tdog

But, if it fell out of a plane, how deep would the hole be? What do you think it's fall rate would be???

Grant, Sorry us "newbs" are ruining it for ya... No one needs to get so worked up over a silly forum. Can I buy you a beer to compensate you for the fact some of us are still learning here, and as we slowly take off the training wheels you might see us make a mistake or two??? T.

Now, that is what I was looking for! Nice pretty pictures, info, etc... Even a test you can take!!! http://www.divemaker.com/cdm/cdm/dp4randomtest.html Thanks!!!!!!!!!

Ok, So I am still figuring all this out… It would be kindof cool if someone could lead me to a glossary, skydiving encyclopedia, book, website, etc of RW skydiving terms and names of formations and moves, etc… It kindof sucks to walk by a few guys and hear them say we did a (insert word here) – and have no clue why everyone else is so impressed. (Of course I could just ask them, but if they are doing some intense training, I don’t want to interrupt.) If you have a reference material that was designed to be a textbook or syllabus to learn from, that would be super-cool – like giving progressively more difficult “tasks” to play with in the sky with friends. Not that I am trying to learn skydiving from a book, but it would be cool to have a benchmark to use with coaches/friends/peers to push myself farther along. (If you don’t know what you don’t know, you don’t know what to learn.) T

I think I will let someone else own/jump that astroturf rig... You gotta be joking.

Wow, the same thing happened to me this weekend... I now think twice about where the extra brake line stows and have adapted the way I grab the toggles. My finger is not gonna end up in the lines again. I guess your friend and I should buy the beer in bulk.

I know nothing... But I searched google and found lots of "Spectra Rope" used for other applications (rescue rope, industrial uses) available in all sorts of colors. Is spectra, spectra? If so, it looks like it can be made in different colors, now if it can be made to spec for skydiving - that might be a different story.

So, I see the Aerodyne products have color coded attachment points for the lines (all the A’s are one color, the B’s another, etc) I kind of admit I miss my paraglider because, not only were the attachment points, but all the lines, color coded. My A lines were blue, my B lines were red… Granted – “deploying” a paraglider is much more difficult than “deploying” a canopy because there are many more lines, and you disconnect the risers on every flight. Reconnecting the risers (on the hill) requires making sure all the lines are correct. But still, I have a few times in packing thought, “if these lines were colored I would be twice as likely to find a mistake at this point.” I thought there must be some technical reason why the lines in skydiving canopies couldn’t be colored… Like line materials. So I never asked… But then I walked by a canopy the other day with black and red lines (I think it might have been a base rig, it was in a ball so I don’t know who owned it or made it.) Other than saying, “we don’t need it”, any thoughts as to why color-coded lines, for vanity or ease of inspection, are not popular in skydiving rigs? Is there a technical reason, or just a lack of market desire? That rig with the black and red lines with black and red fabric was very sexy. I have attached a photo of typical paraglider linesets.

I agree and like your attitude (assuming the conversation on the ground was a productive discussion and not a flame fest).

A week ago there was a hot thread on this forum - most memorable advice... From my AFF ground school - this is one of the stories I remember (don't jump without looking): Apparently the pilot was resetting the switch for the light and went to green for a brief second by accident. A rather experienced jumper who was new to the DZ opened the door and jumped, trusting the light - landing miles away from the airport... I have been the first out many times in my short little skydiving carrier. If I can't see the where I want to land, I am not going, even if the light is green. So far, every time the light was green I liked the spot and jumped without delay, but... Please don't yell "go" to me, ok, unless I need to go to save my ass (like my PC has left without me), okay??? That is my feeling. Go should mean it, because, "dude, your pin got bumped, and I think your Dbag will be leaving soon too" just takes too much time to say.

EDIT: Since this is freeflyzoro's first post, I decided not to be part of this argument. First post deleted. I don't have a Mirage, but (almost all) my friends do. I thank them for making my friends rigs safer because I want to jump with my friends for a long time... Thanks Mirage.

