SkySlut

Good point...you are going to need a helicopter to haul your ass out if you biff in on some of the remote exit points for BASE. Medical attention or lack thereof, can make the difference between life and death. Another consideration...its not often that you get arrested for swooping. Although, it has been known to happen.

I think they are equally dangerous in the wrong hands...there is very little margin for error in both disciplines.

I used to get them when I was using student gear. Faster openings and a poor fit. Used to get them in the inside of my legs too...the rigs just never were comfortable. Once I got a rig that was made for me...I never had the problem again.

Ray!!! What a good ole fashioned game of catch the hat just doesnt do it for you anymore??? Dont get paint on my canopy!!!

Its a DEAL!!!

Funny little story, well, kinda... This came from a AFF/TM instructor that should have quit the sport about 6 years ago. Anyways...There was a group of brits that came over to the states for about 2 weeks for AFF, consol jumps and a lot of drinking. There was a buddy of theirs that just came to hangout with them on the DZ that was on the borderline for doing a tandem weightwise. They ended up taking him one day...He had a blast!!! He wanted to go again at one point and the instructor told him "no way, well, if you would have tipped me better the first time maybe I would be more inclined to take you again. You brits, need to learn the value of tipping to get good service." I was horrified. One, I believe that he should find a new occupation anyways, but...if he is going to stay in this job, then maybe he should provide a better service in the first place...then maybe he would get more tips (if that is what he is in this job for). Anyways, Tipping an AFF instructor does not happen often, but if there is one specific one that went out of his/her way and maybe helped you get through the program while other instructors failed you in one way or another then maybe a 6 pack of their favorite beer would be appreciated. Its just as good as money, but has a better flavor and personality to it!!!

yep, either one is a good target although one area can be a bit more congested than the other. No matter what you choose, you should have a flight plan and execute that plan. If one area is too congested and you dont feel comfortable, then go to plan "B". Pick up that flight plan from plan A (like its on a plate of glass) and move it over to be in accordance with plan b, or c, or d, etc. I am sure that Scott had told you about the plate of glass theory. Even an off field landing is an accuracy jump...some more than others

Every jump is an accuracy jump!!! At least it should be...

Sorry, mis-information from the locals...

Yeah, I think that I can manage to do that for you...give me some time. PM me if I forget. I will try to remember to bring the camera tomorrow. I think that I am going to have to write a reminder on my forehead though.

Yeah, I heard that the locals did pretty well...clint & carp...there were only 25 in the open division though. Good job guys!!!

18 inches and I have velcro and tuck tabs...very sucure...that thing isnt ever coming out on an opening.

I think that this thread has really been getting into semantics, but the thing is that I think that everybody agrees that things need to change because the current system is not making anyone happy. No biggie. Things will change in time. Things are pretty good down here in FL. Its not too hot, but I still have managed to drink quite a few cold beverages to keep cool. How are things on your end???

I have seen them testjumping the "stiletto 2" or whatever they are going to call it. But I really hope that they are going to release the new canopy that is going to surpass the velocity that they have also been jumping.

I agree...I dont particularly agree that you need 200 jumps just to be considered to FF, but I am just stating some FF coaches attitudes. I am not a FF coach by any stretch of the imagination. I just really enjoy the devils advocate thing. It may not be my position really but it makes for some great discussion and people are opening up their minds to things that they may have not thought about before. I have gotten several PMs that have been great discussions as well. One of the things that people from the opposing sides seem to notice is that we actually have the same viewpoint in a roundabout way. Its good to bat around ideas on concepts, even though they may never happen or even be possible, but its good to sort out the logic of some of these things. Check out how many views there are on this thread. I havent seen a thread with so many views since the tit-ee bar thread!!!

Well, we wouldnt put a student under a velocity would we? Gotta learn to crawl, before we walk, then run in this sport. I do realize that some are naturals and progress faster than others and they shouldnt be held up in their progression either...its a fine line.

I would think that you would have to agree that you would have to start out on a cessna before you would have to progress to a F-14, yeah???

Trust me...any beaurocratic body is slow...but action from the people, i.e. proactive DZs can make it happen and voices from the people. Discussion is a good thing. The USPA board members are still skydivers (slackers with a bit of ambition, no offense to any board members), they dont have a majical gift to put perfect rules into place...the majority of the ideas come from discussions like this and ideas from voters, etc. If we dont like it, change it.

