Michele

You learned something, right? (Bet you never miss looking at someone's chest strap again...) Your friend learned something, right? (Bet he never forgets his chest strap again...) You are sharing your error (and his) to teach the rest of us something, right ? ( musta been sorta hard to put it out here) Nah...not an asshole. Human, yes...asshole, NO! Thanks for sharing that, Jess. I eyeball everyone I can see - it's a concious thing - and have been known to say something if I see something odd. Jim Wallace taught me about that one day when he thought I had misrouted my chest strap - I hadn't, it just looked weird - but I have never forgotten to look at others since then. Appreciate it, Jess! And thanks for the unknown jumper who gives complete checks... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Asahi goes with anything...especially good for facilitating the aim of chinese spitballs... Ciels Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

NO, no. no.....NO! Didn't you learn anything from our cooking class? It's not flavor which is important....it is texture. New, unique textures rolling around on your tongue, that's what it's all about. 10 minutes behind Lama Dings to ping with the heli? Roger wilco...over! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh, good idea. How about those big ones you get with Starbucks Venti Frappacino (with hazelnut shots?) Those would be really good....better trajectory geometry and far larger calibre capability.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Well, then how the heck am I supposed to get my flour spitball groove going? Go to Hong Kong or Toronto? Oh. Wait. I get it.... Hong Kong. Toronto. SARS....maybe it's Five Roses spitballs which started SARS. Aight, hand over the medical Nobel prize, I just solved the mystery! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh, freaky, how kind you are. You think of everything! Did you also make sure some Asahi is coming with it so I can post over on the drunk thread? and flan....yummy...with extra spitballs there, too? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Does Shama Lama Ding Dong have a store here in Burbank where I can ride my bicycle to? I wanna ride my bicycle, I wanna ride my bike.... I do need a left hand mixer, though. I never could make spitballs with my right hand. Will someone order me some spitball kung pao for dinner, please? Ickle tickle tockle.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Uh, well, lessee..... The really superfine ground flour is best for actual baking...Gold Medal self-rising. And I buy it at Vons. But it would seem I need to change brands and stores - some people get special gifties...and I get left out. As they say, texture is where it's at, right? Tick tock... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

1-900-Mix-Alot...Yeah, a good number. Something like this... he had game but he chose to hit em and I pull up quick to get wit him so ladies if da butt is round and u wanna triple xbo down dial 1-900-mixalot and kick dem nasty thoughts baby got back Speaking of which... Tick tock! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

