377

The FBI was quite interested in Duane for a while. He wasn't casually dismissed, he was ruled out on DNA, as was Sheridan Peterson. Was that sloppy forensic investigation? Perhaps it was, but it's wrong to imply that the FBI paid no attention. The FBI is certain that they have a partial sample of Cooper's DNA. It seems to be a possibly unjustified level of confidence about the source, but they might be withholding info that would explain it. They aren't complete idiots. They do want to solve the case. What if the sample really came from the bourbon glass and not the tie? What if the tie story is fake and designed to make Cooper willing to give a sample. If he didn't leave a tie he'd be happy to give a swab sample and be ruled out. The Amboy chute news picture recently posted shows a lot of fabric degradation. Earlier statements about it's near pristine condition are obviously incorrect. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

That's a sweet thought Orange. Occam would agree. Jo's persistent suspicion that Georger is an FBI or CIA agent or affiliate tells me that she jumps to exotic conclusions about ordinary people, including Duane Weber. G isn't FBI and Duane wasn't DBC. Of course how do we prove a negative? We can't. That inability just fuels Jo's conviction that her assumptions are true. Sigh... 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung, you need to get out more. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I have some "eco socks" that claim to be made from bamboo fiber Farflung. Do I gert some Green points? Orange's slogan about skydiving (wasting fossil fuels just for fun) captures the general drift of the sport. I don't think there will be a big demand for bamboo parachutes, but I've been wrong before. There is now serious attention being paid to harversting the power of the jetstream to generate electrical power. Kites, balloons etc are being proposed as lifting vehicles for the stratosphere turbines. Who will be the first BASE jumper to climb a turbine tether to 20,000 ft for a free jump? Don't laugh, if it's there and climbable, it will be jumped. Blevins, can you show me where the FBI claimed the Amboy chute might have been used by a military pilot in 1945? That's literally impossible as the canopy was manufactured in 1946. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

YIKES!!!! I never once experienced this in well over 100 jumps with reserves of that type. When I had to do a cutaway of a C9 main my belly reserve (26 ft Navy conical in an Army container) worked just fine. My D ring connectors had a very robust spring loaded clip. Hard to see how it would become disconnected accidentally, but I know you had it happen. If they were so unsafe why did the Army keep using them for decades? Usually if parachute gear was found to be unreliable, newer improved gear replaced it. Witness the evolution of Rocket Jet types to better and better canopy releases culminating in the latest Capewell types. The military doesn't seem complacent about parachute gear safety. They move slowly but they do move. Riggers, your opinion? I am not an expert on attachment hardware. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I made lots of jumps with surplus belly reserves and wasn't aware of this potentially fatal problem. Which reserve fastener came loose and how? Lots of jumpers would unhook one of the chest fasteners and droop the reserve to get a better view of the target. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I guess I was mistaken. I had an NB6 with military Capewells but it must have been modified. Anyway it would still be useful to see a photo of the riser end hardware on the Amboy chute. It might tell us if it had been in an NB6. Airtwardo, what are your thoughts about the Amboy chute? Would Cossey use a 1946 twill canopy in a bailout rig in 1971? I don't think so but I'd value your opinion. I had ejector snaps on all my 60s and 70s leg straps. I liked them. They weren't dangerous in my opinion. I wouldn't want to do a water jump without them. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I reviewed the photo of the mfr data panel. 1946, clear as can be. If anyone jumped that chute in 1945 they deserved a Nobel Prize in physics. NB6 and NB8 rigs have Capewell fittings for riser attachment. If the FBI would post a photo of the metal fittings on the ends of the Amboy chute risers we might be able to rule out the chute as having been in Cosseys bailout rig. If it doesn't have Capewell hardware it isn't the canopy that was in the bailout rig. The Navy bailout rigs had Capwells so that pilots could cut away the canopy after landing and avoid being dragged by winds. I don't think it's Cooper's chute based on age. Nobody with any sense would bet their life on a non ripstop 1946 canopy in the 70s when brand new ripstop C9s could be bought for prices well under $100. I saw a bunch of them for as little as $25 in the 70s. Swapping Capewell equipped canopies in a rig during repack is dirt simple and takes less than a minute. Did the FBI actually claim that this 1946 chute might have been jumped in 1945? Show me. Still, we don't have a credible explanation for how the Amboy chute ended up where it did. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, A short time ago you promised to make a major revelation that would be a blockbuster. I haven't seen it. Promises promises. Harold Camping comes to mind. I do hope your recovery is going well and that's sincere. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote: Don't assume that the FBI is telling the whole story about what evidence was found and what was preserved. In my experience they often did not disclose the whole physical evidence story to the public if the suspect was still at large. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

