elias123

Just to clarify, was the jumper present when you did that? If not, you could now have packed him a total malfunction, which is quite easy to do with a pullout if you don't know what you're doing. Most of the packers here @ Teuge when packing a pullout leave the main flap open and the pillow hanging out a bit, so the jumper can check the slack and bridle routing himself. Tip: on a pullout rig, if you can lift the rig by the handle after packing, you did it wrong! Other than the last bit of the packing, "stowing away" the pilotchute implies you tucked it away farther than it should be: you're supposed to be able to pull out the pilotchute by hand, you get that right? So the pilotchute needs to be on top of the bag directly under the flaps, with the bridle folded underneath or next to it usually so it runs "free". Yes the jumper was present at the time. He was sitting two meters next to me when I was packing his rig. You say it is quite easy to pack a total on this type of setup when not knowing what gear you are dealing with or are beeing careless, so maybe the system ain't that safe after all? Then again maybe I didn't know what I was doing cause I had never seen this system before. Anyway, I plan on calling him as soon as I get his contact info and ask him if he would check it himself and if I did it wrong I will refund the packjob, no problem. With "stowing away" I mean that I kinda S-folded the bridle (like you would when packing a throw out pilot chute), then neatly placed the S-folded bridle on the right side of the pilot chute wich was, like you say, on top of the D-bag, under the main flap. What the owner of the rig did was just pushing/shoving/trashing pilot chute and bridle on top of each other quite sloppy and shoved it under the bottom flap of the container. There still is something I do not understand though. You say: "you're supposed to be able to pull out the pilotchute by hand". In this system, as far as I can follow, the pilot chute is inside the container. How are you supposed to pull the pilot chute by hand if it is tucked away under the flaps? Am I misunderstanding you? Or do you mean by "you're supposed to be able to pull out the pilotchute by hand" that you pull the cushion, wich in turns pulls the pin, and then throw the pilot chute in the slipstream/wind/wateveryouwannacallit? Thanks for your input and tips Saskia! "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

If you have read my previous posts in this thread, you should already know he has around 1200-1300 jumps. That's an average of roughly one reserve ride every 200 jumps or so. I am not assuming that all of his reserve rides were to blame because of the system he jumps. I know some of his malfunctions had nothing to do at all with his system. But I do think some of them were bacause later that night at the bar he told me that he often had sketchy openings (and yes also reserve rides) when he pulled his handle. This might have something to do with what Rhys mentioned earlier (hanging on to the the pilot chute too long or letting go before the pin is pulled). I didn't say that he had 7 reserve ride only because of this reason/system. You shouldn't assume that I assume that every reserve he had was because of this system. Regardless of how safe this system may be, I, for one, would never jump that kind of setup. That is stating the obvious. For what other reason would I be posting and asking these questions here? IMO we all keep learning all the time. Even long time jumpers. Alles kan beter. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

I think you're talking about a Free Fly handle here. I am in the second part of my post. But I don't understand the difference then between the systems. I do know I think

Wich ones are eliminated and wich ones are added if I may inquire? I don't jump it myself (I use throw outu), but I want to know at least the minimum about the gear that I pack, be it my own or that of someone who asks me to pack for them, so they/I will have a good main opening and will not have to pull their/my reserve (Then again shit can alsways happen of course). That is why I always will be asking questions when I have to pack a rig that I am not entirely sure of how to pack. I always do, and when someone comes to me with a rig I really don't feel comfortable packing, then I am very sorry for that person, but I will not touch that gear. Simple as that. True. Thank you Rhys and Wendy for making these critical points more clear to me!

Thank you, thats the one! After the guy closed the container I opened it up again, because when he put the bridle and pilot chute on top of the D-bag, he just trashed it in there and closed it. I later openend it up again so I could neatly stow away the bridle and pilot chute so the chance of a bridle/pilot chute knot/entanglement would be smaller. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

Yes, I noticed that it did have a straight and not a curved closing pin! This has ocurred to me as well. If I had mentioned these two points you just made, things would have been more clear earlier on in this thread. My apoligies for that. No problem dude! Your input is grealty appreciated!