Perhaps we can steal in idea from our paragliding friends... Look at DHV ratings for paragliders. http://www.dhv.de/typo/DHV_OeAeC_classifica.831.0.html But, it is DHV, not the manufactures, that rate the canopies... And look at the reports - you even get performance data... Wouldn't it be cool to know some of this info before you buy??? How about a third party doing the test flights and ratings? They could also measure canopy sizes using the same yard stick, and put together a complete report based upon standards without the manufacture getting involved... See this real cool DHV report for a Gin Bolero… http://www.gingliders.com/products/boleropl_dhv_m.php or the gangster http://www.gingliders.com/products/gangster_dhv_xs.php

I tend to agree... If someone yelled go, I probably would, regardless of separation, regardless if I was ready, thinking they knew something I didn't - like a pending deployment... I would then turn my dive into a track away from the last jumper, completely ruining my planned dive… I would hate for my fellow jumpers to train me to ignore verbal instructions and restart a count, as I rather be told to go instead of have to be tackled if my PC ever comes out… Fortunately I have never been told yet “GO” at our DZ yet - I have seen the tandem video guys (with a lot of experience) actually stand in the door making sure the separation is enough, not too little. I guess when I travel I will have to pretend “go” does not mean “go” from what you guys are saying.

I was told the guys pulled their mains but were not under canopy until after the cypres fired... Low main pull... They should have had two out, but the reserve PC never came out.

This weekend I added your "helmet, goggles, alti" check of threes, after almost leaving my goggles on the floor the last weekend I jumped (thought they were around my neck)... I think I will continue to use this... Thanks for sharing...

[Opinion #1] Some of the automotive recalls you talk about have nearly put companies out of business, and when they knew that it could (Ford-Firestone coverup a few years back) they tried to cover it up. Before a recall in automotive industry lawyers and accountants meet behind secret doors to determine if the costs of the lawsuits are more or less than the costs of the recall. Not to say this always happens, but it could happen, and it has happened… I rather a manufacture feel no financial pressure not to release a SB. We hope they put our lives above their profits... But the way to insure that they are willing to notify the public of safety problems is to make it financially independent. [Opinion #1/] [Opinion #2] When I put together a bid for my customers in my company, I have a line on the bid called “contingency.” When customers ask why, I say, “My employees will work every day in your office, and they likely will knock over a coffee cup in your office and spill on your carpet. If you want me to ‘insure’ you for that, meaning reimburse you for routine accidents, I am going to charge you for it now. If you want to take liability for small mishaps like that, you can pay later and I won’t charge you now. Which one do you want?” Point of this… The manufacture is gonna charge you now or latter for the “recall”. In automotive examples, recalls are built into the price of cars because the government makes all automotive manufactures play on the same playing field… [Opinion #2/] Now - the other side of me says, shit, that sucks, you will be without a rig for a while and have to pay $$$... Can't wait until my rig needs something done too, because I am gonna be mad...

Thanks for the list, weegegirl... I have some reading to do... I see you posted my article about thermals on your list. That article started one day as a post in a forum, and now it all of a sudden is recommended reading. I am honored that I was able to bring some cross-sport perspective... I hope it helps. Since winds aloft, thermals and other conditions can determine where you land and can create all sorts of landing hazards, yet most “consumer based” weather links don’t provide weather info for pilots, here are the hard to find aviation specific weather links that can help people determine winds aloft, spotting, likelihood of turbulence, etc that some people have PMed me for…(If nothing else, your friends will be thankful when you tell them to add an extra layer of clothing because you know the temperature forecast not only for the ground but jump run…) Do you want to add a "weather" category??? The “official” USA NOAA Aviation Weather website USA Winds Aloft and Temperature Chart from the Aviation Weather website Instructions needed to read the chart listed above USA Aviation Digital Data Service (winds, turbulence, radar) USA FAA Flight Service Center with recorded weather info: 1-800-WXBrief Non-government Weather Website for "Sport Pilots" Video, “Weather To Fly, Basic Concepts For Flight With Dixon White (1999)” Written for paraglidng, but useful for anyone with a canopy (search web for your favorite retailer)

