prost

How did it break?

Ok , I take that back. It gets confusing when you start quoting other people.

When ZP material came out it was reserved only for high performance canopies. Then we realized it was a better material for everyone and it is used on less radical canopies. When the first ellipticals arrived they were very high performance canopies. We then learned that it was a better design and now even use it on student canopies. What do you think of cross bracing? Will it eventually find its way into less radical designs? What got me thinking about this was I was talking to a tandem master friend of mine and he mentioned that he thought cross bracing would be great for tandem canopies. What does everyone think?

At some point a small canopy has to be evaluated on more than just wingloadings. The difference is, a small cnopy at a 1.2 wing loading will turn much faster than a large canopy at 1.2. Its control range is much shorter. This means that on flare the range between a good flare and a stall is much smaller. If one toggle is pulled slightly more than the other on landing, the smaller canopy will turn to that side much more. This is all at the same wing loading. Forward speed will be simular. It is because of this shorter control range that we need to be more conservitive with smaller canopies.

First it was a design flaw, now a quality control problem. I think we have heard enough from you. This is not good for skydiving or this forum.

I didn't realize they were giving out demos yet. If they are I think you will have a hard time finding anyone who has jumped it because they are so new. I would suggest letting a few people try them out first so you can get an idea about how they fly. It will probably be a good canopy but I would hate to be the first one to find out it had a lot steeper dive than expected or some other performance differences that could hurt you. Or even worse, picture this. Can you imagine the people that learned the hard way about the Nova. My suggestion, let someone else be the crash test dummy. If you do try it out, please let us know so you can be our crash test dummy.

Nothing suspect? You must not have been around to many "Splat Wings". Truth is all of these canopies have collapsed at some time or another. Just because a canopy collapses does not make it suspect unless it has a high rate of failure. They are non rigid wings. Under the right conditions any non rigid wing will collapse. DBTech has posted this rumor in three places on this web site alone. It sounds to me like he has some personal issue against Crossfires. I have never seen him or anyone else give a good argument, only site rumors from unnamed sources. For some reason he is passing this rumor to anyone who will listen. Sounds fishy to me. I have also heard him say that he is against high performance canopy landings. If this is the case why should he even know anything about the crossfire as this is its best suit. As for your statement that we do not have this discussion about other canopies, the only reason we are having it about the Crossfire is because of DBTech. I have seen no one else come forward in his defense. The whole issue is rediculous and unfounded. This is coming from someone with a lot of experience on and around crossfires, not someone passing rumors.

That is the main I have seen. Someone at my dropzone was looking at the main to go in his second rig but decided he wanted something smaller. The canopy seemed to be in real good shape and did not have that many jumps on it. Paul is jumping at my dropzone right now (Gold Coast Skydivers in Moss Point, Ms). I can get some more info for you this weekend from the guy who jumped it and from Paul.

It could be the one I have seen. Wouldn't that be funny.

Who is the seller?

Roq, I keep seeing this same post in many different places. What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

I have only seen one first hand and it was ZP top skin and F-111 bottom skin.

My thoughts exactly Donna

I can tell you that any the crossfire does not have a design flaw that will cause the canopy to colapse in hard front riser turns. I have jumped the cross fire in every standard size from 149 to 109. This at wingloadings of 1.6 to 2.2. I am 239 with camera helmet and all gear on. I have tried almost every type of high speed approach including 360 degree turns where I first went into deep brakes and the unloaded one side of the canopy so I could pull the riser down to my waist. I have combined toggle turns followed by riser turns in the reverse direction. I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THESE TURNS. There are a lot of crossfires at our dropzone. We have no problems with them. The most important thing to know when performing high performance landings is knowing when not to perform them. I watched a jumper almost die this weekend when he tried a 180 hook turn in 20 mph winds. He was under a 7 cell canopy and two cells collapsed. Any canopy is capable of collapsing in the right conditions. As to your comment about pond swooping being worth it or not, have you ever been asked why you would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. To the people doing this it is very worth it. We know the risks and respect them just as everyone in skydiving does.

Thanks, Jim just got back to me with some great suggestions.

I can tell you that any the crossfire does not have a design flaw that will cause the canopy to colapse in hard front riser turns. I have jumped the cross fire in every standard size from 149 to 109. This at wingloadings of 1.6 to 2.2. I am 239 with camera helmet and all gear on. I have tried almost every type of high speed approach including 360 degree turns where I first went into deep brakes and the unloaded one side of the canopy so I could pull the riser down to my waist. I have combined toggle turns followed by riser turns in the reverse direction. I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THESE TURNS. There are a lot of crossfires at our dropzone. We have no problems with them.

Thanks Chuck. Right now I am in the proccess of figuring out where would be the safest and easiest place to build the pond. This info helps a lot.

In between Florida and Texas is Moss Point, Ms. It is just of I10. Get off I10 at the first Moss point exit (just before Biloxi), take a right, take the first right, follow road around airport, dz entrance on the left. We have a Beah 99 right now but are buying a Super Otter. The Otter should be here by the time you come by. Great place, everyone will jump with you when you are a new face. Always something going on.

Just say no!!

If we are going to build a pond I would like one that would be good for swoop competitions.

Do you know how big the pond in parris is?

Does any one have suggestions for building a swoop pond and for management of the pond? We are considering building a swoop pond and would like to know what has worked well or not so well for others. Depth, size, layout? Also suggestions on what control measures we should place on the pond.

There are many different combos that will work. It depends on how you want to fly. I will share with you what I have and maybe it will help you out. First of all I am 6'2" and 211 lbs. (235 out the door with camera helmet). I fly a tony suit. It has no booties, C wings, and has a nylon front. I wanted a suit that would let me go fast or slow. With the nylon front, I can pull my arms in and really fly fast but I still get enough lift with the arms fully out to stay up with anyone. The C wings have little clasps like the ones on a RSL that hook to your leg strap buckles. I like this because there is no gap between the wing and my body for air to spill through or for a pilot chute to go through (I actually watched a guy do this). Other manufactures have this type of wing with clips in the groin area. I would suggest wings that hook up in the center of the leg. You might have to adjust the wings to get them tight enough when you first get them. The C wing also attaches to the front of the arm. This gives you the option of filming on your back. This is a great shot because you can get way underneath the tandem and look up. However: you can not do this if you have booties. In my experience booties are not that helpfull for video and without them you can fall faster with everything tucked in. This setup works very well for me. Let me know if I can help in any other way.

Dan, Are there any demo competition Cobalts?

There are a few ways to do this. You will only get a good pic if you are using a digital camera. They are the only ones with high enough resolution to get a good pic. If you have high eight it will come out but you should keep it small. Most digital cancorders connect to your computer by a plug called firewire (IEEE 1394). You can get one of these cards to go in your computer and then you will also be able to edit video on your comp. A good inexpensive card would be the Pinnacle Studio DV. You can buy it for $89 and it comes with the card and software. If you do not have a digital camcorder or do not want to install an expansion card in your computer there are some options. Dazzle makes a kit that plugs into your serial port and you can run a cable from your analog out to it. The Kit will cost you $99. Or you can buy a Intel Pro Pack web cam. It has an external video plug that will capture stills from your camera. They cost somewhere aroun $100. It must be the Pro Pack to have the external video plug.