TALONSKY

Hate to disagree, but CRW just absolutely blows whuffos away. Most people have no concept of what can be done with a parachute. Will agree that swooping is crowd friendly as well. My statement is based off of reading Parachutist and what they stated I believe last world games and other articles about swooping. Which stated that the most viable spectators sport seems to be swooping (or something very similar) Kirk Kirk

Although it is being considered, skydiving is not a popular sport for the masses. We have a very limited market and lets face it, unless you are into skydiving most spectators would find it boring to watch 4 way or CRW. The only one that is crowd friendly is swooping. Kirk

For designing your infinity try https://www.square1.com/CustContainer/infinity/infinity.html Kirk

Yes, it makes sense. Your right there is no standard way of measuring canopies. I believe PD works off of the projected SQ foot. Kirk

In fact please go and compare your Safire 169 to a Sabre 170 or a Sabre 150 and post your findings. I have been in these forums trying to let people know about this issue and even with a statement from the manufacturer people still do not believe it. So Please compare (measure or lay on top of each other) and post your results. Kirk

Also as far as performance goes it just depends on the planform. I jump a VX 109 and demo'd a Velocity 120, between those two the Velocity out performed and was faster than my VX. Kirk

When I had my Safire 169, I was told by Icarus about their sizing. I talked to people at my DZ everyone told me they did not buy it was different than stated. I had my own idea on it and "Yes it was a Sabre 150 I compared mine to on the ground". As I stated before the proof is in the putting so go and compare for yourself. The manufacturer has already stated it is smaller than stated and I proved for myself it is. Kirk Also I just remembered that I compared my Safire 169 to a PISA Hornet 170. I did the similar tape measurements and came up that my Safire was 15 Square Feet smaller.

Well I personally would figure it out to what a PD product would be so the 170SF. Kirk Please do not just take the word of this thread go and find someone with a similar sized canopy if you have a Safire 190 compare it to a Sabre 170 and see what you find out.

I would suggest to anyone that owns an original Safire or Omega and questions the validity of the size discrepancy that you find someone with a similar sized PD product and compares them(actually lay them over the top of each other or take a tape measure to each). It definitely put the subject to rest for me. Kirk

OK, by my post I really do not want to point a finger at any company just relaying information. Now as for a Safire 1 169 size. I use to own one. About two years ago I compared my Safire 169 against a Sabre 150(did a hop-n-pop in the rain). To measure the canopy here is what I did (I know this may not be extremely accurate but I feel it at least compare the two well):”all measurements were taken with the material pulled tight on flat on the ground” 1) I measured the length at the nose from seam to seam on both canopies ( Sabre 150 was 5” longer than a Safire 169) 2) I measured the center cell on each for width( Sabre was 4” shorter than the Safire) 3) Then because the Safire is lightly elliptical I measured the end cells for width(Safire tapers 13-1/2” center to end) 4) Then I created a 9” thick (flat) solid model of each in Cadkey and got a mass reading. Which stated the Sabre had a bigger mass(not by much) So with this a Safire 169 is just a little smaller than a Sabre 150. Which verifies what Icuras had told me. (both canopies were made in 2000) Blue Skies Kirk By the way it is not a type o I did compare my 169 to a Sabre 150

I believe he is talking about their wingsuit which is not completely ready for production release yet. Which is why they do not have a price listed yet for the wingsuit. Kirk

It is aparent that enough people dislike the advise I gave so I am going to give up on the thread. If I could I would delete my original post. I personally believe teaching S turns on final is about as dangerous as you can get at a busy DZ. It will someday cause a canopy collision. Kirk

I e-mailed Icarus and explained that this had been talked about here and if they could give me a reply that I could post so here is Icarus's reply The Safire-1 and the Omega are measured differently to PD canopies. As a rough guide a Safire-1 or Omega is about the same size as the next size down - eg A Safire 149 is about a 135. A Safire 119 is about a 109. Use an equation of 8%. The Safire-2 and Omni (Omni supercedes Omega) are measured the same as PD. All other Icarus Canopies are measured the same as PD. The reason for the difference is due to Precision measuring their canopies differently. Icarus have always measured the same as PD however when we originally commenced in the USA, Precision were building parachutes for us under license and were doing it using their size equations and not Icarus/PD's. We have therefore had to wait to supercede these models to change the size equation. Only the Safire and Omega were affected. Blue skies Simon Icarus Canopies USA: 1S671 Bender Lane, West Chicago, IL 60185, USA Ph. (630) 562-2735, Fax (630) 231-4430 Europe: P.I. El Ramassar, c/ Vallés, s/n O8520, Les Franqueses, Barcelona, SPAIN. Ph. (34) 938 496 432, Fax (34) 938 497 971 www.icaruscanopies.com