I agree that disclosure is the best thing... By writing in the bill of sale: I have disclosed exactly what I HAVE or HAVE NOT done (which are documented facts) - but I am not documenting what SHOULD be done in the future or making any professional claims... A rigger + responsible buyer should then know what should be done based upon what I have not done.... Same logic process if I was selling a car and someone asked, "Does it need brakes?" I would say, "It has 60,000 miles and I have never replaced the brakes. I have no clue how long they will last, but I can tell you how long I have used them. Do you want to take off a tire and look for yourself? I will get the jack." If lawrocket replies to you, please let me know his view too... EDIT: our post X in the mail... He already replied.

While it may be the buyer's choice to NOT reline it and jump it as is... that doesn't mean the family wouldn't take legal action if something happened. In today's world, it's always better to write everything out and never need it, than to not write it out and need it. Ya... I faced the same thing selling a paraglider... But instead of saying what the canopy needed, I simply stated in the bill of sale: "Seller, while he personally few and owned the paraglider, is not qualified to judge the airworthyness of the wing and buyer is required to take full responsibility for it's use, obtaining professional advice, and having any inspections and repairs completed that are necessary to make it airworthy. Wing was purchased new on XX/XX/XXXX from XXXX, flown XXX times, stored XX months without use since last flight, and has had no modifications or repairs." I would never put in a legal document that the wing needs "this" - because if it needed "that" too, and I did not know I needed "that", I might open myself up to problems for implying that only one repair was needed to make the rig safe. EDIT TO ADD: And it would imply that I was qualified to inspect the rig. Now - not in writing, I would fully disclose what I knew, like "dude, I have not had this relined, it might be due. Ask your rigger to look at that." Just my thoughts...

I think you are referring to "Halo Freefall Warriors, Part 1." If so, it is not just airforce, it is all the branches... See the thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1411926;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Oh, and I think part 2 might be uploaded tonight by someone I know.

I learned to paraglide before skydiving. I never thought about the straps until you asked the question, but my routine is exactly the same now with the skydiving gear as I learned in paraglding... (old habits die hard.) Legs first... In paraglidng, the legs you can unclip, not step into - so if you fly without legs you die. If you fly without the chest you most likely will live but hold on for the ride. So, legs on first, off last. I never go half way - it is all or none. Also, I find myself being real anal about making sure the legs are exactly even, because under a paraglider that can turn you on launch very easy. I suppose the same is very true on deployment under a canopy.

