hookncrater

I wasn't saying people shouldn't start slow, I was saying people can safely progress briskly when given the proper tools and preparation. Those that choose not to use those tools... well, if you're going to be stupid, you'd better be tough. Charts and a formulaic approach just don't cut it IMO there are just too many variables. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

We're not talking about those kind of lessons though. For instance, when I was a student I was going over my A license card (the 2 page old one) and asked one of the instructors to clarify #7. "Above 1,000 feet, perform front riser dives and turns". I asked how/what to do and what would happen to the canopy when pulling on those particular lines. He said, "don't touch 'em". This is the same person that on every jump will do a 720 hook, landing within 6 inches of the beer line. Granted he is an awesome skydiver/canopy pilot but it's exactly that kind of condescending attitude that pisses me off. I got a second opinion, and a much more educated response from a younger/better instructor. When 80% of the "up jumpers" (I'm referring to the local swoop-gods not the skilled professionals) give advice in my experience they are really just saying, "You'll never progress as fast as me so don't bother trying." The opposite of that is the type that waited 1000 jumps to try an "elliptical" canopy then all-of-a-sudden says, "No one should ever jump canopy X until they had Y amount of jumps." What they are really saying is that you shouldn't try it until you have more jumps than I had at the time since I was too scared/conservative to try it earlier and I am trying cover it up now by being a self-prophesed "safe" skydiver. What I would like to see is: If you want to progress to (elliptical/x-brace/swooping/higher wingload) here are the tools you need. What I detest is: Come back after you have bored 200-more holes in the sky because some chart on the internet says so. We need to collectively stop whining about wingload and focus more on how to not get in the corner to begin with, literally and figuratively. It's not the canopy that kills, it's the pilot. This isn't an argument that people with 100 jumps can somehow be safe on a Katana at 1.7 but rather the more common person at 300 jumps that's thinking about a Crossfire or a Samurai at 1.4 that is current, has a couple of canopy courses under their belt, but somehow always ends up being the "bad guy" in the Safety and Training forum. Really man, if you want to preach, show up to church and people will listen. For someone who used to jump like a 60-something sq ft canopy at a 5000+ft MSL DZ you sure like to whine about other people's choices. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

I don't consider the banning of "hook turns" or a BSR-of-the-month "growth". I call it a cop-out. The law of unintended consequences will destroy this sport if left unchecked. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

Probably the thing I hate the most about motorcycling and skydiving is the hypocrisy of them both. There is so much, "Do as I say and not as I do (did)." going on it's humorous. In both sports the real secret has nothing to do with fractions of a point in wingload or an extra 250cc of engine displacement. It has to do with staying within your limits. If you don't know what your limit is, then set it arbitrarily low 'till you can figure it out. I never ride my bikes, or fly my canopy, at greater than a 7/10ths pace. That way, you always have an out. Some people may say it's luck, but luck doesn't last that long. I was loading my canopy at 1.2 at like 70-80 jumps and started with a 750 for my first bike but you'd never catch me doing a 270 on approach or a crossed-up wheelie exiting the local DQ parking lot. Why? Because I knew A (speed) + B (skill) + C (unknown) = Just like most people in this thread, I have had friends that augured-in on bikes and canopies, but I doubt any of them would want the proposed nanny-state that some desire. For the record, I have never had more than a couple scratches in either pursuit. edit: can't spell ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

1:6: 1 head down reserve deployment witnessed , 6 jumps, 2 dropzones. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

chill out dude, There was no mention of ANY details in this super-hypothetical situation. What if that person was jumping a Triathalon or a Spectre in the 230 range? 1.2 is hardly an "advanced" loading in the real world at that size. In general 1.2 is not particularly dangerous unless you are completely inept. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

IMHO, 1.2 fine... better to fly something they are familiar with. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

Same here. I had to do my "low" H&P post-AFF between jumps 8 and 10, our choice. Ours had to be an unstable exit as well. 5k is "extra" altitude for me on a H&P. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

You really need an M5 container for a PD176R. I have heard of people shoe-horning one into an M4, but considering the added bulk-management complexities given the cutter relocation, I bet it was an ugly-looking packjob. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

