EBSB52

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050625/ap_on_go_co/congress_spending&printer=1;_ylt=AhuPjKrxCyyh46Bom_hBXeuMwfIE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE- Huge cuts to jobs programs: Billions for the useless war....

SkydivingNurse I know another Murse who shtdives! BTW, not a real good thing to write on a public forum.....

Uh... really? Because I have smoked one before? I think they are a disgusting habit alhtough I have been know to bum one while I was drinking before. My wife smoked before she was pregnant and it drove me fucking nuts. I would hardly call myself a smoker. They make me sick unless I am drunk. Still second hand smoke has never bothered me although those that I know that smoke in their house have air purifiers and such. My Wife's side of the family smokes heavily. Malboro Red and her Grandpa has smoked Camel straights sense he was 12. They never smoke in the house though. Most people don't that I know. Again, read the above post. I feel for ya man. It is a mother fucker to quit, so I hear. I have some people at work I really respect and they're almost in tears cause they can't quit. WTF. That doesn't mean we should push it off on others who choose not to smoke. Just like the thread about the lady who got killed by a street racer - you don't have the right to push off your or mt problems. habits, events, compulsions on others.

I live w/a GF who smokes, so I understand the addiction that leads to bizzare rationalizations. I just kicked caffeine in January, so I understand maybe 10% of what a bitch it is to have that kind of addiction. I think virtualy all smokers want to quit and I feel for ya, but to compare mass transit or private transit in connection with jobs, groceries, etc is really reaching. Smoking is a useless compulsion/activity/habit, etc... Driving a car to work to keep the aircraft flying is useful and the world would come to a halt o everyone quit doing it. I can, we all can pollute the air in the effort to get to work; we shouldn't pollute other people's personal space with carcinogens so we can perpetuate our compulsions.

1 - The Fed govt takes away your taxes and then only gives them back to the states that mind them. "Do what we say or you lose all your Fed education dollars..." The Fed govt taxes us into poverty and then controls us with our own money. If we only allowed the Fed govt to support the army and road building, they'd need a lot less and couldn't threaten/control. Right, mind them to do what? LOwer speed limits, raise drinking ages, mandate seat belts.... all corporate agendas.... Fascism. 2 - Most activist groups of any kind just ask for a SC ruling. It overrides the state court and make the state court and legislatures into impotent fixtures. And the US Sup Ct hear 150 cases/yr, so what are the odds of having it heard? People laugh a little less each time as their rights slowly erode. Please. This smoker's right nonsense grows deeper all the time. The right to counsel at criminal trial is guaranteed under the 6th as I recall. The protection from unreasonable searcha nd seizure is stated under the 4th. Cigs have no rights or protections - there is no errosion with that. That's like saying the right to drive and speed is be erroded, and that's something I like doing.

Not exactly. If the gov took the property for their own gain, it would be PRC. But the gov takes the property for the benefit of corps, hence Fascism. See, varrying degrees/type of Naziism have to disected to understand what their intent is and who it benefits. This clearly benefits corps over gov.

I shoot my gun, but never in the house or in the car. I just step outside and shoot it up in the air.

And your point is? Or do you just like to point out the obvious. common sense tells us that it is much more dangerous to smoke that to just breath second hand smoke. I have never got a buzz from second hand smoke. I get a buzz everytime I actually smoke. Second hand smoke is the least of most kids worries. Kids ski, race MX, freestyle, skateboard, spend time in the sun, and you are worried about second hand smoke. If you are that worried about it don't let your kids around people that smoke. That's common sense. Don't tell me how to raise my kids though Is that the new silly argument from the smoking sector? The sun is harmful? 1. An individual chooses to be exposed or notto the sun. 2. Sunblock can be worn and that issue is moot. 3. People don't choose to be exposed to second hand smoke all the time, and those that don't should be allowed not tobe exposed, kids or adults. I have never got a buzz from second hand smoke. You're a smoker. Second hand smoke is the least of most kids Are you taking about the kids at never;and ranch? If you are that worried about it don't let your kids around people that smoke. As a parent you have a special relationship contract to look out for them, so what if a smoker chooses to smoke in the proximity of their kids, who's there to keep the kids from a smoking environment? That's common sense. Don't tell me how to raise my kids though If you smoke in confined spaces with them, I hope Child Protective Svs tells you how to raise them.

