377

Yikes. I have managed to do 40 years of injury free jumping avoiding stuff like Snow is suggesting. I recall so many scenes like this: "yeah, sounds like a really great jump idea. I'd definitely join you but I: a. have to travel that weekend b. am a bit rusty for serious RW, maybe next time c. have to send in my Cypres for a 4 year service" etc. Actually I am planning a jump in October that will combine one of our mutual hobbies with skydiving. Not very daring but novel. It will involve high altitude oxygen gear and HF radios. If you started training now Snow you could definitely join us on the jump. We could really use your expertise. I have a spare rig that would be perfect for you so you wouldn't have to buy one. If you could figure out how to operate HF QRP RTTY under canopy it would rock the staid world of ham radio. I bet we could make the cover of CQ magazine. It is really odd how many of the people who post here have amateur radio as one of their hobbies including Sluggo, Georger, Snowmann, Guru, 377, and others I am sure. What is the connection Kenneth? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No prob Sluggo. Occam wins again. What was more likely, conspiratorial crew lies or the presence of a cabin climb rate indicator? You posted the correction just in time before I put my foot too far down my mouth. Maybe I should lighten up on the money find suspicions too, but I just keep asking myself about the odds of finding that cash... 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Hmmmm. just as I thought Sluggo. Thanks so much for digging. I have a Continental 727 manual that shows no cabin climb rate instrument, but I didn't know if the NWA 727s were similarly configured. NOT ONE of those 727-51 instruments would wildly fluctuate when flying unpressurized, even with a door rebound. That part of the story always struck me as untrue. Your ears would be a far more noticeable indicator of rapid pressure changes than any of those non rate sensitive barometric instruments. So why was it told that way? Journalist embellishment or did a cockpit crew member actually report it that way? Since the info is tied to Cooper's alleged exit point, it is important. Let's use this Jerry Springer intermission to explore some of these inconsistencies around the exit estimate. If it weren't for that darned money find we could have Cooper exiting far past the generally accepted area. Mr. Occam won't let me classify the money as a plant, but I have always smelled a rat in the particulars of the kid's choice of where to dig or smooth out the sand for a fire at Tena Bar. I suspect subtle parental coaching. If only Snowmman would use this brief break in the noise level to opine here. I'd also love to hear from Safe. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, You are teasing again. What is it that you are referring to above? Whenever you claim something was "hushed up" my skepticism alarm goes off. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

We interrupt the Jerry Springer show to bring you some Cooper related posts. Sluggo, do you know if the NWA 727 had a cabin rate of climb indicator or just a cabin differential pressure/altitude instrument? The rate instrument would fluctuate wildly with minor but abrupt changes in cabin pressure but the other would not. Here is an example of a typical jet passenger airliner cabin altimeter/differential pressure instrument. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kollsman-Aircraft-Altimeter-Cabin-Indicator-B3668910021_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1171Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem35a1eb74fbQQitemZ230349829371QQptZMotorsQ5fAviationQ5fPartsQ5fGear Here is a cabin rate of climb instrument: http://starfleetsupport.com/images/Pages/Avionics2/IMG_2376L_Cabin_Climb.jpg 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger, Don't you think LE has far more important matters to attend to than your perceived threat from Jo? You are free to interpret her words any way you wish but I see nothing in them that seriously threatens any physical danger for you or your family. Since we have veered deep into Jerry Springer territory, I will try to change course and steer us back towards Cooper land. This post is interesting in that it shows that people involved in dropping stuff from planes (C 130 Hercs in this case) fooled around with intentional jumps just to see how to cope if they fell out during air drops. "We started sport jumping just in case we fell out of the C-130 during equipment drop wearing one of these rigs. " http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3596871#3596871 I have a hunch, but no proof, that word spread fast in SE Asia among jumpers and kickers about the 727 test jumps. I still believe that Cooper HAD to know that he could jump from a 727 and that he only could have known that if he were privvy to Boeing flight test data or knew about the Air America 727 jumps in Thailand. I wrote to Don Kirlin, the WFFC owner and man who got FAA approval for skydives from the 727. I was trying to find out what Boeing data he used to prove to the FAA that the 727 could safely fly with an open ventral door and drop jumpers. I did read that he used data from Boeing to make his cse. He did not respond. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nope. Never represented Jo. Wouldn't want to. I couldn't give her such a hard time if she were my client. I REALLY don't think Jo has a money angle here. If she does I sure haven't seen it. I think she is sincere in her beliefs and isn't seeking fame and fortune, just closure. I don't think Duane was Cooper. Jo does. We simply disagree respectfully. What is so damned hard about that? Airtwardo and I think exactly alike on big brother monitoring this forum. Highly unlikely, but bring it on. Who cares? Attention: C4, dirty bomb, isotope, water supply, diesel, nitrates, ammonium, aerosol pathogens, are ya listening or word matching out there NSA CIA FBI DHS? Just testing your system and my first amendment rights. As you were men. Carry on. As for all this copyright nonsense, ignore it if you don't like it. Do you really think Jo would go to federal court and sue over you quoting her posts? I doubt that very much. Look up the "fair use doctrine" in copyright law. This forum is pretty anarchistic. Don't get all hung up on intellectual property laws cause this here forum is the wild west pardner. Yee haw. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