This is gonna be long winded… I assume the original poster of this thread cares, and therefore I am giving him some of my time and opinion, but, here is your last warning to skip to the next post if you really don’t care… First, so you know my perspective, I have owned a few businesses. I have had to shield our employees and myself from a lot of risks. So, this is not my first rodeo, even though I will gladly tell you I am not a CPA or Lawyer and still make business mistakes every day… I have run a single person operation with me as the sole employee. I have owned a partnership. I have owned a company with many employees. Been there, done that, and still doing that… Here is my experience… First – break companies down to a few types. There are the multinationals corporations owned by many people. Then there are the large family owned, partner owned, or solely owned businesses. Lastly, there are the sole proprietorships owned and run by one person, for an example, an architect that owns his own solo practice… Most skydiving instructors I have met are in this last category as they work for a DZ as an independent 1099 contractor. A DZ may be the middle category, especially if they are big and own a lot of assets. I don’t think anyone in this industry is a multi-national. Each business type has different problems to solve. For an example, a business owned by more than one person ads a lot of complications a single owner business does not have… Multi-owner businesses require a shit load of paperwork to protect the business owners from killing each other over day to day issues. But, my following advice is based upon the notion that, a skydiving instructor will own their own business with no partners, and based upon the first post that started this thread, that no employees will work for that business (but may hire other independent contractors on a 1099 basis to support the business). My opinion is that there are two big picture items to tackle for this type of business beyond marketing and finding paying customers. Liability and Taxes/maximizing take home profit. LIABILITY You need to shield your assets and net worth from the lawyers who are working for the other side… If you are a shareholder in a publicly traded company, your risk exposure is only the value of the shares you own… Here a business truly does protect you. Since you are not materially involved in the day to day operations, your personal liability is limited. But, I don’t buy the argument that a business entity will shield personally owned assets when the business is owned and run by a single person. I know of a few small business owners who were personally sued, and I know of a few CEOs of multinationals taken to court for their personal negligence in running the corporation. I think skydiving makes businesses able to shield from risks from their owners even more difficult because most skydivers do it for fun also, so you will have to prove you were “working” the moment the incident happens that you are being sued for. You will also have to prove your equipment was owned, maintained, and operated by the company and not you personally. You will have to prove every word that came out of your mouth before the incident was the word of the company, not the word of you personally. And, if those words came out after the beer light came on, the jury is going to be curious as to why you were “working” while “drinking”. Also, what happens if the person you collide with is not a customer of your business but a third party on the same jump working with another instructor or on a fun jump? His lawyer can sue you personally pretty easily because this 3rd party does not have an agreement with your company, but was jumping with you personally. That argument could be turned around 180 degrees if the money was in the company. Anyway – the point being, I believe any good lawyer will figure out where you keep your assets and find a creative way to go after that entity. So unless you give all your assets away, I don’t believe a business entity will shield your assets from a lawyer. Instead, here is a brainstorm of initial things to consider (based upon some things that have protected me in the past)… You probably know these already... a. Get good documents (contracts, waivers, employee handbooks, etc). Use them. Make sure a sympathetic jury will believe them and understand them. b. Conduct yourself at all times professionally, on and off the clock. No matter how good the documents are; a sympathetic jury is always going to go with the victim if the accused is perceived as doing something risky (or more risky than others doing the same thing). “Ya, the victim knew the risks, but his instructor was seen leaving the plane without doing… The instructor should have been able to eliminate this risk, not cause it…” c. Follow standards (such as the USPA guidelines or any guidelines you can prove someone else created). If you tell a jury, “I followed this list of procedures, generated by experts in the field much smarter than me, reviewed by hundreds of my peers, respected by thousands – and the accident still occurred – this was a risk in skydiving the participant