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It takes a very long antenna to do justice to transmitted signals in the LF MF bands. Short coil-loaded subsitutes are just so-so. When you are trying to get a DF shot on a weak LF or MF signal with a loop antenna if the signal is weak the null is very broad, giving you huge uncertainty in your bearing. Strong sigs give sharp nulls and good accuracy. I remeber shooting the Farallon Island beacon on 318 KHz from 100 miles out. The null was so wide that it was almost useless. As I got closer then signal got stronger and the bearing null became very sharp. As I recall the beacon was 100 watts and had a big tower vertical antenna. That's why I am so interested in finding out if the MAC SOG jumpers in Nam were able to use essentially AM broadcast band very low power sigs to rendevous. Conventional wisdom would lead you to much higher freqs where small antennas work well. Maybe they thought out of the box and made it work. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farf wrote: Farflung, did your Twinkie feast cause you to miss my earlier post saying exactly this? Or were you wrapped up in a silk and nylon test with Marla? Here is what I posted (emphasis added): 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Agree. And what's a good explanation for the corners of twenties to be torn off and allegedly buried right next to Ingrams find? Cook's story that fishermen are just interested in fishing and cant be bothered with a red hot national news story that they may have scooped doesn't sound plausible to me. Does anyone recall when the news broke about Ingram's money find? It was a VERY big deal. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Those DFs depicted in Farfs poster covered all or subsets of a range from 200 KHz to about 3 MHz. None of them would work on a VHF or UHF signal. It isnt all that hard, however, to make a crude VHF or UHF DF by just hooking up a directional antenna (like a Yagi beam) to a receiver and swinging the antenna for a maximum signal. Hams have been holding "fox hunts" since long before 1971. A fox hunt is an event where hams compete to find hidden beacon transmitters, often on VHF (144 MHz) or UHF (440MHz) bands. Here is a ton of info on the subject: http://www.homingin.com/ I am still digging hard trying to find out what the MAC SOG guys used to rendevous after landing at night in the N Viet Nam wilderness. I get hints that it may have been as simple as Sony AM band transistor radios with ferrite bar antennas (very directional) and low power AM band beacons. You would get a 180 degree ambiguity in the bearing using a simple transistor radio but with a low power beacon you'd soon realize if you were walking in the wrong direction as signal strength would decrease rapidly. Whatever they used apparently worked well and doesnt seem to be documented in any Internet data that I could find. THAT's why we need Snowmman back, he'd find something. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info. McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft. 377 __________________________________________________ That answers that question -- two more questions for you 377: could DBC have brought on board 305, either in the briefcase or in the paperbag, a bailout type beacon (the flares maybe)? If so, could a land vehicle be equipped and capable of getting a bearing on that bailout beacon frequency? Thanks. MeyerLouie MeyerLouie, Let me see if I can help answer your questions. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, emergency locator transmitter beacons (ELTs) were just being introduced into small general aviation aircraft. I don't remember the year that they were mandated by the FAA, but some of the early ELTs were very small and could be, and were, mounted on the side of the baggage compartment of even the smallest aircraft (such as Cessna 150s). You could almost carry these things in your shirt pocket based on their size. They had to be mounted in a direction such that longitudinal impact forces would force a weight forward to turn on the transmitter switch during accidents. And the pilot was responsible for seeing that the ELTs were not activated as a part of his shut down check list at the end of a flight. These ELTs operated on 121.5 and 243.0 on the VHF and UHF bands, respectively, when activated. To locate aircraft after an accident, the search aircraft would ideally have a VHF/UHF "direction finder" capability. Military search aircraft had such a capability. Perhaps 377 knows if such a piece of equipment was available to general aviation and ships in that time frame. But Cooper could easily have had one of these ELTs in his paper bag or coat pocket. However, anyone who wanted to locate him would need the "direction finder" end of the system. Robert99 Robert 99 gave a good account of ELT beacons. If Cooper had used one on 121.5 MHz (its second harmonic is 243.0 MHz, a military distress freq) it would likely have been heard by military aircraft and reported. Common UHF radios carried by military aircraft in 1971 were the ARC 27 (older) and the ARC 51. Both had full time "guard" receivers that listened on 243.0 even when comms were being made