I think that you are nitpicking now...you know what I am getting at...knowledge or relative wind and air deflection...it really is the same thing, whether you are on your belly or sitflying, whatever. Its just different muscle groups for the most part. But there is something to be said for understanding those basic principals.

Here is my theory (not exclusive to me, in fact many freefly coaches & the windtunnel will not instruct you until you show competence on your belly): RW is the basics. The physics of flying are essentially the same for freelying...the only major difference is that the speeds and therefore the dangers inherent in flying at those speeds are greater. As far as CRW...I know that techinically you dont need too much experience...but it cant hurt. I do honestly believe that a good basis in RW is beneficial for FF training...if not only for safety reasons. Some FF coaches in Florida wont coach you unless you have 200 jumps...they take it pretty seriously.

Do you ever plan on doing beach jumps or any jumps that may potentially involve getting your rig wet a lot??? If so I would go with the stainless, it prevents rust which can wear through the webbing. Thats all bad.

Born and raised in New Hampshire...great place. Mountains, ocean, forrests, close to big cities, Boston & Portland...great place..."now leave me alone"

OK...enough complaining about this. Lets switch to a more proactive gear. What do we need to change in the "system"? My ideas: 1) The coach rating-basic coach rating for those who dont really want to teach rw, but need it to get their tandem rating, etc. Have an advanced coaching rating that is geared towards people interested in actual rw coaching. 2) Maybe make some changes in the ISP in regards to really training a student to fly rather than just gives them survival skills. I know, money, money, money...we can discuss that later. 3) Make some changes in the SIM so it is more clear on who can jump with who...tough one, but I am sure that we can make this happen. Ideas???? EDIT:Yes, I know that I am "borrowing" from CSPA and BPA.

Velocity 96 in a Javeling TJN, made for a 135. Looked funny but opened fine. Thats the biggest gap that I have had.

Thank you Quade... I think that this discussion has gotten a bit off topic but this has been a great one to get into. Here is the thing. One, I dont agree with the USPA on how the coach's course is run. But the fact is:the rules of the USPA are rules...until that changes...tough doodies. The USPA is trying to put order to chaos. Controlling skydivers is like trying to heard cats. I think that the ratings system is sound but needs some tweaking (coach course and course director appointments being the two major problems). I have no problems with people jumping with newbies...I encourage it and do it myself. Its a great thing!!! My point is...if you are going to be doing this fulltime or get paid for coaching...you owe yourself and your student the respect to take the course. What is the big deal??? I was and am always excited to have the chance to learn something new. A non rated coach/instructor cant sign off on the A license card. I think that US jumpers have a long way to go to transition from an old school mentality and work towards educating themselves about adult learning and teaching techniques. Major problem with skydiving in the US: I am under the assumption that we are all in the sport to have fun and meet and interact with friends. A student gets into the sport and finishes AFF, gets their A license and is thrust out into the skydiving world. There are 3 options. 1, they get frustrated by not having the skills to interact in the air with their friends and quit the sport...which we dont need. 2, they immediately start freeflying without proper training, equipment or skills and hurt themselves, others or end up in the incident reports or 3, they get lucky and attend a forward thinking dz and get a mentor program, free coaching, etc. Those are few and far in between. Either way...2 out of the 3 situations are bad for the students and sport all around. I believe that USPA is trying to formalize what is going on at the progressive dzs. A little late, yes, but in a good direction...yes. Point being, the student/coach program needs to have changes...progressive dzs have already made these changes. The rest of the country is left behind in the dust with dated teaching methods and potentially dangerous graduates. I cant believe I am saying this but, we actually have to work within the USPA to make these changes. It just sounds strange having a bunch of free thinkers (skydivers) having rules and regulations. Discussions like this are extremely valuable. The rules and regulations are the rules and regulations...if we dont govern ourselves than someone else will. I dont want that...do you??? I guess that its the lesser of two evils...so lets continue this discussion. I wish that we were all sitting aroung the fire to get this really hammered out...this internet thing is great in some ways, but sucks in others.