knew about while following the standard procedures,” I believe you will be much better off than saying, “I personally put together these procedures, I have tons of experience, and shit just happens in skydiving.” d. Follow the manufacture’s instructions. Duh… But it ain’t your fault if you did what someone else told you to do… Synopsis of c and d above… Whenever you do not make the decision to do what you do, you can transfer the liability to the person/entity who told you what to do. If you have good reason for following their instructions, the jury might buy it. Trade organization guidelines and manufactures instructions are to real easy things to transfer blame to. e. Refuse to work with customers that are higher risk than industry norm. I know this sounds hard – but I have turned down a million dollar contract because I saw risks I did not want to put on the line and in negotiations with the customer they were unwilling to adapt their expectations back to what we were willing to risk. f. Be careful of everything that is said or done, especially on video that will be played to a jury. If you think a jury might take it the wrong way, they probably will. If you say it to your best friend, expect them to have to testify…If you send it in e-mail, expect it to be printed. g. Do a careful risk analysis. Document every known risk, how you intend to deal with it, and any risk that remains after you have done everything possible to eliminate the risk. Put a dollar value on what the risk is exposing you to… See next line, because in a “normal business” you can protect yourself from the $ you are still exposed to. h. And lastly, since life is full of risks… insurance… But I know this is probably pretty difficult in skydiving…. So you might just have to accept the risk. If you can’t get the insurance, which I believe you if you say you can’t, at least find a real good business insurance broker (not your local guy who sells your personal lines) and get his advice… My insurance brokers have given me more advice than my lawyers and CPAs combined – they see every claim, not just the ones that goto court. i. And, very lastly – never tell people what kind of insurance you have unless you absolutely need to. Don’t let them think there are pockets to be dug into. Example – if a customer of mine asks for a certificate of insurance, we put on it the limits he requests, not the limits we have. Why let them know how deep our pockets are and what we are covered for??? Anyway – solve this problem with a good lawyer who knows liability claims and who knows how to protect you from them… TAXES What type of business gives you the most take home pay is a hard question. I probably could answer that for you in my home state, but I bet you live in one of the 49 others. A good CPA who works with a good Lawyer can help you. But, realistically, your income may not be in the millions with skydiving or flying a plane – so you have less to play with when playing with the tax laws than the rich guy next door… There are a lot of issues here… For an example, if you are an employee of a company, the company needs to pay unemployment insurance on you. That could be as high as 3%. Make sure you just don’t look at the federal taxes when putting together the bottom line. Put in all the business expenses from tax accountant fees to operational expenses associated with the type of business you are creating. There are ways to split your income into “salary” and “dividends” with some types of companies that give tax advantages, but again, these tools are of greater help to people who have $250,000 in income, not people with $50,000 in income… Especially since the “dividend” should be coming from the profit of the operations of the company if you never showed up to work and hired someone to run it for you, and the “salary” should be compensating you for your involvement in day to day operations if you chose to be involved, it will be hard to convince the IRS what should be dividend versus salary unless the company has a lot of profit from its assets and good will. So, what I would do is place your projected income on the top of a spreadsheet and figure out the TAKE HOME PAY for each business type on the bottom. The most money wins… It might take two companies working together to get the most money. A CPA, not a lawyer, will know how to make this sheet for you. And, while I did say above that a business entity will not provide adequate risk shielding without doing a bunch of other things – I do believe there are some business entities that may shield your assets better than others, and don’t forget to ask how to shield your personal assets from yourself so you can’t be expected to sell them to pay off a lawsuit… Once you have put together a list of the most tax efficient business you may have to choose a more expensive business in order to shield your assets… But I would not make that decision until you know how much more you will have to spend. Then the decision is like buying insurance. “Should I spend $X more to limit my risk by $Y?” Anyway, sorry for the long winded post… Take it for what it is worth… It is opinion and personal experience only…