What Airtwardo said (and he said it so well). I give Jo a hard time but never venom or disrespect. She is stubborn as hell but I never doubt her sincerity. Greetings live from the Sierra Nevada World Music Festival in Boonville California. Three days of the best Reggae music on the planet. The Itals just finished. The vocalist trio ages add up to at least 180 and they concede nothing to the more youthful performers. Incredible roots music. Michael Rose headlines tonight. What a shame Lucky Dube can't be here. This South African Reggae superstar was killed in SA right in front of his kids by thugs who wanted his car. No demo jumps. Too windy. Even the bold Airtwardo would take a rain check. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, You don't need to exit the forum. Just ignore accusations. I don't think you are a liar. What I do not understand is what makes you sure Duane was Cooper. Forget about movies, novels, Max, Clara ... forget all the extraneous stuff. Forget about stuff that COULD be consistent with a well informed wannabe. Show me ONE UNAMBIGUOUS piece of evidence that proves Duane was Cooper. If you have it, show it. If you don't have it then you are basing your certainty on speculation. That's OK, but you need to see the difference between proof and speculation. They are not the same thing. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK Jo, another big claim: a creek that doesn't show on any map. It would literally amaze me if that statement were proven true. With radar topo mapping satellites giving precise elevations of every square foot of the US how was this creek missed? You have made your claim. Now give your proof. Google Earth should show it clearly, unless they too are part of the conspiracy. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Occam speaking: Jo, which is more likely? 1. Jerry and many others conspired to keep you from finding the location you correctly described? 2. Your description was so imprecise/vague/changing that nobody could have known you were looking for the lake? I really hope you haven't spent a lot of money having "your guys" proving that Jerry lied to you about some geography. Even if he did, that does ZERO to link Duane to Cooper. Your posts are full of conspiracy overtones. You hint that the FBI and Jerry don't want the truth known about Cooper. You imply that everyone except Udell tried to keep you from finding what you sought. I find that so illogical and so does just about everyone else. You don't. No amount of facts, logic or reasoning budges you on this point. I am glad that you got some good health news but sad that your obsession appears to be impenetrable by reasoned logic. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Glad to hear that Jo. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The reserve Cooper opened and cut some lines off of had pink lines and a pink canopy indicating a dye job. Can you dye an FAA approved reserve and still have it be FAA legal? Why would anyone dye a white reserve pink? I'd worry that the dye would weaken the fabric... and that pink would hugely lower the resale value. One guy at my old DZ tie dyed a surplus main canopy. It was a sixties thing. He later blew some upper panels out on opening. He had used RITZ fabric dye and theorized that it caused the blowouts. Riggers? Your thoughts? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK Jo, so what was the "OUT and OUT LIE" and who told it? If you dont wish to ID the liar at least tell us what the lie was. Otherwise it's just another Jo tease. "Your guys"??? Who are they and what have you tasked them with? At least tell us their qualifications and assigned mission if you don't wish to ID them personally. What do they expect to learn from this new person they have found? Time and time again you promise to deliver blockbuster evidence, but so far the promises are just teases. Time to DELIVER Jo, starting right now. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I previously posted the map attached. This surface map is but one of 4-6 maps NOAA issued on 11-24-71, which show a cold front moving into the "Pre Cascade Turbulence Corridor". (not my terms) (I am also informed that our friend Solderlind was in fact an expert on aviation wind sheer and published a number of papers, some of which are still available). I learned a lot today. This is getting very interesting Georger and thanks for reviving the topic and adding new material. I have always wondered if Cooper jumped much later than the pressure bump and there is a chance he did. Still, we have to deal with the money find which argues that the bump was coincident with his exit. I used to read these weather maps on our fishing boats. We received them from the USCG over HF freqs. We used special radio fax machines to print them as they were being transmitted. Some of the early machines used a sparking stylus to burn the fax image onto special paper on a rotating drum. Later, thermal printers became the norm. Now the weather faxes can be decoded by a computer sound card and stored as images for later viewing. The ones we received were sent from USCG radio station NMC at Pt Reyes CA. It was always a thrill to receive a fax from thousands of miles away. Once in a while a USCG radioman would write a handwritten greeting on the fax like "Happy Thanksgiving from NMC." I see nasty weather depicted on your map Georger, but I don't know much about land weather where you get much more wind-surface/terrain interaction than you do at sea. At sea you were really looking for scrunched together isobars (high pressure gradients) and other indicators of high winds. Turbulence, wind shear and vertical winds weren't much of a worry to a boat. We also looked for approaching low pressure fronts. What do the pilots say about what Georger's weather map shows? Orange, who were you rooting for in the Cricket matches once your home team was out of the running? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I see your point and really shouldn't rain on Dad's parade, but his evil spawn just pisses me off so much it is hard to act polite. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Check this out. The guy ejected in a violent storm at 47,000 ft. I'd guess his auto opener fired at about 10,000 ft. He spent over half an hour under a canopy very similar to Cooper's. from Wikipedia: In the summer of 1959, William Rankin was flying from South Weymouth Naval Air Station, Massachusetts to Beaufort, North Carolina. He was climbing over a thunderhead that peaked at 45,000 ft (13.7 km), when—at 47,000 ft (14.3 km) and at mach 0.82—he heard a loud bump and rumble from the engine. The rpm fell to zero, and the fire warning light flashed.[1] He pulled a lever to deploy auxiliary power, but the lever broke off in his hands. Although the temperature outside was −50°C and he was not wearing a pressure suit, he was forced to eject. At 6:00 pm, he ejected.[1] He suffered immediate frostbite, and decompression caused his eyes, ears, nose, and mouth to start bleeding. His abdomen swelled as if he were pregnant. Pain seared his body, though numbed by the cold. He managed to use his emergency oxygen supply.[1] Five minutes after he left the plane, his parachute still hadn't opened. Finally, still in the upper regions of the thunderstorm, with near-zero visibility, the parachute opened. After ten minutes, when he normally would have already landed, Rankin was still in the air, being carried upward by updrafts and getting hit by hailstones. Violent spinning and pounding caused him to vomit. Lightning appeared, which he described as blue blades several feet thick, and thunder, which was so close he could feel as well as hear it. The rain forced him to hold his breath to keep from drowning. One lightning bolt lit up the parachute, making Rankin believe he had died.[1] Soon, however, conditions calmed, and he descended into a forest. His watch read 6:40 pm. He searched for help and eventually was admitted into a hospital at Ahoskie, North Carolina.[1] He suffered from frostbite welts, bruises, and severe decompression. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It have a Cricket in my garden and he makes a lot of noise at night. Ckret, on the other hand, remains silent. BTW, the Indian engineers where I work are PISSED! They take Cricket very seriously and WI has ruined everything. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Agree Georger. Good point and well worth further inquiry. It raises the possibility that the Cooper exit was nowhere near where most assumed it was. Still, we have that darned Ingram money find which ropes us back into the general area where Jerry is searching. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Great idea Jerry. I wonder if Sluggo could make us a graphic for a road sign? YOU ARE NOW ENTERING DB COOPER COUNTRY 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Yes, several things besides Cooper's exit could have caused the stairs to swing up. A sudden drop by the aircraft or an upward gust pentrated by the aircraft could do it. Either could happen in turbulent conditions. I have stood on the tailgates of Skyvans, CASA 212s and a C 130A. They extend out from the fuselage but not down. You can feel upward deflection being limited by the downlocks if you stand on them during turbulence. If not for the locks they would slam up for sure. In the CASA and Herc the gates are lowered with a powered mechanism, but in the Skyvan you push it down manually. As you push it down in turbulent conditions you can often feel it push back wanting to slam upwards. You are right Georger, either there was turbulence or there wasn't. In that kind of unstable weather I'd sure bet on a yes. If you add Bohan's report it seems pretty likely that the NWA plane was not having a smooth flight that night in the presumed jump area. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Agree with everything you posted. I wish 41 would talk his friend 42 into making a jump. Wouldn't that be cool? 43 is a national disgrace. He gave Obama the wheel after he ran the ship of state into the iceberg. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

hmmm... I wonder if the pressure bump might have not been from Cooper's exit but from turbulence? I have always wondered if you could do sort of a flying leap exit out the door rather than walking down the stairs? Walking down the stairs would create a big deflection as you descended that would result in a big rebound when you jumped. A flying leap might not do much to the stairs if it was made from high up near the pivot point. I think the sled test proved that a jump off the bottom of the stairs would create a pressure bump, but it doesnt prove that Cooper jumped form the bottom of the stairs. I am trying to think what a skydiver would do? Leap close to the top or walk down to the bottom and step off? On my DC 9 jet jump I lept. I didnt walk down the ramp, but the ramp was within the fuselage and didnt extend outside like the 727 stairs did. Orange, what would you have done? Twardo? Any jumper? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Since Mayfield and Ralph H knew each other, Mayfield would know that he would be the first person who Ralph would suspect after the hijack news got out. He would definitely want to minimize H's suspicion. I still think it would be very hard for Cooper to arrange making a phone call within 1.5 hours of the jump, but not impossible. Could someone else have made the call? Probably not. if he were going to use a stand in he'd likely have arrnaged to have the call made during the flight and before the exit, if there was a way to time it. There may not have been enough real time info on the news to pull it off. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You are referring to a cabin rate of climb type gauge which would indeed go crazy over a small but very sudden change in pressure. Many but not all jets have these. Are you 100% sure that this model 727 had one? Some pax jets just had cabin altimeters and/or cabin differential pressure gauges which sensed the absolute (not time based) difference between outside and inside pressure. Neither were rate indicators. It is amazingly simple to convert an altimeter into an altitude rate instrument. Just punch a tiny hole in the sealed aneroid chamber. In real rate of climb (or descent, they usually indicate either) an adjustable valve is used for fine calibration. No matter what the gauge was, it was on the FE panel and I doubt if Scott was turned around backwards monitoring it during emergency IFR flying. He needed to be paying close attention to his own panel. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.