhile having some practice at these movements. Then you've got another option if you need it and can decide for yourself when if ever to use it.

in reply to ".........Not to mention all the stuff that hit my face and goggles in freefall before I learned to offset. " .................................... thats gotta be a workplace health and safety issue. Is there a case for TM's wearing full face, hermetically sealed helm ....and long gloves as well ? of course it'd be too hot , it doesn't happen often enough etc and yep, I've copped a couple of spewers but then learnt not to spiral the canopy.

in reply to "I wouldn't suggest trying to pop the pin yourself. The flopping bridle could wrap your hand. If you did open the container, no guarantee the bag would open with an uncocked PC. Now you've burned altitude and might have nothing to show for it except less distance above the ground. Leave rigging for the ground and follow your EPs. " ..................................................... For newbie wingsuit training , I agree with the above. For advanced wingsuit training , I agree with the attachment. sourced from basejumper.com

in reply to "A guy much smarter than me named Bryan Burke gave him a gear check on the ground before he hopped back in. When I get smarter they will let me make all of the decisions at Skydive Arizone. " ............................................... OK it was dumb of me to say YOU, I should 've said THEM. but I see their wisdom..... you sorry they , wanted him to hang around at least long enough for all the free beer he was gunna buy.

in reply to "The pull test is also a Destructive Test rather than the claimed Non-Destructive test by PIA. " .................................... On my reserve there is a small stain on the F111 . My rigger does a thumb test on every repack. It looks like he's trying to push his thumb through the fabric. I'm wondering if the F111 will eventually be destroyed by his testing it all the time. It has passed so far but is his (somewhatbrutal) testing making it weaker each time?

in reply to "Holy Crap! He actually forgot his rig in his haste. We taxied back to manifest so he could get his gear on. " ............................................. You let that guy jump with you ? after he forgot to put his gear on.? I've seen people try and go skydiving without any equipment a few times now. Those people don't skydive anymore...not near me. They're about the biggest type of idiot you can meet in this sport. IMHo .if you see one don't be on a plane with them or their stupid mates. Sure, taxi back if you have to , but only to kick them out of the aircraft. You waited while he went back and put his rig on? Not sure who's dumber...

Good save . Just wondering did it occur to you mid-mal , to try and dislodge the pin by reaching around and manually pulling the bridle ? Not saying you should've. You obviously handled it successfully. I was having some poor deployments a little while ago, and on one was just thinking I might have to reach back, when it lifted off. Anyone know how it might go if you popped the pin manually with a deflated PC?

in reply to "My questions to you still stand. It sounds like your DZ's have their shit together. What are they doing differently besides imparting 'old school wisdom'? If they can be a model for others, why not share their secret to success" ...................................... No big secret , they're just well led by people that know what they're doing. The dominant feature of these DZ's is a very clear and definite chain of command. Leader out front . A couple of them , learnt the hard way, with a trail of fatalities and injuries. REAL fatalities and REAL incidents that shook em up a bit and knocked some sense into them as well. as far as their specific canopy requirements. They apply normal licence requirements ,seems to work OK if STRICTLY adhered to . No short cuts. These requirements were originally designed with slowish canopies in mind but still apply to the type of canopies newbies should be flying. Proven consistent accuracy on a canopy is still a fair indication of basic canopy control skills . People can try to cheat a bit but it shows up when they can't land properly. Under the watchful eye of the CI , instructor and the rest of the DZ, all is revealed. If the time honored respect for measured progression is instilled in a student then they seem to have less trouble working their way steadily through the steps required to make them a proficient canopy pilot. Some DZ's just seem to handle this more naturally without undue haste . Feels safer there.

in reply to "So, you have instructors with different skills and interpretations of 'conservative or safe' and some experienced jumpers who no longer care. ..................................... Not being directly responsible is different from not caring. Who's responsibility is it to effectively guide newbies through to a level where they are safe to make their own choices? ....I wonder? ....perhaps the people taking money for services and goods ?? of course most experienced people will help, they just might not force their help on you. Got rules for that stuff havn't we?.

in reply to "I have around 2700 jumps and have a my IAD, tandem, coach, and pro rating. I also shoot video. I also have a family. " ......................................... Do you have access to any $$$$$. You might be better off starting a small DZ. Hanging out at a DZ with all the other bums waiting in line for some table scraps might not suit a bloke with a wife and kids...depends on the DZ I suppose. One way to jump the queue is to bring something with you, eg more students, passengers. Instead of waiting in line with the wannabees develop your busness brain. I've known quite a few people who have successfully started and run DZ's. Not just tandem factories but real skydiving DZ's. They were just ordinary skydivers with a decent bit of business sense. They started small with 182's and built their way up having a great time as they did it. Might not be rolling in cash all the time but they created a very good lifestyle for themselves and get to skydive every day after breakfast...if they want to. One guy's family did it with him and their DZ feels like a treat, welcoming, like a friendly country family. Another successful full-time skydiver purchased his own student and tandem gear and sub-contracted out of a larger DZ. He did his own advertising and collected his passengers and students and arrived at the DZ all self contained . he made a nice bit of money as well with minimlal overheads to worry about. Just saying you might not have to work FOR some-one else....might work better if you get to work WITH some-one else.

in reply to " I Think I got it. 1st We blame the ski manufacturers for allowing people easy access to these fat skis without checking their experience level when they sell them to them. 2nd We blame the Rental shop for renting them fat skis without checking what skis they were on before. 3rd We blame their ski instructor, saying they didn't give them proper training about fat skis and when they should put them on. 4th We blame the Resort for letting them on the mountain with such fat skis 5th We blame the U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association for not providing proper guidance or not publishing solid guidelines on experience levels for small, medium and fat skis . What we don't do, is blame the ski-er, who made poor gear choices. He's not culpable or responsible for his decisions. He's not responsible for anything at all! And then you can change fat Skis, to Small Canopies, Big Wingsuits, etc, and argue all over again" ......................................... Blame the victims ? nice one that, works well for abusers and institutionalised crime. Of course its got nothing to do with the people making, advertising and selling the things. How could they possibly be responsible when its so obvious they're totally irresponsible. Like giving a kid a loaded gun and saying " He paid for it , so what's it got to do with me?" The users/payers/consumers are all being guided towards inappropriate products and making bad decisions after being encouraged to do so by fashion misconceptions pushed on them by uncaring marketing mercenaries that create performance expectations perpetuated by aggressive marketing of products designed for experts but sold to neophytes . Bad products have been foistered on the public before ... until they wised up. eg Trikes (tricycle motor bikes ) killed quite a few people tipping over and generally misbehaving. Of course it was the fault of the rider, only it wasn't the fault of the rider. those things were inherently dangerous and would even kill an expert rider quite happily. them got banned..but replaced with something better , less inclined to tip over and kill the rider....... ie , the quad bike. Silly experts can keep using the trikes if they're stupid enough. How to protect a dangerous product from being banned? easy, just blame the victim not the product and make that mindset part of the marketing ploy. If you brainwash the right people everyone gets brainwashed....sort of. playing the blame game is fun eh? To play it properly you have to believe that some-one is actually to blame. Finding that some-one's IS the game. Where's my trike .......