MikePelkey

Nick, Please invite me next time. I'll leave the boss at home (and maybe buy a pack of cigarettes before I get there). I'm sure you know I would have LOVED to be there when you guys made your jumps. Thanks again. The dinner was great and the company greater, as always. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Hi all, Walt Shearer (probably not spelled right) ran the California City, California DZ back in the mid to late sixties. Is he still around jumping these days? I would love to contact him. If anyone knows how to reach him please let me know. Thanks, Mike Pelkey In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

I got this straight from the horses' mouth. Heather Swan wrote me this morning: "We jumped from 6604m, just under the summit of Mt Meru (around 21700ft) and landed at 15,800ft. We free fell for 45 seconds before opening our canopies at around 900ft. The World Record is for the highest exit point." I believe there may be an error somewhere in her numbers though. I get a total of 5,900 feet top to bottom (21,700 - 15,800). They were jumping with wingsuits however, so maybe 45 seconds is possible for that range of altitude. I'm going to write her back and see if I can clarify this. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Who agrees with postponing registration for a week or so to give Jason time to get his server running? This would also counter the obvious free-for-all that is sure to ensue if some of us keep trying until it works, while the rest of us have our backs turned. Or if anyone has any better ideas I think it would probably be a good time to mention them. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

I believe it is a fair statement that I have been a BASE jumper longer than anyone else on the planet. Brian Schubert and I made the first jumps off the El Capitan on July 24, 1966. I made my second jump at the Bridge Day '05 event, nearly forty years later. I know you're looking for BASE jumpers who have a bunch of birthdays under their belts (I'm just a 66-year-old kid) and a bit higher number of jumps, but I couldn't resist tooting my horn on this subject. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

*************************** Jeez with this and another thread I'm following on a breach of ethics......I understand the frustration and concern....but frankly the response is just as childish and overdone.... *************************** I make a motion that we reward everyone who makes nice mature posts on this subject with a gold star on their forehead In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

The old 24' belly mount reserve that we used from the early to mid 60's had neither a pilot chute nor a sleeve. It was not designed for comfort at all. Opening shock at terminal velocity was quite extreme and, due to its front harness mounting, tended to bend you backward quite sharply. It was deployed from a ripcord handle mounted on the front of the pack. The instant it caught air you were open with absolutely no hesitation. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************************* They just pay the packer X $ and tell him / her "i've got a 20 minute call to make, can u make it happen?" ************************************* I'm getting very confused. Are we talking about making packing their chute happen or making packing their parachute happen? Please elaborate In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************************* Tom Manship was the only guy I knew who called them "chutes" and he was almost as old school as you. ************************************* Okay, I give up. By the way, whose idea was it to call jumps that reached terminal velocity "TERMINAL" jumps? Something eerie about that. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

And please don't say "TARP"... Its called a TARPAULIN! In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************************** Dont borther about the oldies theyre as weired as our parents ************************************** Don't blame us oldies. We always called them chutes. Does no one pack their chute anymore, or do they only refer to it as packing their parachute? In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