I would suggest the same thing to you at about 500 feet AGL go to 3/4 brakes hold for a few seconds and then let the canopy surge forward. Some of the drop comes from the 3/4 brakes and some comes from the pendulum effect when your canopy recovers from the 3/4 brakes. I tried it alot at first but on my current sport rig if I am going to over shoot I will just add some harness input. Reread your post it accures to me that you are missing that when the canopy surges forward after using the brake it WILL loss altitude alot quicker than full flight. Kirk

Really, that is amazing because what I described is exactly how I bleed off extra altitude when doing tandems and it really works well Kirk

To an extent your right there is no real one answer for all circumstances but sinking a canopy in is a very common way to fix overshooting your target. What I stated only really applies if your on final and know your too high. S-turns are a thing of the past (and are not a good idea do to others landing HP style near you)to bleed off altitude so going into deeper brakes and letting the canopy surge afterward is an effective way to not overshoot a target as long as your high enough to let canopy full recover which I stated twice in my first post. Kirk

If it looks like your going to over shoot your target one way to lose altitude is to go to 1/2 or 3/4 brakes this will slow your forward speed. Now some caution needs to be used on this you will need to go back to full flight before landing when you go back to full flight the canopy will surge down and forward so you will need to be high enough to make sure this is done before you get to the ground. This is an effective way to loose altitude but you need to make sure you go back to full flight high enough that when the canopy swings you back under it you are not on the ground. Kirk

Well they fly better than a vengence but with alot better openings Crossfire 2. Most inputs are similar but the Crossfire 2 I feel dives farther. If you can you should try one. Kirk

From your description it does sound like this guy was not very aware of the landing pattern but in the end all he did was get below you and mess up your high performance landing set up. It is not a safety issue or it should not have been if you were at 700 feet AGL, you still have plenty of altitude and time to do a flat turn or some other kind of out. I truly feel we share the sky it does not mean that the ones that have high wingloading should have special rules. At best I would have went over and mentioned to this guy that he should keep in mind the guys that do the high performance landings eat up a lot of altitude and start their final turn around 600 feet or so. I know that when I was at a low wingloading I was aware of the alitude loss the high wing loaded canopies loss but nothing I think truly gets it across until your sitting in the saddle at a high wing loading. Kirk

Ok, I am sure my opinion will not be popular but why do you "have to land first". I know that with higher wingloadings you come out of the sky alot quicker than the lighter loaded canopies but there are alot of ways you can still land safely after some lower wingloaded canopies. I mean it is not everyone elses concern that you are loading your canopy that much. I have had to abort more than my share of landings do to a lower and slower canopy being where I wanted to be but it is not there fault that they where in my way when they could not see me above them. I find this attitude that the higher windloaded canopies "must land first" to be BS. Dude, if you see someone in your way just go into deep brakes or flat turn. We all share the air and if that means every other HP landing will have to be aborted because of someone lower and slower so be it, just because we choose to have a high performance, high wingloaded canopy does not give us special rights. Kirk

During the learning period some deployment will not be ideal. On those deployments you will probably get line twist so it is always best to have a canopy that will react well to line twist. This is also the reason square are recomended in general. Until you cut away or unzip your hands you can not reach the risers to help fix line twist . Although these are just recomendations you can fly what ever you feel comfortable with. Myself I did my first 30 wingsuit jumps with a Falcon 195 then switch over to my Crossfire 2 130. Kirk

DCR'S are tall and thin. They work great for side mounting on helmets but can be used as a top mount(they just are much taller than TRV). TRV work great top mounting on a helment and that is about it. I believe both are of the same video quality just different shapes. Kirk

In the context of looking to buy a video camera that you could eventually use for skydiving, it would depend on what type of video work you what to get into. Most freeflyers use side-mounted video cameras so something like a Sony PC 105, or PC 109 or PC 330 would work great. If you were looking to get into 4-way video flying or tandem camera work most of them use the TRV style. Sony is the product line that is most dominant in skydiving. Kirk

That is so cool. I wish I could have afforded to go with you guys. You will have to burn me a copy of that jump and all the base jumps you did. Glad to hear everything went great. Do you know if the guy with the balloon would be up for doing it again later? Kirk

You can start by just getting out and jumping a whole lot. Experience is the one thing you will need much more of before strapping a camera to your head that will create a whole new set of emergency procedures and precautions. I know that it is not the answer you’re looking for but it is the truth. Kirk