SkyDekker

In this case it is all about timing.

It can never happen, cause American population has the right to firearms to prevent this from happening. Isn't that the intent of the 2nd Amendmend. I would assume that all the lobby groups who have been working hard to keep the 2nd active and in froce would be the first groups to ask their members to fight against the government, since that is the intent of the 2nd.

I think the care you are showing for this man speaks volumes. Impressive.

Max, it doesn't happen too often but I fully agree with you. Unfortunately, it will greatly impact Canada and Ontario more specifically too.

That's what I thought. So a limit on how you can protect yourself isn't that silly. As long as you are free not to enter those places if you so chose.

Is there an intrinsic and spelled out right in US law to protect yourself with a firearm?

If that is the case, then most if not all current gun laws need to be re-evaluated. I don't see any way for the general populace to control the government at this point. It is a complete and utter mismatch isn't it? What is the process when the intent of a constitional amendmend is no longer valid?

Not blaming the tool at all. The facts show that a person who has been deemed a danger to himself and others is still able to legally obtain guns. In this case it wasn't even due to an oversight from the state. Virginia state law says that only those who are committed in a mental instutute against their will have to be registered in the background system. Apprently Virginia has one of the better systems to do this compared to the other states. I am not blaming the guns at all. I have said many times before that incidents like VT are the price the US as a society pays for the road the embarked on a long time ago. Hence, I don't see it as a problem that needs fixing.

I agree, but then I don't think there is a problem in the US to begin with, so no answer is needed. In this case there was no legal opportunity, cause according to Virginia law you are only ineligible if you have been committed against your will.

Nope

absolutely. Funny enough, just read that only 22 states maintain the psych files. for the other states it is apparently too expensive or too intrusive on peoples privacy rights.

\ Don't forget to add: with legally obtained firearms.

I have been wondering what, at the time, the intent was of the 2nd amendmend? Was it just to arm the people to protect themselves? Was it to be able to overthrow a rogue government? Another reason? A combination?

because they see aother western countries with stricter gun laws and lower murder rates. I am not so sure that is the answer for the US though. I am not so sure an answer is needed, cause it would imply a problem. I don't think there is a problem, you are just seeing the cost of the 2nd amendmend.

no

Nope guns did. but according to you, taking guns away is not the answer, because if somebody really wanted to do harm, he would find a way. Hence, if he knows that many guns could be around him to so try and stop him, he would just find another way to do the harm. With a bomb for instance. In the end, nobody is any safer and the self-defence tool has become useless.

Don't think the gun is going to defend you very much when a bomb goes off

If somebody truly meant harm and was insane enought o go off and kill multiple people, he or she wouldn't let the knowledge of guns stop him or her. Specially on a college or university, just build a bomb and blow the whole place up. Don't have to worry about any guns that way. remember what the pro-gun side claims. If a bad man truly wants to do harm, he'll find a way. So, how does arming more people change that? If taking guns away completely wouldn't change anything, then the opposite wouldn't work either, for the same reason.

Except that by far the majority of the Canadian population lives in the urban areas....hence as a country we aren't that homogenous....