**************************** I apologise for asking such a stupid question and referring to a parachute as a "chute". I won't post again until I know what I'm talking about. I'm sorry! **************************** I'm not sure I understand the ubiquitous deference to the use of the word "chute". Are we supposed to call the PC a "pilot parachute"? Wouldn't that make it a PP? In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************************** I recall one jumper who was jumping a para-comander in Utah (back in the 70's). The wind came up, and he was probably knocked out on landing, then he was drug to death. There was a reason everyone wore a heavy duty helmet back then....Steve1 ************************************** Steve, You're probably right about the inherent danger in messing with the capewells close to ground. I was thinking of the more severe high wind conditions where you may not make the maneuver quite right and need to release your canopy before touchdown to avoid getting drug to death if it looks like you may end up being knocked cuckoo. It was almost never necessary to do a full 180 hook landing. I have only done it once that I recall in an extremely windy landing. In that particular case I did half release my capewells just prior to landing. I was very fortunate to land like a feather standing up as one of the airport's wind socks flew past me, and completed the capewell release as soon as I touched down. Most of the time the bigger winds let you get away with the diagonal hook approach you brought up in your post. Releasing capewells was not the main part of my post. I'm only trying to get someone else to agree with us that reducing airspeed in the holding orientation didn't really make for easier landings. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************************** But later I learned to run with the wind and then hook it into the wind at the last moment (on my para-commander). With the long lines and big oscillation from a turn, you could land without backing up. But then again you had to time it just right. ************************************** Yes Steve, now you're talking. Thank you. If you dissect hooking it in in a high wind you get the following: 1. You are approaching the target in the holding orientation to keep from flying to the next county. 2. At (hopefully) the perfect distance above the ground you execute a 180, turning into the running orientation. 3. The canopy surges forward and you swing out behind it. 4. When you are stretched out behind the canopy as far as you are going to stretch you pull another quick 180 turn. You swing hard under the canopy and higher up than you were on the first turn. 5. Now in a pendulum approach you are swinging forward (toward the target). The canopy is still being blown back with the wind, but you are countering that movement by simultaneously swinging forward. It is a good idea to pop one half shot of one of the capewells at this point. 6. As you touch down you are at the maximum drive against the wind, considering that you are in a holding position and you are subtracting the pendulum drive from the difference between the wind speed and the parachute's inherent airspeed. Pop the other half of the half-popped capewell as soon as you touch down. This is the greatest air speed you can possibly attain in the holding position. Decreasing either the speed of the pendulum effect or the inherent speed of the canopy will obviously cause an increase in your landing speed. 6. You will land at the lowest ground speed possible 100% of the time if you land in the holding orientation with respect to the wind. In a zero wind condition holding speed will be equal to running speed. For any non-zero wind speed, holding groundspeed will be lower than running groundspeed. In my day no one in their right mind landed running with the wind on purpose, unless they were in accuracy competition. ParaCommanders were constructed differently. The peg lines were called brake lines, and had a different effect than the old modified T7A military chutes. If anyone disagrees with my description of the function of a full 180 degree hook landing, please let me know. If I am missing out on any part of it, I'd love to be corrected. I doubt if it would work at all if it didn't work exactly the way I explained it above. Please note that the description above is intended as an example of why it is better to maximize your ground speed when holding and to minimize your ground speed when running. Also note that what I objected to from the very beginning of this thread was the premise that "pulling rear risors" made for softer landings. Obviously in zero wind conditions it doesn't matter whether you are running or holding, and pulling rear risors would soften your landing. That is because in zero wind there is no such thing as holding; you are always running no matter which direction you are facing. Whenever you are running, slowing down the groundspeed contributes to a softer landing. However whenever you are holding, slowing down the groundspeed contributes to a harder landing. The moment wind becomes non-zero, a holding orientation exists, and theroretically there is an optimal orientation to approach the target. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

************************************* Up until the first of this year I was still jumping rounds on a regular basis doing testing for Irvin, Simula, Cold Lake Canada and other clients both civilian and military. I assure you I am aware of the different ways to control a round canopy, both modified and un-modified. Maybe with you limited number of jumps you never learned some of the finer points of canopy control? ************************************** Having a greater number of jumps does not automatically make you right. There is only one correct answer. Pulling rear risers on landing in a holding orientation either slows you down or speeds you up. Slowing the descent by moving the apex off center by a foot or two doesn't make a tiny bit of sense to me. Why don't you act like the senior guy here and explain the physics in detail instead of trying to pussyfoot around it by pulling rank? Assuring me that you are right because you know what you're talking about and I don't isn't my kind of adult approach. How about explaining it? In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

******************************** And I do most certainly know the difference between running and holding as I am still jumping rounds twice a month at Z-Hills. ******************************** I'm ready to give up on this. I feel like I'm talking to the old proverbial brick wall if you "most certainly know the difference between running and holding", and you are proud to claim there is something to be gained in pulling rear risers when landing in a holding orientation. I am truly surprised that no one has stepped up to the plate to agree with me on this. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

*********************************** Two things happen when you pull down on the rear risers. First you move the apex vent off center increasing the drag coefficient a little which will slow the decent rate. Second you lower the rear of the canopy skirt in relation to the front skirt and this will reduce forward drive. Sparky *********************************** This is exactly what I meant. Reducing the forward drive is NOT what you want to do when you are HOLDING. It has the effect of increasing your ground speed. I suspected that you guys had forgot all about the "running" and "holding" aspects of the TU and LL modded parachutes since no one has mentioned the difference. In a 15-mile per hour wind, running put you at somewhere near 30 miles per hour, and holding at somewhere near zero. Pulling rear risers on landing would increase your forward (ground) speed to 2 MPH or decrease it to 28 MPH, depending on your orientation. Most half smart jumpers opted for holding with the wind on landing, so why would anyone want to increase his landing speed? Maybe someone who really remembers what jumping those old rounds was all about will help me out here. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