Now that I have more understanding of the two systems (thanks to Wendy/wmw999 and yourself), it doesn't surprise me that the guy has 7 reserve rides on his pull-out system! "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

Wow. Ok, thank you kindly for explaining this to me Wendy! I was getting really confused. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

I really think it is not a normal pull-out. the cushion looks the same. But the pilot chute + bridle + lines of your main are all together stuffed in ONE compartment. I thought a pull-out system was basically the same as a pouch at the bottom of the container, only not with a ball/hackey, but a small cushion that can stay firmly into place... By the way, pull-out is relatively new right? This gear dates back to the early eighties. Did the contemporary pull-out systems we see at almost every DZ today exist back then? "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

I'm probably not expressing myself clearly, but that is because I have difficulty putting things into words, probably due to my aspergers, and because I have a limited amount of knowledge about gear, especially old gear. I know what a pull-out system is, my teammate uses one (a pouch wich holds the pilot chute outisde and at the bottom of the container, just like a hand deploy, but not with a hackey, but a pull-out (flat cushion that is stowed away under a small pouch that keeps the pull out in place)) I'm not making any sense at all am I? "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

it's called a Pull-Out and it's as safe as safe can be If indeed this is a very safe system then I won't worry about it to much anymore. Still a little bit though, as I am not familliar with the system. It just seems weird to me. I have had many people tell me that you should stow the lines at the bottom of the container carefully and make sure they don't knot up so you don't have a baglock or something, but adding all that bridle and pilot chute to those lines inside the container, and then closing it, just seems weird in my mind. I just keep trying to understand how trashing a bunch of lines, bridle and pilot chute together in one compartment (inside the closed container) could not easlily evolve in a very bad knot/entanglement between your lines/bridle/pilot chute. Glad to learn all this though! And thank you all for your reply's so far! "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

He has a pull out pilot chute, it is a different system to BOC ( which is the pouch you were talking about ). He may be sloppy, many people are; but Pull out is not an unsafe system, it is considered to be a safer option for freefliers by many. This system makes the likelihood of a horseshoe (the ugliest) malfunction very minimal. I don't use pull out but very seriously considered it. Thanks for the reply's so far! So putting the D-bag in the container, then trashing all of the bridle and pilot chute on top of it, then closing the container, is still considered safe then? I will post a pic of his rig when I see him again, but that might take some time since I don't know when I will see him again. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

That was one of the first things I did. Actually, the 'safety guy' really says: "It'll be ok to jump with" to about anything. When I asked other instructors they said: "go ask the guy who jumps it" "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

I would firstly like to apoligose up front for not beeing exactly on topic. I recently started packing at my home DZ. There was a guy there who doesn't jump that often anymore, but has about 1300 jumps total and started in 1979 if I am not mistaken. Just two or three days ago he came to vistit our DZ because he was back in the country for a while. He made a jump and asked me to pack it. I really don't know alot about gear and all (I do always ask how to close the container flaps and how to route the bridle etc.) Anyway, he was jumping a really old Teardrop container (I don't know how old, I've never seen it before) with a Stiletto 135 and with an unknow reserve. When put the bag in the container I noticed that there was no pouch to put the PC in (no leg pouch, no BOC, ...) When I asked him where the hell I should stow his PC he said "You just stuff it al in the container on top of the D-bag after you've put the D-bag in and stuff the pull-out handle in a small cover on the right side of the rig." I was really surprised! When I saw him put the PC in the container on top of the bag pretty sloppy, I was stunned. Isn't it really easy to get a knot in your PC bridle this way? I actually still worry about when he will make his next jump because I don't understand how in the hell that could be considered a safe rig. I'm thinking of not packing his rig anymore because I am in no way familliar with this kind of setup. Was this setup normal in the earlier days of skydiving? "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

If there are experienced wingsuiters around your DZ, I'd suggest Rodeo

WHY? Take a look around in the winsuit forum... I and a few other wingsuit instructors with me are less fond of people doing solos and/or tracking jumps than of people doing lots of group RW jumps. I did around 70-80 tracking dives, most of wich with tracking gear, to train for my first wingsuit jump, to practice delta style wingsuit body positions, leg kicks as wave-offs (as one would/should do when flying an actual wingsuit), wingsuit style dummy pulls and actual pulls etcetera. I honestly think tracking is a good practice if one wants to go on to fly wingsuits in his/her future skydiving career. Of course there are other disciplines that are good for practicing wingsuiting as well, but what I have experienced is that jumpers who have many many RW jumps (and I'm not talking just a few hundred jumps) and only few tracking dives, usually have less qualitative first flights then people who ALSO practice alot of tracking. I think relative work is good practice for wingsuit relative work later on in ones wingsuit career, but for a first flight, I honestly believe tracking is a way better practice since you normally won't be doing wingsuit relative work on your first flight anyway. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