My canopy progression has been slower than my sport bike progression by far: 1995 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-7 1996 Ducati 900SS SP 1998 Ducati 748 2003 BMW K1200RS I started with the fastest in class (at the time) 750cc sport bike. However, I knew as soon as I bought it that I was waaaay over my head when it came to riding it hard. So, what did I do? MSF riders skills course, worked with my experienced friends on riding skills, read tons of books by Keith Code and others, and tried not to kill myself. And it worked. Now, over a decade later I have seat time on about 50 different models of motorcycles of every style from Honda to Harley to sidecar bikes and am definately an expert by any definition of the word. What did all that time teach me? Start small(er) but that doesn't mean you have to start on a 250 which is tiny IMO. Same goes for canopies IMHO. You can jump something safely that is a bit aggressive, just don't go and start hooking the sh1t out of it after only a few jumps on it. Get coaching, study, and do tons of H&Ps! Jumping a boat for hundreds jumps is just overkill IMO. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

I had the pleasure of hanging out with him at the Bent Prop and talking about canopies with him in depth for a few hours wearing stupid wigs during the Halloween Boogie a day or so before he went it. He was a great guy, not a skygod bone in him. I remember how enthusiastic he and others were about jumping that tiny Xaos. Haven't seen the vid yet. BSBD bro. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

"Snug" according to the container sizing chart which is translated as, "If you are a decent packer you shouldn't have any trouble". ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

Insanely high riser pressure for one. Next time you are "playing" with your canopy up high try to do a 270° front riser turn. At 1.1 the riser pressure is so high that the canopy pulls out of the dive whether you want it to or not. Trying to extend a dive after a >180° turn with double-front risers is effectively impossible and harness input is extremely mushy and/or ineffective. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

Navigator 0.75 --> 0.95 Safire 2/Lotus/Fusion 1.0 --> 1.2 Nitro/Nitron/Samurai 1.3 --> 1.4 Crossfire 2/Katana 1.5 --> 1.8 (insert favorite x-brace here) >1.8 something like that IMHO Notice the absence of the Sabre2... bleh ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

As soon as it's open to the public, I'm there for a 1 hour block... I don't care if it's a 115° outside. I bet it's plenty comfy in the Bent Prop. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

[notarigger] Okay, let me caveat this, I am not a rigger and I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night! But, I generally leave 18-24 inches of line unstowed between my slinks and the last stow. I have never had a malfunction or a hard opening as a result. In my feeble packing experience, it is better to have too much unstowed line than too little. Too little has the potential to cause line-twists, and has for me twice, as I felt the d-bag spin leaving my back. [/notarigger] ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

Price is too high IMHO. Those are oldish canopies and while they will likely work fine, (as long as the Sabre has been modded to slow the openings so it won't kill you), personally, I'd save up a few extra bucks and at least get a more modern reserve than a Swift Plus like a PD-Reserve or an R-Max. As far as the wingload, it really depends on youy skill and your instructors recommendations. Just because I was loading at 1.1:1 as a newly minted A license holder for instance, doesn't mean it is a good idea for you if you get my drift. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

Careful dude, what was good for you, might not be necessary for everybody. Plus, most people don't have access to a windtunnel. The closest tunnel to me is over a 1000 miles away. I don't think it is fair or even realistic to think tunnel or even tandems should be required for everyone that wants to do an AFF level 1. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

well, fawgdog hasn't logged in for 2 years, i'm not sure he'll get your message ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

Unless you are jumping with the likes of Omar, a coach jump isn't even close to the cost of a tandem. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

NO, it is NOT mandatory. People were doing AFF and passing it with 0 rejumps long before wind-tunnels gained wide-spread popularity. While there is a LOT you can learn from tunnel time, you can pick up bad habits in there too. Pick up a back issue of Skydiving and you can look for an article by a GK on exaggerated mantis position for instance. I think it is a little silly when people spend hundreds upon hundeds of dollars to travel across the country and then think they need to do an hour of tunnel just to pass aff. The money is better spent on a few extra aff or coach jumps and decent gear that won't kill you IMHO. Plus, above all else, who cares if you can do a 10 point 4-way at 50 jumps if you can't land your canopy consistently and safely. Flame suit on! ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

If you do a search the response is basically no and no as I understand it. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

While this is technically correct. The kill line can often shift just enough so the color doesn't show when cocked and packed. I have jumped many times when, during my final gear-check before putting my rig on, that the mark is white instead of blue. I know for a fact it is cocked however since I do it twice during my personal packing procedure. Once, when I first coccoon the canopy and put it on the ground and once again after the canopy is bagged and the lines are stowed. Plus I give the PC a quick flick of the wrist to make sure before I fold it as well. I have always had a kill-line PC in my rig since jump 26 and have never failed to cock it. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

I think that's what it's all about right there! Have fun! ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!

that's a crappy analogy... however, if you don't buy beer, bring a ton of gatorade to the DZ on a hot day and everyone will love you just the same. ________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it!