EvilLurker

I've got a lot more jumps than you, and I'd probably get hurt under a Nitron, too. I'm almost positive someone with his number of jumps would get injured to some degree real fast, and probably seriously.

NW: What did he thing of the possibility it was tight leg straps restricitng your blood flow combined with the G's from the spirals and slight hypoxia? (Just for my own curiosity.) I hope you're able to get back in the air soon.

If you're going to land on a road, be aware that the majority of power/telephone lines and fences are running down a road. Look for poles and fence posts, and if you see them, abort the attempt and land parallel, even if it's crosswind or downwind. It's awful hard to see the wires or cables, but you can see the posts from quite a distance. I always considered roads to be pretty dangerous due to this factor, even though they look good from higher up. I'd shoot for the middle of the biggest field I was SURE I could reach.

I did, but I didn't like the amount of "grip" they had. I even had to change out the small bands after a couple of jumps to get a decent stow. I didn't see the advantage to Tube stows in that case. Maybe once the lines were "fuzzed up" a little it would have improved, but brand-new Spectra lines are crazy slippery. Perhaps using the wrong brand of Tube Stows? Very possible.

Call the folks at the DZ and ask them if they'll take a look for your canopy for the next week or so. It might be a little easier to spot from the air. It's not going to be worth much after a week, even if you do find it. Good job on the EPs, but it sucks you lost your main. Try and remember if your main was dropping faster than your freebag, since you got to watch them for a while, maybe it will give you a better idea where to look. If you know anybody up there with an ultralight or a powered parachute, I bet they could find it for you in an hour or less. Just a thought. Good luck and thanks for the story.

I used to use tube stows on the 2 grommets that lock the bag, and rubber bands on the others (I bet that's not recommended, but it worked for me). I was jumping a 9-cell with dacron lines, though, and it would break a lot of rubber bands otherwise 9pretty much every 2 jumps). Once I went to a 7 cell with micro-line, I didn't like them, too easy to strip a stow out. They seemed to work a lot better with Dacron, but who's jumping that now? That was my (very) limited observation. Maybe ask a long-time packer what they think, they see a lot of different configurations.

Did you demo a Silhouette 150, or are you not satisfied with the performance/openings of the current one? I'll be interested to see what you end up deciding on. I went from a Triathlon to my Silhouette and never regretted it a moment. Never jumped an airlocked canopy, but I like the concept. I'd think "feeling" the turbulance would beat watching your canopy "breathe", once I was over the initial freaking out phase. Maybe.

Well, no, there were actually 180 people's lives saved, out of that, 30 of them had incidents where they were incapable of getting a parachute over their heads due to factors beyond their control (which I concluded "could have been any one of us, no matter the experience level/ability to respond") The other 150 were a mix of loss of altitude awareness (probably 75+% of them were going to die, some may have gotten a reserve pull without the CYPRES), and the trusting ones that gave up and waited for a CYPRES fire (device dependance). Maybe some of them would have fought harder to get something over their heads if they didn't have an AAD. Hard to say. But yes, about 30 people that were saved by a CYPRES that would have deployed safely, minus their injury, over a 14 year span. I'd have to agree with that statement. In an earlier time, these people would have been statistics in the low pull/no pull catagory. I believe it could be. I also believe that there should be some serious consequences for allowing your CYPRES to deploy a reserve if you are not injured/unconscious, with the possibility of being permanently grounded. I'd say with that kind of response, most of them would be dead or very seriously injured. No, I'm an electronics technician. I agree with a lot of your points, but that doesn't make us right, necessarily. From the CYPRES save list, and running a quick estimate vs. the number of jumps, the chances of an experienced skydiver being saved by a CYPRES looks very low. If you maintain altitude awareness, it is REALLY low. I have one because I suck at RW and could well be the low guy on a funnel, so it's for peace of mind. Hey, are you in Melbourne? My wife's from there.

I read about 30 saves that were due to unconscious/injured/hard pulls that I could see happening to myself, all of them experienced skydivers with Expert Cypres. Yes, there's quite a string of them. They're still alive, but I doubt if many of them are still skydiving. Well, it's hard to judge how someone will react to an emergency situation, it's even hard to judge how you would personally react. Unless you're going to come up with some kind of test to judge that, what's the solution? Limit first jump students to SWAT team members, firefighters and Navy SEALS? Well, it's a business (and not a very profitable one), so I guess we can expect that. You can really only do so much training on the ground, but I suspect you're right, from watching quite a few FJC's, that the phrase "maybe you should take up bowling" might be smart in a lot of cases prior to putting some students in an airplane. I don't remember seeing any people talked out of jumping due to their ground performance. I did IAD with an Army instructor and civilian JMs, but they were all old-school and didn't skimp on the feedback. A lot of people don't take well to that attitude, but I'm ex-military, too, so I prefer it. I don't think I'd agree with a blanket statement like that, I've seen quite a few EXCELLENT civilian instructors around. It depends on the person and the environment they're working in, I'd say. This sport really is dangerous --its a pity some parts of it appear to be on the edge of negligence as well. I see where you're going: minus AADs a lot of these new people would not get put into an aircraft and out the door, unless the sport was willing to accept another 90 or 100 student deaths over the last 15 years, and a substantially increased number of tandem fatalities. That's a tough one to answer. Interesting question, though.