Bwahhaahahahahahhhahhhaha Obviously you never made it to 5th largest city in North America. Below the list of the Mother Tongue of those in Toronto, indeed very homogenous... English 2,684,195 Italian 195,960 Chinese, n.o.s. 165,120 Cantonese 145,490 Portuguese 108,935 Punjabi 95,950 Spanish 83,245 Polish 79,875 Tagalog (Pilipino) 77,220 Tamil 72,715 French 57,485 Urdu 53,895 Greek 50,165 Russian 47,590 Arabic 46,570 Persian (Farsi) 46,175 German 43,665 Vietnamese 36,555 Korean 36,505 Mandarin 35,315 Gujarati 34,650 Ukrainian 26,675 Hungarian 22,020 Hindi 20,780 Croatian 20,265 Romanian 17,955 Serbian 16,450 Bengali 15,685 Somali 13,615 Dutch 13,565 Macedonian 13,485 Armenian 10,060 Twi 8,155 Malayo-Polynesian languages, n.i.e. 7,945 Japanese 7,860 Hebrew 7,390 Turkish 7,335 Yiddish 7,210 Serbo-Croatian 6,460 Czech 5,675 Slovenian 5,275 Sindhi 5,125 Maltese 5,030 Estonian 4,635 Amharic 4,410 Slovak 4,280 Bulgarian 4,275 Latvian (Lettish) 4,125 Lithuanian 4,095 Niger-Congo languages, n.i.e. 4,085 Sinhalese 3,915 Finnish 3,740 Malayalam 3,675 Pashto 3,185 Slavic languages, n.i.e. 2,995 Semitic languages, n.i.e. 2,625 Tigringa 2,615 Malay-Bahasa 2,580 Danish 2,410 Indo-Iranian languages, n.i.e. 2,330 Lao 2,280 Hakka 2,085 Telugu 1,850 Creoles 1,840 Swahili 1,780 Khmer (Cambodian) 1,645 Bantu languages, n.i.e. 1,640 Marathi 1,630 Sino-Tibetan languages, n.i.e. 1,450 African languages, n.i.e. 1,340 Swedish 1,315 Konkani 1,295 Kurdish 1,240 Turkic languages, n.i.e. 835 Kannada 765 Thai 740 Germanic languages, n.i.e. 705 Norwegian 555 Flemish 485 Ojibway 375 Welsh 300 Frisian 285 Gaelic languages 270 Asiatic languages, n.i.e. 270 Byelorussian 180 Romance languages, n.i.e. 145 Cree 110 Icelandic 105 Aboriginal languages, n.i.e. 65 Austro-Asiatic languages, n.i.e. 40 Dravidian languages, n.i.e. 25 Blackfoot 20 Mohawk 20 Micmac 10 Athapaskan languages 10 Iroquoian languages, n.i.e. 10 Inuktitut (Eskimo) 10 Other languages 7,490

Yup, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Are you really trying to say that Hitler could not have done what he did if more of the populace in Europe owned guns?

I was looking at things on a bit wider scale than just the VT campus. Fact is: guns are much more available in the US than any other Western country. Those guns have done a lot of good, but they can do a lot of bad as well. The shooting at VT is the flip side of the coin. As I said in another post, this doesn't mean that banning guns is the answer. It doesn't mean that adding more gun restriction or gun laws is the answer. The US decided a long time ago that guns were important to them as a society. There is a price to pay for that freedom. The shooting at VT is part of that price. The OP of this thread indicates the price society pays for the right to free speech.

We saw the price society has to pay for the right to bear arms a couple of days ago. Now we see the price to pay for the right to free speech. There is a flip side to everything.