Dude, awesome tat... I was in Vegas for work and on the radio they tattooed a few people with the radio call station letters in exchange for concert tickets to like 100 concerts.... I think BirdMan owes you a free suit for the ink. And when that one wears out, they owe you another. What is better in "brand identity" than someone who is willing to ink it???

I E-mailed the address on the www.skyventurecolorado.com website the same question a month ago. I got a reply from Norm and was put on the mailing list... I won't post the reply here, because I don’t have his permission to post... The basic info I got was identical to the copy of the web page text I posted below, but he did have a "target date" for groundbreaking and grand opening that was a little more specific, but in the same ball park... Location... This is from the public Skyventure corporate website: (LoneTree would make it by Park Meadows Mall at I-25 and C470.)

Here is my most boring post to date on DZ.com. I owe you all beer. I would never post something this boring if not asked by someone who wanted to know. I have started a few LLCs and Sole Proprietorships. It takes about 15 minutes in Colorado to start a LLC. The paperwork is all done with the Secretary of States office. There are minor yearly fees, less than $100… One time I did it with about 1 hour notice. Never paid anyone to do it for me. The year-end taxes for LLCs are filed on a partner tax return (K series) if there is more than one “member”. If there is only one member, the taxes can be filed on a Schedule C just like a sole proprietorship, or on the K-series. Either way, the taxes are pass thru, in that the members have to declare all the yearly profit on their personal tax returns, not a corporate return, regardless of if the cash was taken out of the company. Delaware seems to have the best business laws (favors business), so a lot of companies incorporate or LLC in Delaware instead of their home state. Here is a cut and paste from a website of a company that overcharges to help the little guy make LLCs. I am curious as to why you want a business other than a sole proprietorship (which doesn’t even require a business). Is it liability sheltering? Tax sheltering? It is my understanding that members of a LLC (the term for owners) – are sheltered from debts of the LLC unless they sign a personal guarantee. But, I have never seen any rule that says you can’t sue the member instead of the company for negligence. Lawyers will sue anyone and everyone they find to have pockets. Quick story… Our company insurance agent told me that his customer, a port-a-potty vendor, was sued by a homeowner, because the roof leaked and damaged the property. The port-a-potty vendor never set foot on the property, but just delivered a unit to the property line for the contractors. The electrician, painters, drywallers, framers, landscapers, architect, general contractor, carpet installers, tillers, and plumber were sued too. The roofer was at fault, but he had bad insurance and was not sued. Each insurance company, including the port-a-potty insurance company, paid $10,000 to settle out of court, even though they were not at fault. Add it all up, and the homeowner got $80,000 to fix a $20,000 problem. The lawyer knew the insurance companies have a $10,000 “settle” benchmark and would settle before the trial, and decided to dig for money instead of think, “logically it is unfair to make this poor vendor pay for something he had nothing to do with.” He also knew the insurance companies wouldn’t talk with the other companies to realize they were being had – and if they did, they still had a $10,000 settle out of court benchmark because it is less expensive than going to court, even if you can win. This story was told to me when I asked the question, “could I be sued for that?” and the insurance agent's response was, “I am gonna sue you for asking that stupid question, on the grounds you cost my company profit because you took me away from calling another customer, but will the jury believe you or me, or will your insurance company find it cheaper to settle, that is the question?” The point - well, I hate unethical lawyers and people, that is the point. But, I think there are limited ways to protect yourself from being sued, but there are a lot of ways to make sure you win. I don’t think forming company is the magic wand that will make sure you win a lawsuit, from what I have been told – I think the proper contracts and written documents are the key, along with your actions every day of your life. You don’t want your best friend called up on the stand, and under oath, have to admit you were known for taking risks, lets say while driving to the drop zone, because the jury will start to wonder if you were taking risks on the DZ too. Anyway, that is my experience from owning a few companies over the last 10 years and having to deal with a couple insurance claims. Oh, and I just thought of one other thing. I have personal liability insurance (thru my homeowner policy) which says if I am riding my mountain bike down the sidewalk and run over a grandma – they will pay for her medical bills, as long as my riding is not business related. (This applies to skydiving too.) If I were a newspaper delivery boy and rode for profit, they would not pay if I were on the clock. But I could argue I was just riding for fun while it happened (fun jump)… But, if I added a company to the mix, “bike delivery, LLC” – the insurance company might say, “you were riding a company owned asset, doing the core competency of your company. It is not personal.” Relate this to skydiving… If you own “great freefall, LLC” and it owns your gear, and you have an incident on a fun jump, your insurance company might start to ask who owned the gear and who trained you for the jump. I don’t know if this is a factor or not… You could probably get around it by setting up creative rental contracts between yourself and your company. Perhaps it is time to talk to a lawyer, which by the way - is not I. Oh, and one last thing, since you say you might travel. You owe income taxes to the state in which you work, even if you travel. If you think I am crazy, a major NFL team is in collections by Colorado for the taxes on the money the football players earned in Colorado while playing the Broncos… One game, one night. Now, there is a lot of money to be had, so it is worth it. Do I think Colorado is gonna go after a guy who coaches some skydiving for a weekend… Probably not, especially if you paid taxes to your home state… Also, a good friend works the X-Games as the sound engineer. He has to file income tax returns in every state he works in, as that is where ESPN withholds the money. Sucks for him. Will a LLC or Corporation fix that? A quick Google search for “limited liability company advantages” will educate you a lot, it did me. Many websites have matrixes that explain the benefits of each type of business. Sorry for being so boring.