A lot of the students would most likely have not been jumping if an AAD hadn't been invented. I agree. I can't remember. I doubt it, as he would have had to quit jumping if his fired. He never stated you HAD to use an AAD at his DZ, just that you had better not have it fire. I agree. He was a military rigger, been running a DZ for 20+ years without a fatality, so he was doing something right. His point was, if you're boneheade enough to forget to pull, you just died. He didn't want dead people stinking up his operation. I would imagine if a jumper was knocked out in freefall and their AAD saved them, he would have made an exception. Maybe. That's hard to argue with, and I have a feeling you're right. If I know that, in the event I hit the door or get kicked, etc. I'm going to burn in and die, I'm going to be a lot more cautious about what I attempt. That's probably true of most skydivers, whether they admit it or not. If you're talking about being complacent about altitude awareness because I have a CYPRES in case I go low, hell no, not guilty. I'm also not going to quit on my EPs and wait for a CYPRES fire, I'm going to be pulling handles and fighting for my life until impact. If the CYPRES fires and saves me, I'm one lucky dog. Compulsory AADs? I'm against it, but if a DZO makes that rule, I'm at their mercy.

No, I think you sold it to me. Just kidding, but that's a weird coincidence. Mine was never dropped, that I know of. Maybe I hit it on the door. No telling. Now imagine it sticking at 3500 for a low-timer and you have a scary scenario.

Maybe I'll take the time to check your profile next time, eh? Sorry about that.

Well, if you get knocked unconscious/rendered unable to pull during a skydive (I'm ignoring the low cutaway scenarios here), the chances of an AAD saving your life are pretty good (especially a CYPRES). Without one, you're dead. The "overconfidence" factor making people freeze up and wait for the AAD to save their lives exists, I've read incident reports where the jumper stated that "I waited for my AAD to fire". In these cases, it did fire. I guess you have a point, regarding a limited number of jumpers. I don't see how you're going to foster "less reliance on AAD's", though. At my DZ, the DZO said that anyone who had a CYPRES fire wouldn't be jumping at his DZ again, maybe that could be turned into a USPA policy. I'd have to say that I like my AAD just for the fact that if I take a knee in the head or get a broken arm, etc. I have a good chance of living. It's no substitute for altitude awareness, and if I had a CYPRES fire, it would be my last jump. Maybe I'm not typical? Hey, you should read through this list and note the number of student/tandem saves. Most all of them would be dead without a CYPRES: http://www.cypres-usa.com/saves05b.pdf 293 saves, maybe some of them would have gotten a reserve out in time, but many wouldn't have from reading the reports. What do you say to that?

I have a PD Silhouette I enjoy flying, you might want to try a demo, unless the whole idea of a combination ZP/F-111 turns you off. It's sure easy to pack and I liked the light toggle pressure. I'm not sure how it compares to a Pilot or Spectre, but it was a lot flatter flying canopy than the Triathlon and I get a lot better landings out of it.

It may be easier for someone who's from a Cessna DZ background and gone through the SL/IAD training to pick up than from a turbine DZ/AFF type background. I had a lot of time droning around at 3500 feet putting out students on multiple runs and throwing wind drift indicators. I have a very good eye for 3500 feet just from seeing what the buildings/cars look like and the ground detail that's visible. 3500 is right where I start my wave-off after a freefall. I can do it without an altimeter pretty accurately, I think, so I'm willing to loan my alti to someone else on the plane in a pinch. If I get into trouble under canopy without an alti, I'm going to have to make an educated guess where my hard deck is and that could get me killed. I'll grant you that point, it's an increased risk. If I'm aware of it, and go straight to my EPs instead of burning altitude trying to do in-flight rigging, I can reduce that risk. If you want to "train" your eyes for better altitude awareness, you need to spend some time at a Cessna DZ and/or start watching your altitude vs. the ground while under canopy, there's really no other way. I will say I can't tell 10,000 ft. from 8,000, but I really don't care. I can sure visually tell 5000 from 3500, though, and I picked that up by jump #50. Unlike some people on here, I'm watching my altimeter at wave-off altitude (and I make sure it's indexing down smoothly, because I've seen them stick). If you don't feel comfortable visually determining when you're getting low, I think that's more risky than not having an altimeter at all, but that's just my personal opinion. I don't trust that "internal timer" much, personally, but it may work well for some people. I used it on 10 and 15 second delays, but over that I had to transition to an altimeter to have ANY idea of where I was. Maybe that's just me.

Heh, I like my Tony suit, too. I never had to ask for any service, so no comment on that, but if you think the owner is arrogant, you need to meet the "dealer" I bought mine from.