When you smoke a butt head you "normally" have a filter. The smoke coming off of the end of that butthead is not filtered.. I have a grip. Why don't you get some common sense. Rhino This is ridiculous, who cares, it's fucking arsenic poison in whatever doses - it shouldbe outllawed but in private w/o kids.

For once, we agree on something. It is friken criminal.... why won't the gov disallow cig companies to illegalize it altogether? Why, in the recent product liability suit did the gov allow them to keep making a dangerous product? Fascism....

If you are a give it away liberal the quality does not matter as long as its free. Even if it is almost impossible to get and does no good. Arguing with you is like arguing with my dog. He does not understand logic either. Try to understand this very simple concept....Giving it away will mean it is not as good (quality) while it will have lots of people trying to get it (Quantity)...Most of those that are trying to get it will not be able to since everyone is trying. I go to VA hospitals....So I know something about this process and how it works....And from my experience it is MUCH better than what others have said. And lets never forget you would rather drag everyone down to try and make everyone happy...Which makes no one happy. I'd rather the people who work hard have a chance at a good life while the lazy don't get shit. Arguing with you is like arguing with my dog You do that a lot? He does not understand logic either. And you've bought him all those books. Uh, what we have here is a case of Son OF Sam.... hope i don't live in your town . If he starts teling to do things, don't listen. Try to understand this very simple concept....Giving it away will mean it is not as good (quality) while it will have lots of people trying to get it (Quantity)...Most of those that are trying to get it will not be able to since everyone is trying. Oh Ron, it is purely laughable to have an 8th grade education condescend me.... you know I'm right. Giving it away? Even in Socialism, there is no gift - taxpayers pay for it. WHat you're saying is that if we exclude some people then resources are here for those "good" people to have better care. So what you're saying is to let the AIDS patients hurry up and die, that is unless they have money. Most of those that are trying to get it will not be able to since everyone is trying. Right, exclusion. And lets never forget you would rather drag everyone down to try and make everyone happy Damned freeloaders wanting medical care for their families. What's next, food? I'd rather the people who work hard have a chance at a good life while the lazy don't get shit. There you've made a silly assumotion. 750k people of the 1.5 million that filed for bankruptcy last year filed due to medical bills..... 75% of those had medical insurance. See, these issues are too deep for you to understand. The oxymoron that our moron chimp in chief coined was, "compassionate Conservative." You, Ron, exemplify a Bushian compassionate conservative.

I really hate to break this to you, but your not up on your world history. The attack on Pearl Harbor was in the year of our lord 1941, not 1942. Proverbial "slip" or just uninformed? Consider yourself "All Knowed Up Now" OK, you win the semantic contest. I just pulled that out w/o caring to be exact. The point is, that you so carefull to distract the issue with nothingness that you steer from the real issue. You said that it would have been the same to burn your own flag as compared to someone damaging or descrating, or something to that effect, the USS Arizona. I state that it had been done, error in year (BFD). WHat say you? Also, the same for pissing on someone elses chute? Remember the real argument? I don't expect an answer. You correlate destroying something of your own as it would be destroying someone elses property, or in this example, governement property. Egads... Now leave me alone for a couple hours, I've been collecting flags for a while and it's time for a torchin'

Wrong emotional people vote for people that represent their beliefs. Intelligent people vote for who they think is the better canidate without using emotion as a factor. I already told you why I voted for Bush....Kerry was the only real other choice and I didn't trust him for a second. I found him to be a liar, and a power hungry blue blood who wanted to be just like Kennedy. His voting record was full of acting voting one way, but he never claimed it later. He clearly voted FOR the war, but later claimed he was against it from the start....did he think we had the memory of a goldfish? That and his questionable military record, his claiming to be a war hero while bashing the service ect.... AIDS was never an issue for me. I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. My ideal choice was niether Bush or Kerry....But that was the choice I had. And why is it you think Bush was a better candidate? Giove examples of what he might do versus what Kerry might have done. You won't giove any. AIDS was never an issue for me. So AIDS and medical care for ill people wasn't even a consideration, huh? Inaction is still a reaction. So you failed to consider an important aspect of politics and therefore are cleansed? I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. So here is your answer, let all the ill people die instead of raising taxes to pay for care? So you have affirmed my original contention.