That's IT! There's the new name for my landings...Martini landings....yeppers, there ya go! ROFLMAO.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hi, DJan. Thanks for taking the time to respond before you went to the DZ....I wish I was heading there. Sigh...work calls.... As best as I can recall, the comments were along the lines of: ~"Don't waste your money - you don't even have your own gear yet". ~"You're not ready to learn to swoop; for god's sake you can't even land yet"... ~"You won't understand that stuff. You don't have anything to base your understanding on"... ~"You're gonna waste their time"... ~"All you want to do is talk about skydiving, not actually skydive"... ~"Throw your money away on that? You don't need it...you need to learn freefall stuff, not that!"... ~"Here, I'll help. I'll video you"...and then not being anywhere near the landing area to do it. 4 times. ~"You're just scared of it is all"... ~"Maybe skydiving isn't really for you?" (which, at the time, was a consideration...) ~"Lose some weight, and then you will be able to handle the rough landings better"...(WTF did that have to do with anything? Those're my bumpers!) I don't actually think anyone wanted me to get hurt. I really don't think there was that intent. What I think was happening was that I was struggling, people were watching, and not reaching out for whatever reason. And while that was a contentious time at the DZ for me and others, I really don't believe there was any desire to see me actually get hurt. (And to be brutally honest, there were a lot of folk who did encourage me, too...) It's just they were "too busy" to assist. And who'm I to think anyone would actually want to help (aside from those who did, in fact, do so...). They weren't too busy to watch me crash, or too busy to hand off a passing comment, but they wanted to jump - and so they did. And of course that's why they are at the DZ...so they can jump, not teach me, which is why I went to those who could, did, and will for anyone around. But what about those folks who don't? My point was that if I made it onto a list which tracks projected femuring in, taking bets as to when/what jump number, how bad, etc. (I am not sure what the qualifications are - I've never seen the list, only heard about it), and not told about the canopy class, then there is a group of folks who were aware that I was seriously endangering myself, and others, by not knowing what I was doing. If they were so aware, why was there no help - and discouragement actually? I would be willing to bet that there are several things going on here... 1. Peer pressure and the lure of freefall is stronger than the realization that the ground will kill you. (Biggest one) 2. There is a misconception of what Canopy Control Class is about; the thought that it is for HP landings, for learning to swoop, for "dangerous" wingloadings, not for beginngers. I heard a lot of "you'll get the hang of it"...I just wanted to get the "hang of it" before I broke myself...and wasn't instinctively picking it up. 3. There is no clear instruction of what needs to be learned for a safe landing. 4. The folks who write the ISP/AFF syllabus don't remember, or never had a hard time with, learning how to come down safely on today's canopies. 5. You leave student status, turned loose, and told "live free and prosper"...with very little follow-up (at least at a big DZ). 6. Folks think, because their friends and skygod rolemodels didn't, they are "stupid" for needing to take a class to learn how to land straight in. No-one wants to feel like the doofus... 7. Excellent freefall skills are perceived as more desireable in a jumper than adequate landing skills...you get invited on more jumps and get to play more with friends...and that is far more fun for the beginner...landings are, mostly, considered superfluous unless your entire reason for living is the swoop...When folks come down, they are gabbling about how great freefall was, not how great their landings are. They are laughing about how fun the fruitloop was, that sit went so well....but they don't talk about "man, my set up was perfect...right there!" or "geesh, I gauged the winds properly, and tippytoed it...yay me! BEER!". What we hear is "o.k., you had a bit of a spin, here's how to correct that", not "you flared a little bit high, here's how to correct that"... I sat back and assessed the danger points in skydiving. I put them in this order, and it may be wrong for some, but it's right for me...(there are others, such as altitude awareness...but where the injury risk is highest is here) A. Parachute malfunctions/deployments B. Landings C. Exits D. Freefall I am working on these, in that particular order, to minimize my risk in skydiving. AFF left off at A.... If education is the key, then we need to get education out there. Let people know that it's there. It can be had. It needs to be had. And I will always encourage everyone I know to take it. There is something to be learned from the experts... Thanks for taking the time, DJan, to read and understand where I am coming from. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Morning, Wendy I don't know about anyone else's experience, but those who I took from do have a well developed syllabus and if I'm not greatly mistaken it was developed from someone else's writings. I received a handout (which I read often), and there were drawings and everything (which, for me, was excellent). There were video tapes which were dissected and explained, showing things necessary (like the deflection of the canopy, in full, partial, and flared flight). There was discussion on planforms, cord and span, and so on (which went over my head, to be honest). Talk about lines, which were which, what did what, and why common things occur (like end cell closure) (and again, some of this was beyond my understanding at the time.) I'm clueless, too. Repeated ground throwing got me a glimmer of one, and I decided I needed to see what the shining light was all about. I don't want people to go through that, if possible. I would rather see someone not get hurt and take the time to get instruction then to go through a long and painful recovery (if possible) and then get some. I'm a wimp, I suppose...it took one serious crash with massive deep tissue bruising to make me strong enough to get the help. I didn't wait to break something (and the only reason I didn't break on that jump was because I'm short, fat and flexible...). So all you clueless folks, this is directed at you: If you see someone repeatedly crashing, coming off the field bruised, bloody, sore, hurt...take them aside. Teach them a little bit, or better yet, introduce them to those who do teach it...and if those guys aren't available, take the person's hand and walk them over to the most senior jumper, and get some sort of conversation going about how to land...and not kill yourself. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

As it is 9 am here, and as I have to get into the office, no, I am not drunk...unfortunately. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Thanks, Rhino. I think I know the point you're referring to, but I am not positive. I will do what I can to "feel" it on my next jump. Appreciate you taking the time to write it out! Thanks! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Does your DZ offer canopy control class? Please chime in, with a link if possible, to the DZ's web site. I am trying to get a feel for who, what, where and how much it costs at different places... I'll start... Elsinore Perris (which seems to not have it up just yet, but Team Extreme teaches it and you can reach them from the manifest phone number) Thanks, guys... Ciels- Michele Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Nope, you didn't...just haven't had the time recently. That will have to change, won't it?? LOL! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