I'd say the biggest difference you'll see is if you have an "oversize" rig. I had a pretty big Talon container for my first gear, and it interfered a bit with my flying. That said, time in the tunnel really helped me with my freefall skills and what I learned there translated well into my skydiving progression. I did notice the bigger rig had caused me to "potatochip" a bit once I bought a custom (smaller) container. You'll learn how to cure that backsliding in the tunnel real quick, I'd say. I was doing the same thing at first. Good luck and have fun.

I'd say you're right, but the current PLF technique is easy to teach and keeps the majority of people from hitting their heads into the ground. What you're describing is more difficult to accomplish without a lot of practice and if you screw it up, would most likely result in a more serious injury than a botched PLF. I agree with what you're saying, though, it's a carry-over from rounds and is best suited for vertical/near vertical appraoches, not a 30 mph downwind landing. If you add a whole day (or 2) of PLF training to a FJC, it's going to drive a lot of potential students away, I'd say. I got about 3 minutes of PLF training off a picnic table in FJC and never used it again. I'd say that's pretty typical for our DZ. A trained wrestler or martial artist could most likely survive a decent impact with the ground and walk away smiling, as long as their vertical descent rate wasn't too high, I've seen it a couple of times. I'd say teaching a good PLF is low priority at the DZs I've jumped at. I agree 100% with what you say, though.

About an hour in the wind tunnel, in my experience, and it doesn't cost as much as repeating AFF jumps. I came out of the tunnel with MUCH better control.

Make sure you tell the doctor you were at 14,000 feet for quite a while, (that's a HIGH hop'n'pop) and that you did some spirals (positive G's) while in the tight harness, so he gets a good idea of the load you were putting on your circulatory system. I can see how it might have happened, you were really "driving" the blood down into your legs and were most likely a little low on oxygen. I think it could happen to anyone, if they get into the right combination of factors. It was pretty cold at 14,000 feet, correct? That causes the body to increase blood flow to the surface capillaries, which probably didn't help, either. Explain all that to your doctor and see what he thinks, Ever seen jumpers at 14k with purple lips and fingertips? I have, and they're prime candidates for something like you're describing. Best of luck to you, I hope it's nothing more serious than a tight harness and slight hypoxia. That's worth a try, it really helps me out on long canopy rides. I have an Infinity with padded leg straps, though, if that makes any difference. They "pop" right back up my legs when I straighten up, so the first time you try this, make sure you go through the sequence a couple of times prior to your landing set-up, just in case and to get a "feel" for what it's like. I'm not sure how great an idea it is if you start feeling dizzy to be leaning back in your harness like that, you'll have to try it and decide.

Wow, I've never heard of that. Glad you came out uninjured. When you're under canopy, do you stay perfectly erect in the harness? If so, try this: let your leg straps ride up the back of your thighs a little and lean back (raise your legs). It feels kinda weird the first few times you try it, but it's a lot more comfortable on long canopy rides (and it will help you get better wind penetration and glide ratio as a side benefit). At about 500 feet, straighten up and the straps will go right back where you want them. I wear my leg straps real tight, too, and this is my preferred method of flying. Maybe you already know this, if so, forgive me.

I'd have to say that personally, if I could catch up with the unconscious person (doubtful, I'm not that great a high-speed diver), I'd grab anything I could get ahold of and dump their main OR reserve as quickly as possible. Waiting to get to a lower altitude is crazy, how are you going to feel if you lose your grip and they crater in after you had a chance to save them? You'd have to live with that the rest of your life. I would imagine an unconscious jumper if upside down in a U and spinning like a top, it wouldn't be an easy task to get ahold of them, I would think. Probably have to count of their AAD in 90% of the cases.

I don't have anything to add to what happened on you AFF jump, but I had a bad spinning problem while I was going for my A license, including a couple of times I ended up on my back trying to recover (which I did prior to pull time). If it's bothering you, or you want to cure it before you have to repeat jumps, go put some time in at a tunnel. It cured my problems completely and I had a lot more peace of mind after that. Good luck and watch your altitude.

Exactly. Somehow, I just don't see myself cratering because I can't recognize pull altitude, if anything, I probably tend to pull a little higher when not wearing an alti. It was quite a few jumps (100+, I didn't log it) before I felt I had a good enough "eye" to not need one, but if you're from a Cessna DZ, have thrown wind-drift indicators, been on a lot of IAD/SL student loads and been involved in spotting, you end up with a pretty good idea of what 2500 and 3500 feet look like, and that's really the only thing that counts. I wear an alti. because when I tell someone I'll be throwing a PC at 3 grand, I want to be precise, not becaue I'll crater without a device to tell me I'm getting low. My eyes do that just fine. Until you're SURE you know what pull altitude looks like, wear and use an altimeter, but use it to train your eyes/brain, too, just in case it malfunctions on you. Oh, and I have a Cypres, not that that's any guarantee I won't impact, but the "no alti" jumps weren't because I'm a cheap SOB. Anybody that chooses not to jump because they don't have a functioning altimeter, I can respect that. I've never jumped without a helmet, for example.

Been there, done that. The second time I looked at it and it said 6 grand, I figured out something was not quite right. Opening shock fixed it and I was at 2800 feet. It can happen.