EvilLurker

So, if I do a cross-country on my PD-210 with that non-collapsible flapper I'll be at risk of my lines melting right in two? Thanks for the warning.

If you're going to get someone to jump it, have them take a look at whether or not the steering lines are deflecting the tail in full flight, because that would explain a lot right there, and it's easy to fix. I had to hold the toggles to my knees for about 5 plus seconds to stall my 210 until it bow-tied, just for an example. If your canopy is stalling much short of that, there is something wrong. Be careful.

I alwsys waited until I had cleared my airspace/unstowed my toggles and set a course for the landing area before I collapsed my slider (or until that annoying flap*flap*flap got on my nerves) and I never noticed any difference between before and after. I realize that there is (supposedly) a difference in drag, but I'm not so sure that the "flat" slider flopping in the breeze is any lower than the "fat" collapsed slider plowing through the air, in fact there could well be more drag with it collapsed. Don't challenge me to prove it, though, it's just a half-baked theory.

How so? Different planform, nose design, line trim, all of the above? Different brake settings?

No, out the door. It was above freezing on the ground (barely). As I said, my hands got cold, the rest was fine. I did see some fogging problems, though, so I was making the point you can get fogging even when it's "rather comfy".

I have a PD-210 and our WL is similar (I'm about 180 out the door). I could hold the toggles all the way down for about 5+ seconds before it stalled and it planes out and lands just fine (it doesn't even have a collapsible PC, which would be a big improvement I think). You've got something wrong there, it's either worn out or has a serious line trim problem, in my opinion. I landed mine a couple of times on a high-wind day without even flaring it and stood it up. I always flared it smoothly (i.e not a 2-stage flare) and had good luck, but mine is pretty new (around 200 jumps). If I were you, I'd ask somebody with experience on F-111 canopies to jump it for you and get some quality feedback, then go from there. I never jumped a ragged-out PD 9 cell, so I can't speculate on what they exhibit, but I bet there are plenty of people here that can. Good luck and be careful, that sounds like a pretty dangerous situation. Mine is pretty "bumpy" in bad turbulance, but at 2-3 mph? Scary.

I made a few cold weather camera jumps (12 F out the door, that's about -10C). Goggles fogged a bit in freefall, camera had a couple of "haze" patterns that formed and went away (but it was noticable in the film) the camera battery was fine and I had kept it on my helmet from the ground up. The worst thing was my hands, they were pretty much numb and keeping them in the toggles on the way down got painful. Good, thin gloves with a windproof barrier (Gore-Tex or similar) would be a smart choice. Those kinds of temperatures you have a chance of freezing your ears/nose/face/fingers, which would be painful and dangerous. I really didn't notice my body being too cold, but I'm also not sure what type of temperature you're looking at jumping into, it might become a factor.

Yes, I've heard it stated that the original Sabre and a PD 9 cell were identical. Could someone who's compared the 2 (rigger/owner) confirm or deny that (because I don't know, it's what I've heard several times). I have a PD 9 cell, and it's NEVER opened hard. It's not ragged out, either, it's got around 100-150 jumps total, so thay had a good F-111 design.

Maybe you should think about that comment a little.

Sparky: Sounds like it might be a decent cheap accuracy/cross-country canopy for a bigger person. Is there anything dangerous about them, or are you just saying it's a big boat that you won't like as a sport rig? Thanks.

I see you're a rigger and you jump a PD reserve like me. Funny that. I paid a lot more for it than a Tempo (which was available at the time), so accusing me of "not doing my own thinking" is a bit harsh (maybe you didn't intend it that way, in which case my apologies). I was making the point; if your rigger's opinion is that something is sub-standard, whether or not you agree with him/her, going out and buying that component and expecting them to maintain it is a bit of an insult. Just my opinion, but you do see my point, right? I guess the other option is to leave your rigger out of the loop totally, but I figured they might know a thing or two about gear and used that (free) information in making my decision (and by the way, he didn't tell me "buy a PD", I decided that myself and he didn't discourage me). Just to set the record straight.

I never lost altitude awareness, but let me mention something I did do that got my attention. We jump near a pretty large butte out here, probably 800 feet or more high, and depending on the wind you might get a spot over the top of it. I finally did, around jump 15 or so. Just before pull time (3500 feet), I happened to take a look down and HOLY CRAP! I can see the lawn furniture in people's back yards pretty clearly. See what I'm getting at here? If you're training in an area with hills, take a minute and think about what may happen if you get a spot over a new area and look down once in a while. That was the worst scare I ever got skydiving, and a Cypres would fire just as you impacted, so it's a real danger. If I had lost altitude awareness on top of this, I would have had a bad day. Nobody had ever mentioned this possibility to me during training or prior to the jump, and I hadn't really realized just how big that friggin hill was until I was looking down into it at about 2700 feet at terminal. That's a bad time to make the connection, and if you panic, thrash and go unstable, it's going to get dicey. Just something to think about, "altitude awareness" isn't all about your altimeter reading.