on other frequencies. Hand held direction finders for tracking ELTs and bailout beacons were available in 71. I have a working military surplus one used in Viet Nam. Here is a type of DF for 121.5 used in civil aircraft: http://bit.ly/SXZfSs Similar ones were available in 1971. They weren't often found in normal private planes but were used by Civil Air Patrol aircraft. Because 121.5 and 243.0 were "hot" distress freqs it would have been nuts for Cooper to use them. He could have modified the gear to use alternate freqs but that's very unlikely. My guess is that if Cooper used any radio gear it was a CB walkie talkie. With luck a rendezvous could be made with this gear by sighting well known peaks and giving bearing info to each other. Do I have any proof that radios were used? Nope, zero. Marla gave a VERY convincing account of her uncles' CB walkie talkies. Lots of physical detail. I'd bet they had them and that they were a Midland brand model. It proves zero about Norjack involvement though. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info. McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Vicki wrote Thanks Vicki. Your sharp memory saved a forum detour. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I'm not a camera guy, but aren't shutters pretty well protected behind the lens? How would they shed titanium on a tie? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote So sue me Jo. Lets say you could prove that I damaged Duane's reputation with a defamatory statement. The burden of proof for damages is on the plaintiff. Good luck on that one Jo. Do you think you could convince a jury that his reputation was worth fifty cents? If you could you have missed your calling as a trial lawyer. Damaging Duane's reputation is legally similar to running into a parked derelict stripped out vandalized wreck of a car. Sure, the owner could sue you but the damages would be "de minimus" as the law books say. You rant more about lawsuits than anyone on the forum. You'd better have a big stack of DBC twenties if you think you can finance litigation. Lawyers will strip your purse faster than Duane ever did with any of his victims. I like you Jo but I do not think Duane was a good guy. I worked with over 100 "Duanes". Most of them had a "Jo" who swore that their mate was different from all the other crooks. You see Duane as a basically benevolent person and at times even a hero. I don't share your opinion of his character or his abilities. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Nothing in my post says Duane was a drug addict, and by the way pot is not addictive in the way that opiates are. Believe it or not some cons prefer prison to outside and do stupid things to get back in. I was suggesting that Duane might have been one of those people. Prison is the VERY LAST place a drug addict wants to go. Sure, drugs are available but quantities are very limited, prices are extremely high, and they can test you anytime they wish. So calm down. I make you sick? OK, so be it. Live in your persistent delusion that Duane, the lying thieving sociopath, was a decent person, fine parent, a positive contributor to society... And that he successfully executed on of the most daring and innovative crimes of the 20th century. If Duane Weber turns out to be DB Cooper I will shoot clean and cook a real crow. They abound in my neighborhood and a pellet gun is pretty quiet. I will then eat it. For real. And if you think it is good parenting to offer illegal drugs to your kids you are so out of it that I don't know how to respond effectively. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It's a very intriguing story but I sure have a hard time believing that it wouldn't have been told to the FBI right after the Ingram find at Tena Bar. I mean it was front page national news. No way the boys or those who heard their story could have missed the Tena Bar story. So why would they keep their own earlier find a secret? People who have arrest warrants outstanding steer clear of cops but there is no indication that the kids had warrants. Glad to see Galen is still in the hunt. He is not quitting the addiction. Good. Hope he pursues this alleged money find further. Can he get a plausible reason why the find was not reported to the FBI? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The Duane Weber Drug Rehab Method: here child, lets smoke some dope together. Odd... I am truly glad he took care of you and loved you Jo. That way you have some good memories to neutralize the bad ones left by a sociopathic liar, con man and thief. I've been thinking about Duane's arrest record. I defended accused criminals for years. Junkies get arrested all the time because they steal and when they are high their judgement is shot. They are easy pickings for cops. Even the junkies didn't have 26 arrests. I was trying to recall the highest number of arrests any of my clients had and I can't recall any higher than 14. 26 arrests... Was there something in jail that Duane craved? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Harvey Milk has become 100% hero since his assasination by Dan White, but I despised him for being a pimp for Jim Jones. I lived in SF at the time. Jones was buying high level support left and right. Jim Jones was unbelievably pursuasive to his cult members. I knew one of them, Jann Gurvich. Before joining Jones's People's Temple, she worked as a paralegal on a criminal case I tried. She was smart, but always looking for some cause to believe in. She found it with Jim Jones and followed his group in their exodus to Guyana. Her father Louis, a prominent New Orleans lawyer, was trying to put together a band of mercenaries to go to Guyana, raid Jonestown and take back his child. He was too late. Jann drank the Kool Aid in Jonestown and died. It's a very tragic story. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1734&dat=19810331&id=KIEcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fVIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4217,9276672 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Fear not Farflung, "street" Twinkies and Ho Ho's will soon be plentiful. https://www.google.com/search?q=twinkie+recipe&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari Twinks and Ho's. Odd choice of names for baked goods. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Do you really think a father rolling a joint and smoking dope with his (step?) daughter is an example of good parenting? And telling her to cancel her date/weekend plans? What was that all about? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung wrote Great idea Farflung. I am sure that Marla can tell us in a second whether it is silk or nylon. I'll bet she knows a lot about the distinction and could do the test with her eyes closed. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote Duane wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. The Army realized it right away. He has dozens of arrests and a pile of convictions that corroborate the Army's assessment: undesirable. Unable to perform. Lacking ability. Lacking character. So this same bumbling guy who cant even pull off a joyride or a purse snatch without getting caught conceives and executes the crime of the century and outwits the nations' top law enforcement minds??? Jo, how likely is that? Do you really think Duane the incompetent bumbler morphed into Superman? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Steve Martin tweeted: "Great news! Just signed Paula Broadwell to write my biography! Whee!" 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

DSE, THANK YOU! What a truly awesome comparative review, as objective as humanly possible. Looking forward to seeing the GoPro3 reviewed. 377

Ask his wife. Ask Paula's husband. Ask the people who had to arrange, at taxpayers expense, to provide fresh pineapple to the General every single day, no matter where he was. He is a jerk hypocrite. Do you really think he got caught the first time he committed a breach of trust and an act that routinely gets those of lesser rank court martialed? Fk him. Glad to see his pompous self righteous ass fall hard. And don't think he is a straight up guy who in a moment of introspection felt guilty and openly confessed. The FBI had him in a squeeze. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung, Another fine poster, thanks. How the hell did you find the Frankenford, a tragic marriage of a Ford Pinto and a Cessna Skymaster? It is a very obscure aircraft. You probably know that the wings broke in flight and killed the pilot. Might have even been two aboard. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farf wrote A senior scientist working at a CIA satellite maker company was seduced at a Euro scientific conference by a hot Russian minx. When the photos were shown to him and the squeeze applied he just laughed. Their intel was stale. His wife had died a few months ago. He dutifully reported the liaison to company security and DISCO. Nothing serious happened. Who said there are no free lunches? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

What's the big deal about General Betrayus? It's typical for adoring syncophant biographers to kiss celeb butt. Betrayus just took it forward a bit. It's just sex. Doesn't affect drone assassinations or any of that important CIA bidness. I am surprised Sheridan Peterson hasn't opined about the scandal. He despises military hypocrisy and all three letter agencies. And Jo... my my my. Calling Marla Cooper Ms "Twisty Butt". Where on Earth did you come up with that one? I checked with my Kentucky linguist and she says that isn't Marion County country slang. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Thank you Mr. Science. I will sleep better tonight. So we have Mr. Science, Ms. Drama, Mr. Bipolar, Mr. Radio and others to whom we can turn for different flavored answers to the deep questions that Norjack raises. I like Mr. Science's answer. It's clean, simple, honest, just as he promised. Logic isn't especially pleasurable or fun, but if that's what I seek, it abounds elsewhere. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I won't post anything that would reveal Farfs identity to Blevins, but if Blevins is wondering if Farf has the chops to opine on matters aeronautical, the answer is yes. He's flown some big ugly stuff Blevins. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.