*********************************** I made about 900 jumps on rounds, and another 900 on PC's, which I guess are also rounds. In both cases I used the rear risers. I'm not sure that "flare" is the right word. *********************************** Hey Scratch, I jumped with you at Chicago-Hammond some many years back, I believe in 1965 or so. Do you remember me? You signed off the one jump we made together. I was one of the two guys who made the first ever jump off the El Capitan in Yosemite National Park in July of 1966, 12 years before BASE jumping started as a sport. Nice to see a familiar name still posting, even though I vehemently disagree that hanging on the rear risers when landings with a round, regardless of whether you're running or holding, is ALWAYS a good thing. Blue skies, Mike Pelkey In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

******************************** I started in 1966. My first 1200 or so jumps were on rounds. I used rear riser flaer on almost all of these, on all the canopies you mentioned. Rear riser flare properly executed get you nice landings. did rear riser flare on T 10 when in the military. ******************************** Please tell me, did you execute the "rear riser" landings in a holding orientation or a running one? My experience has been that hanging on the rear risers while holding has the opposite effect of hanging on them when you are running. Am I actually wrong, or have you guys forgot what jumping was like with the modified rounds? *** In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

********************************** Back in 72 or so a friend (who was a little bit newer to the sport than myself) went to check out some gear that an old jumper was selling. This other guy was trying to raise some cash for his new family, and he pulled out this canopy that we both thought was some type of para-commander yet it wasn't a P.C. ********************************** Was it possibly a Wing? The Wing was a hot little canopy compared to the TUs and LLs of the time. It was only around for a few years before the squares came into being. They referred to it as a Rogallo Wing. I believe it was made by Irvin Air Chute. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

I began jumping on New Year's Day, 1964. The ONLY available parachutes were of the modified military variety. LL's and TU's. The big guys jumped the 35' T10's and everyone else jumped the regular 28' rounds. I never saw a Blank Gore modification. Paracommanders hadn't been designed yet. Usually a student used a Double L, due to its slower speed and moved up to the TU after he got to know what he was doing. No one I knew ever used the rear risers on landing. The physics of it don't make any sense at all. If you tilt the canopy up what - 1 degree? - you don't change the airspeed at touchdown an iota. The main thing to concentrate on at touchdown was the actual body position for landing, PLF or standup. Anyone who "used" the rear risers on landing was just trying to climb back up into the canopy to keep from connecting with mother Earth, certainly not to have an effect on the landing speed. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

*********************************** El Capitan. It is a kind of Mecca for BASE jumpers—a spectacularly beautiful granite cliff in an area where everything is larger than life and unimaginable beauty just flows. There is absolutely nothing like it. That beauty is why hundreds, maybe even a few thousand jumps have risked their lives and freedom to experience it. “Three, two, one, See Ya!!!!” *************************************** Stepping off El Cap is like stepping off the edge of the Earth. If anything in my existence has shown me the beauty of being alive, it would be those few precious moments I have had experiencing the freedom of having nothing, yet having everything. Nick and I had stepped off the top of a granite cliff that rises several thousand feet above the valley floor, me in front, and Nick just above me. There are not words to describe the beauty you see everywhere when freefalling from El Cap. There just aren’t. Every place you look, you see the most beautiful sights that nature has to offer. Tracking away from the wall and experiencing the spectacular beauty was all that mattered in our existence. We had nothing and we had everything. Ten seconds. Time to open. Under canopy we were but two tiny specs, tiny and meaningless in front of that wall. ****************************** Perfectly eloquent Walt. I wish I had your gift for words. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

******************************** I am still old, broke, in debt, homeless, unemployed and crippled but my chutes are packed and my reserve is in date so I figure that I am way ahead of the game. Bob Sinclair. ******************************** Where did you find a quote from Bob Sinclair? I knew Bob back in the 60's when he was the "highest paid skydiver in the world". I remember getting his and Jim Arender's (D-17) autograph in my log book one night at the Rumbleseat in Elsinore. Is he still kicking around? In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

Ahah, No wonder I had such a hard time locating it. Apparently I must have heard of Kittenger's jump and Rankin's at the same time and confused the two events. Thanks for clarifying it for me. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny

There was supposed to have been a book written by Captain Kittenger about his 105,000' jump titled: "The Man Who Rode The Thunder". I have not been able to locate a copy of it however. If anyone knows about this book and where to obtain a copy, I'd sure appreciate the info. I believe I recall hearing about it sometime back in the 60's. In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny