MikePelkey

************************* Problems started back in 1966 when the first known BASE jump was made in a National Park. It's been painful ever since.....maybe someone else can elaborate. ************************* I can elaborate on that. The rangers confiscated our gear and camera/film and didn't allow us to leave the park for several days so they could research their laws. Back then they were not able to turn up any regulations that prohibited jumping from their mountaintops. They reluctantly returned our gear and camera after the hearing and allowed us to leave. The park commissioner told the press that "A check failed to turn up any regulations prohibiting jumping, but there will be --- and soon" They also falsly quoted me as actually having said: "I hope no one ever tries it again - - I know I won't". Those words definitely did NOT come from me. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************** Because of that, a tersh type deployment where the canopy is manually thrown out to the end of the lines would be much more effective than pulling the r/c on a chest mount and hoping the spring mounted pc will take the canopy out. ************************** Actually the old 24' chest packs had no pilot chute or sleeve. They were nothing more than a canopy packed neatly in a small container. They opened as soon as they hit the air, in what seemed to be hundreds of times faster than the old round main parachutes. You basically continued freefalling for the length of the lines. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************************ I hadn't thought about (1) clean airflow for better tracking, but I do tend to disagree with 2-4. What's to disagree with? With respect to (4), I certianly haven't trained a bellymount into my procedures, and I suspect the same is true of most other jumpers. With respect to (2), most of the jumps I do around here are a 3-second delay with impact at ~5 seconds, and I suspect 1-2 seconds is too little to deploy a bellymount. With respect to (3), my recollection of Nick's list is that object strike does, in fact, dominate, and that other situations in which a reserve would not have helped (low pull / no pull, for instance) make up the bulk of the remainder. Of course, a partial mal would be slower and would give more time. Most partials are already treated by, for instance, the line release mod and WLO toggles. ******************************* Everyone on this site has more recent BASE jumping experience than I have. I certainly wouldn't presume to be an expert. All I intended to convey was that it has been my experience that it only takes a second to get a chest pack reserve out when it is needed. Even if a high percentage of fatalities are due to object strikes, that still leaves a percentage that aren't, however small. I saw a lot of malfunctions in Johnny Utah's Bridge Day safety video. It just seems to me that there are occasions when a reserve might come in handy. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

_____________________________________ A couple thoughts: (1) It greatly impedes your track. The belly mount is right where you need clean airflow. (2) Your likely to be too short on altitude or time to use it. (3) The major problems in BASE all have to do with object strike--not the lack of a reserve. Adding a reserve to the system is fairly unnecessary (look up the sorcerer BASE rig, which had a reserve, and you'll see that it has never gained in popularity, mostly for this reason). (4) 99% of us have never trained in how to use a belly mount reserve, and haven't built it into our reflexes. ___________________________________ I hadn't thought about (1) clean airflow for better tracking, but I do tend to disagree with 2-4. My observation is that malfuctions do occur with ram-air technology. Having a reserve to attempt to get open to save your life when all else fails, regardless of altitude or training makes sense to me. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

_____________________________________________ Why not have D rings or something similar for a reserve? _____________________________________________ I'm rather an old timer and I have been thinking the same thing. Obviously the old 24' chest mount reserves are extremely simple and very quick to open. What could possibly be a problem with wearing one just in case you may need it? I'm sure someone will provide an answer that makes all the sense in the world (making this a dumb question). I truly doubt that BASE jumpers omit the reserve simply because they are too cool. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

____________________________________ Burning up on re-entry... blah. Some things are just too cool to worry about little details like that. I bet with a wingsuit your speed would be low enough that you could make use of insulating material of some type. ____________________________________ Oh yes. I forgot to mention that Kittenger completely disintegrated by 4,000 feet. All that was left of him was his oxygen bottle, but hey, you have to take the bitter with the sweet. At least he got the record In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