Agreed. I know a jumper with 8000+ jumps who packs in three minutes and has never had a reserve ride. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

My bad! :) Sorry, thought that was your Ghost. But now you mention it, I do remember. You were flying the Ghost at Zwartberg so thats why I mixed those up :) See you at Moorsele boogie in a few weeks! "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

In light of the discussion in the "Cloud Carving" thread, I felt like making a compilation of some cloudsurfs that I have done over the past few weeks that I'd like to share with the rest of you. The dropzones jumped at are Skydive Hoevenen, Skydive Zwartberg/Blackmountain and Skydive Sevilla. Wingsuits used were a Phantom2z and a Stealth1 from Phoenix-Fly. Enjoy, hope you like it.

Well, we CAN jump, it's just not really very comfy. Our C-206 has a door made of fabric and I doest close everywhere so it lets in quite alot of wind, wich makes it a really fucking cold plane ride up :) I will be jumping in the winter, but not as much as I am now in the summer, so that might be a good time to send in my suit for those anckle/leg gripper modifications. I wish I could move to California, trust me! It's one of my all time dreams to work in the skydiving world :) But I don't have the money to do that sadly. And what would I do for a living/work when I get there? I gotta pay the jumps one way or another :) I don't think any lakers girl would be interested in me, altough it wouldn't be same the other way around But that Mary-Jane dispensery sounds quite appealing "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

Ah, I guess I misunderstood then :) But as you say. The suit fits me good. It is a bit tight though, but I kinda like that. That way when I stretch out I can 'put tension on the suit' (can't find another way to put it into words). That way I can get really good performance out of my Phantom2z. Attached is a pic of me in my Phantom2z (green), my teammate Bavo in a Stealth2 (white-red) and one of our good wingsuiting friends Hans in a Ghost2 with Shadow option (black-orange) i.e. no grippers. Kuddos to our teammate Bart for taking this very nice pic! :) Edited to add video of Phantom2z front loop and barrel roll practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wURxnrJIIM "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

Hmm, If you, and other expierienced flyers here, say that adding an extra legwing cell has more dowsides to it then benefits, then I think I will drop the leg extension/widening idea. And I definitely don't want it to affect my backflying because I'm just getting the hang of it. Thank you kindly everybody for the reply's and information! Eating more is not going to happen :) I'l just carry some lead under my suit, like I have succesfully done before a few times. I love my Phantom2z. It is an awesome suit! You can do almost anything with it in the air. Acro, backfly, distance, speed and even time. I'd still like to have those anckle/leg grippers installed though for an increase in docking possibilities. I will be there for sure. If weather cooporates I will be there the next 8 days. Looking forward to making some more wingsuit jumps with you. Oh btw, it would be awesome if you could film me in that Stealth1. I'm gonna try to beat the record of 2:31 seconds from 12000ft to 3000ft that I did last week and would love some outside video! :) I would also like some backfly coaching if that's possible. Me flying on my back the whole jump with you flying above me for video and to point out the direction to fly in, if I'm flying off course/wrong direction. If you have the time off course. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

I was told that it wouldn't be that tough to add an extra cell at the leg wing. But seeing that mutiple voices here say that it won't really increase range in distance/speed and add more drag, then I am inclined not to add that extra cell. I would love to have those extra lag/anckle grippers though!

I, for one, who jumps a Phantom2z, would love to have extra leg/anckle grippers for a larger range of docking possibilities. I'm hoping I can send my Phantom2z to the factory this winter, to add an extra leg cell for more range in forward distance and speed, and would also like to instal those grippers on the legs/anckles, as I have already mentioned. So yeah, I personally would be very interested in seeing the further development of extra options in current wingsuit models/designs.

Very cool and userfriendly! Nice job guys!