That DC 3 is tempting. It even has working deicing boots which is rare. Engine times look good too. As far as being a chick magnet, the steeply sloping floor of the 3 means that unless your date is a jumper (acclimated to unusual attitudes), she'll probably insist that you rent a room, which immediately kills the appeal to jumpers who sleep in their cars and on hanger floors to save enough to jump. Bill Dause, once a DBC suspect, now has the tail of his now derelict DC 3 elevated on a big stack of railroad ties, which tells you something. I absolutely love DC 3s. There is one that really stands out in performance, the Southern Cross. It has Wright 1820-86 engines as I recall and MAN can she climb. First time I rode on her I was taking my usual snooze expecting a 40 minute ride to 14,000 ft when I was quickly shaken by another jumper who said we were on jump run. Impossible, I thought, not nearly enough time had elapsed but there we were. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

By coincidence I am at SFO waiting for a plane to Chicago. Too bad I missed you Vicki. It would have been fun to get some coffee and compare notes. Have a great time in SF. It's a beautiful city. A ferryboat ride to Sausalito is recommended. Cheaper than the tourist cruise boats and you can take a walk around Sausalito too. They depart from the Ferry Bldg near the foot of Market St. Muir Woods is also recommended if you've never seen a Redwood Forest. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Didn't the data panel on the canopy show a 1946 mfr date? If so that chute couldnt have been the one used in 1945. It has an airtight alibi. Why would the FBI lie about the Amboy chute? They want to solve Norjack. I also wonder if the FBI DNA is from a Bourbon glass or cig butt and not the tie. If it's from the tie I don't see how they can be so sure it's Coopers. I've defended criminals in cases where the FBI was the investigating agency. Sometimes what they tell the news media about evidence and what they actually have are substantially different. They sometimes have a LOT more than they reveal publically. It comes out in the pretrial discovery process, but not before. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nearly two years before the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Egypt Air Flight 990 took off from Kennedy Airport bound for Cairo and inexplicably crashed into the Atlantic off Nantucket, Mass., killing all 217 aboard. U.S. investigators determined the relief co-pilot, Gamil el-Batouty, deliberately crashed the plane. Those findings were released just five months before Sept. 11. Batouty's last words, according to investigators, were in the form of Muslim prayer in Arabic: "I rely on Allah." He said it 11 times before the aircraft began its sudden descent from 33,000 feet to 16,000 feet. The auto-pilot was switched off before the steep dive and both engines were shut off. Mechanical failure was ruled out. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Sailshaw isn't Bob Knoss. He is a retired engineer who worked for Boeing. He is also a licensed amateur radio operator as is Snowmman, Georger, Sluggo, Guru, myself and perhaps others who post here. Odd isn't it? What has become of Bob Knoss? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I like pretty planes and only its mother could think that the A 380 is attractive.... so I'll vote for the sleeker BoeDoug dream machine. When I was a kid there were lots of pretty planes flying over my schoolyard on the way to SFO. Super Connies were gorgeous. Slick and TWA flew a lot of them. You'd still see a few DC 3s too which have their own form of timeless beauty. The Boeing 377 wasn't pretty, but it was manly. Your kind of plane Farflung. The nursing tanker mission that the USAF C 97 had to perform may give a contrary impression, but a real civil B 377 (without a USAF fuel tit) the Stratocruiser was a good looking plane when viewed in a masculine context. So true about those skymalls and aerial gyms shown in jumbo mockups. How long did the piano bar or the deli last in the 747s? Just long enough to appear in a soon to be misleading ad is my recollection. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Have you forgotten the Convair 990 Farflung? It was a roughly 707 size airliner that flew like a fighter. Smokey, compromised range, but pretty fast and handled great according to those who flew them. NASA flew one out of Moffett Field CA long after they had been retired from major airline service. It belched huge plumes of black smoke on high power settings used for TO. Spantax, a second tier carrier in Spain kept a fleet of them flying for charters for a long time. They contracted with a Prof at Cornell to figure out how to reduce the smoke and it was a success. An academic figured out a simple combustor section mod that eluded GE, the engine mfr. In their last years the 990s were nearly smokeless. http://www.google.com/search?q=cponvair+990&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&pq=cponvair%20990&xhr=t&q=convair+990&cp=1&qe=Y29udmFpciA5OTA&qesig=X-uxM4NKfBk_mig4uSMBLg&pkc=AFgZ2tni313ZJ_wu1RAVDvF7sDNbxyNP7nqV6kp77byqQ-sgP7yKEiKyj1Tpx8w3nUM-RCCnYhjCtm4eQGHet6xFrQL6UzxIkA&pf=p&sclient=psy&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=convair+990&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=3ab7b119eb13be61&biw=1380&bih=809&bs=1 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The FBI isn't in the business of proving innocence. If Duane wasn't wrongfully charged or convicted then the law enforcement machine couldn't care less about his innocence. That's just the nature of the beast Jo. You weren't singled out for bad treatment. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote: RFK, right? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Wonder what would happen if we.... http://fromtheflightdeck.com/Reviews/727/TWA727/ Good thing this was a separate 727 incident and didnt involve slat extension hacking: Prison for 3 Northwest Pilots Who Flew 727 Jet While Drunk AP Published: October 27, 1990 Three former Northwest Airlines pilots who flew a passenger jet while intoxicated were sentenced to prison today, two for a year and the other for 16 months. Federal District Judge James Rosenbaum also imposed three years' probation on each, telling them, "Gentlemen, you are good men who have done a bad thing." The sentences were within Federal guidelines, which recommended 12 to 18 months; the maximum would have been 15 years. Under Federal law, no parole is possible for sentences of a year or less; the 16-month sentence carries a possibility of less than two weeks' parole. Judge Rosenbaum left open the possibility that the three could remain free pending their appeals. Flying With 91 Passengers The three were convicted of being intoxicated while flying a Boeing 727 with 91 passengers from Fargo, N.D., to Minneapolis the morning of March 8. They are Norman Lyle Prouse, 51 years old, of Conyers, Ga., the captain; Robert Kirchner, 36, of Highland Ranch, Colo., the first officer, and Joseph Balzer, 35, of Antioch, Tenn., the flight engineer. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/media/news/20110523_001.pdf 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Maybe... We really don't know whether Cooper knew a 727 could be jumped. The evidence doesn't really tell us. Logic says he knew, but that doesn't prove he did. People aren't always logical. My only point is that knowing someone who worked at or with Boeing or having worked a plane cleaner who used the stairsxon the ground doesn't necessarily equate to having knowledge about whether the 727 could be jumped. Might someone at NWA have known? Sure, but it wasn't widely known and it isn't documented in the 727 aircraft manuals that I have read. Most flight engineers and some pilots like to know all about their plane's systems and even possible hacks. They have killed people fooling around with such hacks as trying gust locks in flight, pulling circuit breakers to disable warning horns, deploying leading edge slats at high speeds, exceeding altitude limits, rolling airliners with no passengers, etc. The jumpability of a 727 wasn't top secret, but it's fair to say that it was not widely known in 1971. Jo's frustration with the FBI for refusing to investigate a myriad of highly speculative and tenuous leads about Duane and his cohorts is misplaced. The burden is on her to offer some EVIDENCE that unambiguously ties Duane to Norjack. If she could do this then the FBI would take a renewed interest. Without that she is asking the FBI to investigate her hunches and beliefs. Put Duane in the plane or even in a chute Jo. So far, despite numerous teases, you've not been able to do that. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

An Army based Boeing liason and a paint supplier to Boeing don't impress me as people who would be privy to flight test data regarding in flight 727 stair deployment. Flight Engineers learn a LOT about an airliner's systems and their operational limits. They were not trained about 727 in flight stair deployment. Their extensive systems manuals made no mention of that subject and shed no light on the possibility of flying with the stairs down. Nobody at NWA maintenance or flight ops knew. They had to call Boeing. What makes you think an Army Boeing liaison and a paint supplier to Boeing would know more about 727 in flght stair deployment than a qualified 727 FE and the entire NWA maintenance organization? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

http://tabacco.blog-city.com/cia_operation_mongoose__the_plot_to_assassinate_fidel_castro.htm Jo, What does Mongoose have to do with Norjack? What proof do you have that Duane was involved? Without that info all you are doing is is teasing or speculating. Anybody can post a list of covert CIA or Army ops. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The Army connection suggests helicopters rather than large jet transports Jo. The biggest plane in Army's fixed wing fleet was probably a piston engined DH Caribou and posiibly one DHC 8 turboprop. I am not sure, but I don't think they had 727s ever. Boeing did make large helicopters for the Army such as the CH 47. http://www.aircav.com/histavn.html http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/39086/ 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.