What you're going to do, my friend, is stay wanting, stay hungry. Look to the sky, and know it will not go anywhere soon, and know - really know - that you will return one day to it's soft blue arms, and you will fly again. And then, you just keep hunting for a job - something that will allow you to come home again, be satiated again, come back to yourself again ...and you will find it. And you will post more! miss you! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh, shoot, Richard, go have a Red Bull and Vodka and you'll feel all better..... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

How do you decide who "needs" it? I was seen throwing myself all around the ground, sometimes having difficulty standing back up...and only one suggested I take the training...(and that was via a pm and really rather nasty...and my response to that person was if you saw me, why didn't you bother to come help me??? To which there was no answer...). So how and when do you determine who needs it? To give quade his due, he did spend a morning with me helping me understand basics, as did John Brasher - and I learned a ton from both of those men. But if there was ever a femur waiting to break, it was me. For christ's sake, I was on the bet list of how soon I would break....and told only after I had taken the class that this list even exists. You know, if it was that obvious, why was I never encouraged - in fact, harshly discouraged from - taking the class??? So what do you do, Bill? Wait for someone to downsize and break, and then tell them to go take a class? Or help them arrange it? Introduce them to those canopy pilots who are willing to help? (oops, sorry, I'm ranting a little, but I am still furious about this)... I was not even told about the canopy control class during AFF. At no point was it ever recommended to me that I do it immediately off student status. peer pressure is not "take the class", peer pressure is "go buy all new kit", "you'll grow into it", "you'll be color coordinated, you'll look cool", chicks dig scars". Peer pressure is being invited on an 8 way when you're right off student status; peer pressure is "learn to sit fly right now - c'mon, let's go"; it's "a load in 10 minutes? Sure, I'll be there" without ever once considering your ability to land in those specific conditions... You know what? There is no peer pressure to take a class. None. Matter of fact, the pressure I experienced was "don't take the class"...I still get given some grief about the number of HnP's I have in my 64 jumps - 11 to date, soon to be more - because that's not "fun"...well, maybe not the same kind of fun, but it will provide me the way to have more fun. I mean, how fun is a hospital bed? Or coma? That can't be any fun...the sky will wait until I learn...but there are people given grief about actively seeking canopy control instruction, and therein lies the problem. O.K., I just read this over. I am indeed ranting....and it's not directed at anyone in specific, I promise. Just don't know what else to do. There will be people who read this, think "oh, not me", and end up in the incidents. Some people who I admire for chasing canopy control? Rhino. Clownburner. Am I proud of it? Absolutely. Do I need much more? Without any kind of doubt. I spoke with Clint at the boogie, and told him It's time for a check-up, and he and I (or one of the instructors) will be getting together soon for that. Education works. But it only works if one gets it, and one can only get it if one knows it exists. And with that, I think I will try to step off the soapbox....sorry.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

If I'm not very careful, I won't be able to afford the Bridging the Gap next weekend, so no jumping for me this weekend. CB, you will be at Elsinore for the Gap, won't you? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Nope, it won't. It will hopefully prevent you from doing something dumb and having those screams come from you...or worse, silence. What it can also do is show other new licensees it's alright to take the class...it's o.k. to learn from an expert. Set an example. Be different. (Hey, maybe I can be canopy control class nazi #1?) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Have you taken a canopy control class yet? One of the most impactful things for me was being in an otter taking off while the ambulance drove way out to someone. Watching the spinning flashing lights as we took off was very, very difficult... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Thanks for that, Mustard. And I understand your codicil about the BOD pov and making sure we know the views above are yours alone (not that they are not shared, but you stated your position). So then the question comes in to play about the situation I encountered, and also about the number of folks who avail themselves of canopy instruction. I put up a recent poll in the Canopy forum which indicates that 27% (+/-) of people have, at some point, received training in how to fly the canopy; that leaves 73% (+/-) who have not yet received it. Do 73% of the people go out of the plane without freefall instruction? No... Some of the complaints seem to be: 1. Availability 2. Cost Back when I was a prelicensee (two whole years ago!

Do you have any suggestions? Anything which has already been proposed and/or discussed? Even if not clear, it might create a starting point to generate some ideas. There are some wonderful minds out here... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~