_______________________________________ Did you know you appear in the wikipedia ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASE_jumping your name is there but when you click on it, your entry contains no info, maybe you can fill it out. wikipedia articles can be created and edited by anyone. anyone know who originally wrote the wikipedia article on BASE ?, is also a good article on Carl boenish (spelling), and a few other base related things, I can't seem to find the 102,000ft skydive, maybe someone who has a lot of info on it can add that article __________________________________ Yes, Our El Cap jump in 1966 appears in a lot of online encyclopedia. Both Jean Boenish and Nick Di Giovanni have told me that Carl had thought about our initial El Capitan jump for years before he started BASE jumping some 12 years later. I was of the impression that Nick D wrote the original article that has been copied over to all the sites that talk about the history of BASE jumping. He sent me copies of a bunch of newspaper articles about the jump. I know he was the author of lots of web pages that talked about it. You can easily find information on Kittenger's tall jump. Just key in Kittinger helium balloon on any search engine. There was a book written about him called: "The Man Who Rode the Thunder". You can do the same thing regarding our El Cap jump by keying in the keywords: Pelkey BASE history. I usually use Google because it seems to be able to find anything I look for, but I think any of them will find lots of articles. If you have any trouble wite me. mike@destiny.com In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

___________________________________________ What I think would be cool though, is a super high jump where your terminal velocity is several hundred miles per hour. That is going to be a pretty wild ride. Better nail your exit though. ______________________________________________ Here's an interesting jump you may or may not have heard about: Captain Joe Kittenger leapt from a helium balloon 102,800 feet above the Earth in August, 1960. He reached a speed of 714 miles an hour during his 19 mile freefall. Now that was a cool jump. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

______________________________________ It wasn't their first jump, but I believe they underestimated how thin the air was going to be at that altitude which is what resulted in the tumbling. (seeing as noone had made a zero speed exit from that altitude before I guess) _________________________________________ Actually, on August 16,1960, six years before Brian Schubert and I jumped the El Cap, Captain Joseph W. Kittenger rode a helium balloon to the edge of space, 102,800 feet. He exited at 110 degrees below zero (near vacuum), accelerated to 714 mph, and freefell for 4.5 minutes to open at 14,000 feet. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

---------------------- I was browsing around Wikipedia as I sometimes do and decided to do a search on BASE jumping. This may be one of the best "external" discussions of BASE jumping that I've seen. Enjoy! Anyone know who contributed to that entry? Whoever it is did an excellent job. ------------------------------- I got the feeling that this was originally written by Nick Di Giovanni after I embarassed myself by complaing about the inaccuracy ot the written accounts of our original jump off the rock. He didn't actually identify himself as the writer, but indicated that I may have been a little harsh in my complaints, since there was little information available at the time. Sorry about that Nick In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

------------------------- Trivia question: Does anyone know what Jean Boenish wanted the acronym to be when they were first coming up with it? (Tom and 460 are dq'd from this because I know they know the answer -------------------------- I liked BEST jumping," says Carl's wife Jean Boenish. "it stood for Building, Earth, Span and Tower," but Carl keeps searching the dictionary until he comes upon the word BASE. At first nobody liked the fact that when using the word BASE a tower would need to be called an antenna, nor does Jean like the second definition of BASE which is, "Evil and vile." However the first definition is, "A platform on which something stands," but it really becomes a done deal the first time Carl looked up at the group and uttered the phase, "BASE jumping," for the very first time. Later, one of the jumpers present said, "It was a moment that sent chills down everyone's spine." In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

____________________________________ ____________________________________ This is NOT what took place at all. Brian was first out. His canopy collapsed and forsook him for the last 50-100 feet or so before he landed in the rocks below and injured his feet. He left his equipment behind and headed for the road right away. I landed like a feather but had already sustained a minor ankle fracture due to a poor choice in dealing with the side winds trying to kick myself away from the face. Brian definitely did NOT notify the NPS rangers that I was lying seriously injured at the base of the mountain. He just told them I was on my way out. I started walking to the road after I field packed both of our chutes. The ambulance was waiting for me when I got to the road. Most of the newspaper accounts of our jump were very obviously heavily biased in favor of the park. Mike Pelkey In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