No, there's no problem associated with it, it's just a lot quieter. I have a rig with a collapsible and one with a non-collapsible and they both act exactly the same. I guess the "grommet burr" thing has merit, but you probably should worry more about the damage that's doing to the top of your lines during deployment a lot more than while it's flapping, since it's got a LOT more pressure/friction during that time.

Well, if your own rigger told you a certain reserve (it doesn't really matter which one) was "crap", would you run out and buy one? I wouldn't. Right or wrong, if I trusted the rigger, and intended to keep using his services, I wouldn't buy something that in his opinion was "crap", whether I personally agreed with him or not. Would you? Same goes with a main, a container, a pilot chute or an AAD.

Since he weighs like 260 lb., I really don't think he's actually looking for a 106. If so, the result might be "the 106 opened quicker, then split down the middle and streamered", which isn't actually going to help us all that much.

I take it we're not counting brain injuries here, right? Most people consider us all insane, retarded, or both.

Keep your eye on the jump plane and you'll do fine. Once I learned that, I was much more stable on exit.

Isn't it amazing how hard those Triathlons can open without damaging themselves? Hard enough to make me sell mine. You're going to flinch every time you throw your pilot chute, and it takes a lot of fun out of jumping. I hope Aerodyne has a solution, but I really have my doubts. You never had a hard opening before switching containers? Very weird.

I'll tell you what I think (which ain't worth much, but it's free) Yes, try packing your canopy a little wider so you get more of it into the corners and it's flatter along the center Once you have it bagged, get your knees down on the center and stretch the closing flap up over the canopy before you make the first 2 stows Those closing stows are about the right length, I think. Keep tension on the lines as you "walk" the D bag back to the container, that helps a lot in not having uneven line tension. You're probably aware of all this, but if any of it helps, you owe me a dollar.

There could be a lot of other variables, though. How fast was your fall rate when you initiated reserve deployment, what was the difference in pilot chutes, etc. I'm sure there are differences in reserve deployment speed/altitude loss associated with a lot of factors, but I was trying to keep it limited to just the difference in 2 reserve sizes under identical circumstances. It's a very interesting question. Yes, PD would be an interesting party to hear from, I agree. I'm sure a sub-terminal deployment takes a longer time to deploy/inflate, as I've done quite a few IAD jumps. The altitude loss is very minimal, though, as I watched the jump plane. I'd say less than 300 feet altitude loss on a main deployment from an IAD jump with a PD-220 (not a canopy that's known for quick inflation). I think the reason none of the manufacturers are quick to chime in is that it may give the idea that you're safer jumping a 106 reserve than a 218, and I'm positive that's not the case, unless you weigh around 100 pounds out the door. Know what I mean?

That's where we disagree, as I don't believe the 106 will be out of the bag "long before" the 218, and the difference in drag while they are both reefed by the slider (deceleration before inflation stage) will be very significant. I'd sure like to see some actual data, though, I might end up eating crow.

"Canopies need time to decelerate the load (i.e. jumper). This means that a lighter jumper will reach full deceleration (and full canopy controllability) sooner. " I agree with this. The larger canopy will expose more surface area, resulting in more drag and a quicker deceleration, and will decelerate to the point that the slider comes down faster (and with less altitude loss) than a smaller canopy of the same design under the same weight. A BASE rig, with no slider or a mesh slider, may or may not exhibit the same characteristics. I'll let the BASE guys answer that, they will have studied it a LOT, I'm sure. The shorter suspension lines between a 106 and a 200+ would amount to what, about 6 feet? Terminal is 180 ft/sec. or 1/30 sec. line-stretch difference. I think the deceleration from a much larger area would quickly overcome that advantage. Something not mentioned was whether the pilot chutes were equally sized, or were the recommended size for each canopy, because that would also have an effect.

I understood exactly what he meant. If you don't, I doubt you ever will, no matter how it's explained.

No, it doesn't. I'd estimate the altitude accuracy has about 10X the error of the Lat/Lon. (if not more). It's easy to verify, just turn the system on, allow it to acquire a lock, and watch the altitude for a few minutes. I've always witnessed a big drift. It's good to know the altitude you're actually at when doing the test. I've seen over 400ft. of error with SA off.

Zoter: I should have specified, it was loaded at .8:1. It normally took a lot of work to get it moving fast, and I'd never looked out over the top of it before.