Now that the other thread is locked, I am not quite sure where to put this. yesterday's events are truly horrendous and unbelievable for a guy like me. Naturally, the thread quickly degenerated into a barrage of volleys between those in favour of guns and those who want to ban all guns. I don't think there is a direct answer, a so-called solution to this problem. A long time ago the US decided that guns were important to them as a nation and all(most) people were given the right to own them. I agree that in the last decade or so, violence has been glorified, gangsters have been glorified and to a large degree guns and its illegal use have been glorified. Just turn on VH1 or MTV. Combine that with even less parental and/or family oversight and the mix is quite explosive. The US simply has many more guns in circulation than most other western countries. They are easier to come by and acquire than most anywhere else in the western hemisphere. Hence, in my humble opinion, yesterdays events at VT are simply the price the US, as a society, pays for the 2nd amendmend. Yes, the ease of aquiring guns has done a lot of good in the US as well. It has prevented crime, it has stopped criminals, killed criminals, prevented crime, protected homes, families and loved ones. But, there is always another side to the coin, a price to pay if you will. Yesterday the world saw what that price is. In my opinion, there is no solution to this. The US chose a path to walk down, a path with pros and cons. School and campus shootings happen all over the world, but the US certainly seems to have (significantly) more such occurences then most other western countries, just see the list added below. Sept. 13, 2006, Montreal, Quebec -- One gunman opens fire at Dawson College in Montreal, leaving a student dead and 19 more injured. Nov. 8, 2005, Jacksboro, Tenn. -- One 15-year-old shot and killed an assistant principal at Campbell County High School and seriously wounded two other administrators. March 21, 2005, Red Lake, Minn. -- Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead. Sept. 28, 2004, Carmen de Patagones, Argentina -- Three students killed and 6 wounded by a 15-year-old Argentinian student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires. Sept. 24, 2003, Cold Spring, Minn. -- Two students are killed at Rocori High School by John Jason McLaughlin, 15. April 24, 2003, Red Lion, Pa. -- James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself. April 14, 2003, New Orleans, La. -- One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related. April 29, 2002, Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina -- One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself. April 26, 2002, Erfurt, Germany -- 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself. Feb. 19, 2002, Freising, Germany -- Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself. Jan. 15, 2002, New York, N.Y. -- A teenager wounded two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School. Nov. 12, 2001, Caro, Mich. -- Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself. March 30, 2001, Gary, Ind. -- One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School. March 22, 2001, Granite Hills, Calif. -- One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman. March 7, 2001 Williamsport, Pa. -- Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased. March 5, 2001, Santee, Calif. -- Two killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School. Jan. 18, 2001, Jan, Sweden -- One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19. Jan. 17, 2001, Baltimore, Md. -- One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School. Sept. 26, 2000, New Orleans, La. -- Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School. May 26, 2000, Lake Worth, Fla. -- One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes. April 20, 2000, Orleans, Ont. -- Four students and one staff member wounded in knife attack at Cairine Wilson High School in Orleans, Ontario occurs on first anniversary of Columbine massacre. March 10, 2000, Savannah, Ga. -- Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School. March 2000, Branneburg, Germany -- One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since. Feb. 29, 2000, Mount Morris Township, Mich. -- Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun. Dec. 7, 1999, Veghel, Netherlands -- One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student. Dec. 6, 1999, Fort Gibson, Okla. -- Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School. Nov. 19, 1999, Deming, N.M. -- Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School. May 20, 1999, Conyers, Ga. -- Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend. April 28, 1999, Taber, Alberta -- 14-year-old boy shoots two students, one fatally, at W.R. Myers High School in Taber, Alberta. April 20, 1999, Littleton, Colo. -- 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves. Feb. 8, 1999, Verdun, Quebec -- Man fires shot at Woodland Elementary School in Verdun, Quebec. No one injured. June 15, 1998, Richmond, Va. -- One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway. May 21, 1998, Springfield, Ore. -- Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home. May 19, 1998, Fayetteville, Tenn. -- One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis. April 24, 1998, Edinboro, Pa. -- One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged. March 24, 1998, Jonesboro, Ark. -- Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods. Dec. 15, 1997, Stamps, Ark. -- Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot. Dec. 1, 1997, West Paducah, Ky. -- Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School. October 1997, Monreal, Quebec -- 35-year-old man fatally shoots teacher at Montreal language school for immigrants. Oct. 1, 1997, Pearl, Miss. -- Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan. March 1997, Sanaa, Yemen -- Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri. Feb. 19, 1997, Bethel, Alaska -- Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16. March 13, 1996, Dunblane, Scotland -- 16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack. Feb. 2, 1996, Moses Lake, Wash. -- Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class. October 1994, Toronto, Ont. -- Two guidance counsellors at Brockton High School in Toronto shot and wounded by student unhappy with grades. June 1993, Vancouver, B.C. -- Teen wounded outside Gladstone Secondary School in Vancouver in drive-by shooting. February 1990, Burlington, Ont. -- Jilted teenager shoots and wounds estranged girlfriend at General Brock High School in Burlington, Ontario. December 6, 1989, Montreal, Quebec -- Marc Lepine, 25, shoots dead 14 women at University of Montreal's Ecole polytechnique engineering school, then kills himself. October 1978, Winnipeg, MB -- 17-year-old student shoots 16-year-old to death at Sturgeon Creek Regional Secondary School in Winnipeg. May 1975, Brampton, Ont. -- Michael Slobodian, 16, kills teacher and student and wounds 13 others at Centennial Secondary School in Brampton, Ontario before turning gun on himself. Aug. 1, 1966: Former marine Charles Whitman climbs to the 28th-floor observation deck of a clock tower at the University of Texas in Austin and carries an arsenal with him. He began randomly picking off victims, some blocks away. It takes police hours to reach the top of the tower, where they finally kill Whitman. His mother is later also discovered murdered, Whitman's first victim. He complained of severe headaches and a fantasy of killing people that would not go away. The 2nd Amendmend comes with a price.

That's one way of looking at it.