_____________________________ Nice interesting thread. Did You and Brian do a 2 way ? If not, did you two think about doing a 2 Way ?. As I might of missed something reading this expanded thread. My mind has not been so Bright Lately. Thank You _____________________________ Hi Gerald, I'm assuming the term 2-way indicates a two-man hookup. We didn't consider doing anything fancy. We didn't actually stage the exact exit sequence in advance. Our intention was to be the first to "initiate" the El Capitan, nothing more, nothing less. Brian actually jumped about two or three seconds before me. I had the advantage of being able to watch him through the entire descent. Needless to say it was an awesome experience. It of course never occurred to us that there would be such a thing as El Cap 1 and El Cap 2 vearly 40 years later. Carl had me as first and Brian as second in the certificates he prepared for us before he died. We never met so we obviously never discussed the jump with him. We straightened it out with Jean when we met her so Brian would get the top honor for the record. Mike Pelkey In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

QuoteYou guys are also welcome to free spots in my class, if you want them. I'd love to have you talk to the class a little about your jumps, and what was going on back then. [reply/] Tom, Thank you for your kind offer. If your classes don't coincide with Johnny's, I'd love to sit in on both of them

You guys are so great! I wish I had met all of you years ago. Thanks -Mike In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Nick, Is there any possibility you still have the newspaper clipping? My copies disappeared many years ago. I'd love to have a copy. Mike Pelkey In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Thanks Johnny, Speaking for myself I'll be happy to take you up on your generous offer. I'm not sure that Brian will be jumping though. I talked with him this morning and he hasn't committed to doing it yet. Plan B includes challenging his courage. Brian is the poster boy for fearlessness and I'm sure a challenge will work if I have to use it. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

That would be great Nick. I'd really hate to have my hair get wet and wind up with a bad hair day. I wouldn't dream of jumping if I thought I might get my hair wet. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Nick, I actually have made one jump with a square canopy so I AM experienced. It was an awesome experience for me. They called it a "wing" at the time. I faintly remember hearing it referred to as the "Rogallo Wing". I'm assuming it is the same technology. Let me know if I'm wrong about that. I haven't made a jump in 35 years or so but I'm sure it is just like riding a bicycle - you never forget how. I have put in my request for a jump ticket on Bridge Day. I'm not sureQuote I can talk Brian into jumping. He just had back surgery a month or so ago and may not be ready for it by October 15. Regards, Mike Pelkey In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Nick, Thanks for the nice letter. I scanned the forum for information on Bridge Day. It appears that I may have missed the deadline for a ticket to make a jump. I'm sure I could talk Brian into it as well if we were able to get tickets. Neither of us have any gear these days, but we may be able to improvise something by October 16. Maybe someone has a couple of old TU's to loan us. I'd be right at home with one. Let me know if you have any ideas in that regard. In any event I will be thrilled to attend the event. I know Brian would love it too. Regards, Mike PelkeyQuote In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Tom, There were three of us on the El Capitan jump: Brian Schubert, myself and Jim Cleary. Jim was not a jumper. He was there to take pictures. Unfortuneately he didn't do a great job. The film was developed by Life magazine. Life rejected doing the story as soon as they saw the pictures. I was told that Life is essentially a "picture" magazine, and they didn't like the quality of the pictures. Looking back we should have forseen the public interest side of it and taken along better camera equipment. Oh well, live and learn.... In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Ray, I can answer that. The first baton pass was accomplished in 1964. I remember it well because Jim Brewer and I had been within inches of being first on several jumps when another couple of guys beat us to the punch. Brewer and I actually had a successful baton pass within a few days after the event made skydiving history. Everyone in the sport was working on it in those days.Quote In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Hi Base587, Yes Brian Schubert and I made the very first El Capitan jump on July 24, 1966. There are numerous sites referencing the jump. Just key in: "Base Jumping History" on any search engine. Most of the information about it is inaccurate, such as: the spelling of my last name, the exact date, the extent of our "injuries", etc. We did not do it with the intention of starting a new sport. It was just something that had never been done before. Regards, Mike Pelkey, El Cap 2[email] In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny