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Airtwardo wrote I've never experienced a sleeveless terminal velocity round canopy opening. Both my cutaways were from messed up mains, but definitely subterminal. I imagine a sleeveless C9 opening at 120-200 mph would range from rough to brutal. Eagle Scout huh? That impresses me a lot Airtwardo, and I am not being sarcastic. I was Second Class, a fitting rank for 377. We lower ranked Scouts comforted ourselves by concluding that the Eagles were dorks, ass kissers and mama's boys... but in our hearts we knew they had the right stuff and would likely do far better than we would in the great life beyond Boy Scouts. My scoutmaster, dismayed by my lack of ambition to rise in rank, lectured me sternly about my wasted potential for "leadership" but I really didn't want to lead anybody. He didn't get it. I had no CEO ambitions. Eagle Scout still shows up on resume's and it gets attention. Congrats. Any other Eagle Scouts here? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Airtwardo wrote I wonder what the history is on non sequentially numbered crime proceed currency being detected in general circulation? I'll bet the detection rate is dismal. Today OCR would make it a lot simpler. Can you imagine how taxing it would be to manually compare each twenty to a list of ten thousand recorded non sequential serial numbers? Nobody but the US Treasury would put in the time needed and even they might balk, regardless of what the FBI was requesting. Airtwardo, you've made night jumps with payloads. You have a good idea of the materials Cooper had available to him to contain and secure the currency. How do you see the loss of money happening? Would the exit forces actually break a piece of suspension line cut from the reserve? Would they tear a bank bag open? I guess it could be as simple as Cooper being lousy at knots. Every Boy Scout remembers how to tie a bowline, a very secure and easy to tie and easy to undo knot. Maybe Cooper never went through Scouting, boot camp or OCS. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger wrote Did you get Harold Camping's job? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger wrote: Georger, Did you miss the part where the two Cooper chutes were allegedly taken to the plane from Norman Hayden (who then owned and still runs a machine shop), not from Cossey's rigging loft? Hayden still has the main chute not used, with Cossey's signature on the packing card. It is stored in his machine shop. Norman Hayden worked on stuff for Boeing. Dunno if he was machining pure titanium pre Norjack but it's sure worth asking. Snow suggests: 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Airtwardo wrote: ...it would have been even easier on a round, pull the ripcord and sit there. *** At first I thought Airtwardo was way off with this statement but then I thought about it and he is probably right. No worries about slamming into something at a speed a lot higher than the wind is blowing, no need to flare the canopy which requires good info on distance to the ground, no worries about unfixable line twists and killer spins... All things considered, a C9 military round is a pretty good choice for the jump Cooper made. I do wonder if it had a steering mod like a 4 line release. Cossey should know. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I think Tom Kaye may be correct about aircraft titanium always being an alloy. What about pre production prototype work? Pure titanium is easier to machine than the alloys are. Might pure titanium have been used for aircraft part mockups or prototypes? If the curley coils on the tie are indeed pure titanium who was machining it and for what purpose? Could the tie have picked up the titanium from contact with Normans chutes? Norman operated a machine shop that did work for Boeing. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry, You keep writing about an "airline pilot" being able to operate the door when you are conversing with Blevins about KC. I don't understand. KC wasn't a pilot. Blevins never claimed that he was. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

In SA it is tradition that you do your 100th jump naked. Depending on the club, you may well get a load of naked jumpers to do it with you. (I got away with doing mine clothed because I was doing a competition jump at nationals, novice category obviously, on my 100th) . Orange, You didn't "get away" with skipping your naked 100th jump obligation. It was just postponed. SA jumpers read this forum. They will make sure that protocols are honored. I saw so many naked jumps at WFFC that I got bored, well not really but that' what I told my whuffo girlfriend who accompanied me. Her: "Are you staring at those naked women?" Me: "Naked???? Are you sure? Oh my goodness, have they no shame?" Naked freefall isn't so sexy. Aerodynamic flutter and all that. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Airtwardo wrote Hey Airtwardo! Good to see you posting. You are an experienced demo jumper and flag dragger. The average skydiver would have a hell of a time making a stable exit at night from a 727 with a big external load. Do you remember that jumper (1970s?) who went into somebody's yard at night with kilos of cocaine strapped to him? He was a no pull. Some speculated that he couldn't stabilize and went into a high G flat spin. This is from Wikipedia: Gucci loafers??? Thorton was a trained Army paratrooper too. Odd choice of jump footwear. Doing any West Coast airshows next season Airtwardo? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Not a UFO Georger. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYW08S3dAUs&feature=youtube_gdata_player There is no proof Cooper knew about the details of these jumps but if he did, he knew how to get a stable exit even at night even with a big asymmetric attached payload. Use the deploying squidding canopy as a stabilizing drogue. Start the deployment on the steps. Get pulled off. Hard pull? No worries. Stay on the stairs until you get a good pull that extracts the ripcord pins from the pack cones. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry wrote No spin if you pulled right on the stairs facing forward and let the deploying canopy pull you off. Watch the Air America 727 jump videos. You'll see a very obvious solution for the potential aymmetric payload induced spin problem. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If he survived the jump he sure as hell wouldn't pack it out. He'd leave it, concealed if possible. If he died it's out there too. Either way there should be a canopy and rig at or very near his landing site. Anybody disagree? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote OK Jo. That's the one thing I'll remember. Odd choice for an epitath. It seems so tangential to the hunt for Cooper. Jerry could have lied to you but that doesn't make Duane into Cooper nor does it mean Jerry is part of a conspiracy or coverup. I know you will never agree but the blowup between you and Jerry about geography may simply be due to a mutual misunderstanding. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung wrote: Well I wasn't so cool Farflung. I wore clip ons for hundreds of occasions. It took me a LONNNGGG time to even "get it" that clip on ties were looked down on as uncool and nerdy. I mean how could someone tell if it was a clip on if I couldnt? Well, "they" were considerably more perceptive than I was. I didnt wear a pocket protector, or a slide rule holster, but I did have my bamboo slide rule on me in plain sight at all times, being an "open carry" kind of guy. It was a Japanese behemoth, with obscure scales nobody had even heard of. I mostly just used the C and D scales. I left the hyperbolic trig and log log stuff to guys like Snow and Georger. I remember when my college girlfriend took off my tie for the first time. SNAP! "This", she said, holding up the prosthetic neckpiece between her thumb and finger like it was something filthy, "is NOT sexy." "We need to take you shopping." Slowly, with gentle feminine guidance, I learned the ways of fashion, at least well enough that people stopped saying "I'll bet you are an engineer" before I spoke a word. We have quite a few tech sci folks on here. I just bared my uncool roots. It's confession time. Fess up. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don Kirlin knows a lot about 727 jumps. He also owns a private air force which includes Mig 21s and Mig 29s. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.10/kirlin.html He probably knows more about the Boeing 727 extended stair flight tests than anyone outside Boeing. He had to get access to all that data to prove to the FAA that skydivers could safely jump from a 727. I assume that Don got some sort of FAA authorization to operate a 727 with extended stairs, perhaps an STC? I met Don and his wife Susie at WFFC. They are very wealthy but didn't act stuck up at all, very warm and friendly. I jumped on a load with Don and he can certainly hold his own in the sky. I've emailed Don twice asking him about Boeing's flight tests and documentation but no reply. He has replied to emails about other subjects. BTW, Don isn't a DB Cooper suspect. I just hoped to get a glimpse of the Boeing documentation to see how extensive it is and perhaps get a clue as to who knew about it prior to Norjack. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I never washed my ties Farflung, but that doesnt mean they didnt need washing. I figured it was a job for pros, like tie riggers. Every 10,000 hours I sent them in for an IRAN and/or a C Check at: http://tiecrafters.com/alterations.html They took care of all the ADs etc. Tie Crafters always did a great job and could even turn wide ties into skinny ones and vice versa as fashion changed. Why modify ties? I was stuck on my old patterns. Dark Paisley is never out of style, right? ...at least not for an engineer. Tie Crafters did not advertise, but undoubtedly offered, the crime scrub special, which included a post wash Luminol screening before shipping. For an additional fee they can add obscure regional pollens to support an alibi. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger wrote Nope. He did, however, steal Julius Rosenberg's tie. Hardly. Duane's plan for the redistribution of capital did not involve giving anything to the proletariat. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry, Simple question: Did the Amboy canopy have risers? If so what type of metal fitting was on the harness side of the risers? Was it a Capewell fitting? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry Thomas says he has seen the Amboy canopy. I asked him to describe it but he never did. As an Army parachutist and skydiver, he'd know what the fabric was made of and what type of canopy it was (person or cargo). I want to know if it had risers at the end of the suspension lines and what the fittings looked like that connected the risers to a harness. The fittings would could rule out any of the DBC chutes if they were Capewell release fittings. Come on Jerry or Ckret. All we need is a photo of the riser end hardware (if there were any risers attached to the canopy) and we may be able to rule out DBC regardless of silk, nylon, or Farflung's personal favorites: spandex, rubber and satin. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Ripstop is a special weave of nylon that has perpendicular larger stronger reinforcing threads woven in at intervals among the smaller threads. The larger stronger threads help prevent a hole or tear in the woven fabric from propagating as a rip to the next seam. You see ripstop on better quality nylon parkas and sleeping bags. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripstop When I started jumping there were still a few surplus 24 foot non ripstop canopies used as reserves. Their fabric looked and felt like silk and was called nylon twill. The twill reserves were killers, sometimes ripping during a terminal velocity deployment. I think they were designed for paratrooper use where a terminal velocity reserve deployment was very unlikely to happen. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Krip wrote Thom on his excellent parachuting history website wrote about a cheapo mod called the Hustler. They way he praises its performance makes it sound like it was almost as good as a PC. I jumped all the cheapo mods I knew of LL TU5 TU7 etc but never heard of a Hustler. I find it hard to believe that the Hustler was as good as he reports. Anyone jump one and have a report? My first jump was a cheapo C9 like most everyone else back in 68. Still jumping thanks to squares. How lucky I am to have increasing age coincide with big advances in canopy design. No more brutal landings. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung wrote about the Ambiy chute You forgot The Blind Boys of Akabama. Ronnie Milsap is a ham radio operator. Doesn't that make it likely that he has an interest in DB Cooper? Don't school me about the differences between correlation and causation. They're close enough for forum work. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie Cooper asked in a PM whether his father who allegedly sought employment at Boring might have been given a machine shop tour and picked up the metal shavings found by TK. I replied below: Would Boeing have been machining pure (not alloyed) titanium? I believe Tom K says aircraft only used titanium alloys. Bruce, have you checked with Norman to see if he machine pure titanium prior to Norjack? Snow's idea that the metal particles might have been on the rigs is worth looking at. The FBI Lab should have found the metal particles. How could they miss it? Either they were asleep at the wheel or TK scooped them. I'd bet on the latter. I doubt that the metal was put on the tie after the FBI lab work was completed. I did see a few FBI Lab screw-ups in my day. They think they are experts at everything in science and engineering and sometimes miss what an outside specialist might have found. One FBI expert I cross examined was really unqualified to render an opinion in the technical subject he testified about. They didn't always screw up. When evidence was in their technical sweet spot they did some impressive forensic work. Those spiral coiled pieces (shavings) sure look like what you'd see in a machine shop. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

12,500 foot jump ticket $12.50 UC Berkeley tuition, approx $2250.00 per year 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote Riddles, secrets, unfulfilled promises, teases... Yawn. How about just putting your cards on the table? You truly seem unable to simply disclose. It's always a hint, a puzzle, or a promise of things to come. Remember your recent promise to disclose blockbuster evidence that the FBI couldn't ignore? Days turned into weeks turned into months and you produce absolutely nothing, just more riddles and teases. Jo, I don't think you are a con artist, but you operate like one. You lure people in with spectacular claims, but never ever deliver. You keep suckers on the hook with promises of great things just around the corner. Instead of asking for our money you ask for our attention, our patience or our assistance in chasing phantoms. Carry on. We all know the drill. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.