What I understand is you opened your mouth, spouted some really stupid stuff, and once proven wrong make some lame attempt at covering your ass... Come on, admit you are wrong for at least once...You are. Wow, a 2-liner..... adress the substance if you're able. it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. Again, it's our interpetation of the whole Jebus garbage that might or might not have an impact as to why we go to war - that is the argument. Who cares what the Israelis think, the Muslims, etc.... We don't act off their ideolgy.

Wrong, there is: Quality Availability They are both seperate. The US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. The ability to get it is one of QUANTITY, not QUALITY. Wrong, there is: Quality Availability They are both seperate. There is a correlation, but 1 aspect of medicine is availablity, then if you're a Fascist American, you dole it out to whomever deserves it. Then after that the quality issue becomes relevant. Quality doesn't matter for the poor, because it's moot. The US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Right, fewer peopleget better care - that's my argument. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. There's my correlation - cost and availability - you said they were seperate...... Arguing with you is easy and fun

I wasn't going to, but now I think I will just because of you

(emphasis added by me.) There is no way to read that other than what was said: his health is in shambles because of the AIDS virus. No interpretation needed at all. And then, in response to Astro in post #29, Freethefly said: And then ESBS52 said in post #34 ESBS52, your comment was incredibly insensitive and crude. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. Your subsequent "apology" was more of an excuse for your comment than an apology as well as a justification for making it, than an apology in the most "technical" sense of the word. And then, your professed "explanation" about how he never said he has AIDs was proclaimed over and over, and that you misread the comment is blatantly false. One would sincerely hope you read things a tad more carefully in the future, and remember also that there are people reading this who have AIDs and don't post; your comment shows true colors, in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. On to the topic at hand... Flag burning is abhorrent to me. Preventing someone from expressing themselves - and perhaps suffering the consequences of such expression - is far more abhorrent on a much larger level to me. It is symbolic of all I hold dear, and it hurts to see someone disrespect that. But in the end, it is only a symbol, easily replaced. The erosion of such expression is not so easily replaced. No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, as that respect is held in my heart and mind. They can only touch (or torch) the symbol of it; and that symbol doesn't matter. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. For those who rant that all Republicans will back Bush on this, blanket statements are detrimental and injurious. Same with those who make blanket statements about Democrats. Doing so denies the complexity of someone's affiliation, and prevents anyone from really considering the other side of the argument and independently coming to their own conclusions. To do so, then, denies one an opportunity to learn from another about why they believe a certain way about a certain topic. Ciels- Michele I didn't read post #27, I was just skimmimng thru. I saw what looked like a statement in #29 about fear of AIDS in a general context about disease. I was unaware by reading that that the author actually had AIDS or HIV. Since then I publicly rectified it, but you are here to do as you did in the closed thread and just wait for any chance to jump at me. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. I'm guilty of that and I immediatley rectified it. So you can stand down now and quit drawing attention to it - do you think Freethefly feels good about you using this for fodder against me? Who's insensitive now? You could have PM'd me, but you want public capitla for this at the potential cost to the person you claim to be defending. You have contempt for me - likewise - take it to pm or otherwise drop it. in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. Yes, we should suppress things likethis and the truth in general. In your conservative world we just shelve things and refuse to talk about them, which is why we can ignore them. The reason I inserted that was that freetehfly said he didn't want to hear about anything from me unless I was qualified. Am I qualified? Not really. But I established my knowledge of people with AIDS. I did live through some of the emotional aspects of it. John died right before Majic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV. The entire world was up in arms and worried that a celebrity was going to die of AIDS eventually. My GF's family was major pissed, well, you see this classist country allows for MJ to get meds and stay well, but not the poor people who are called all kinds of names, but refused meds and care. I hatethe same thing freethefly does - this classist pos country won't care for ill people unless they have money or are a celeb. Shall we talk about Mickey Mantle the drunk who gets a liver in momenst after being diagnosed with needing one? How about Alonzo Mourning? No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, Slavery, masacre of American Indians, ethnocentricity, classism, racism, anhilation, Imperialism, Fascism ... and all behind the giuse of Democracy. Get me a tissue. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. And that's what matters - what you think. How about what the Muslims think? Oh that's right, that matters not.

What would YOU do if someone pissed on your canopy? For what so many in the past have willingly fought and died for everyone sure is in a hurry to desecrate it. Hell why don't you just go and desecrate the battle ship Arizona in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii? Now, i'd like to see that! What would YOU do if someone pissed on your canopy? WOW, no offense here, but this is a horrible argument. The issue is not about people going aound and burning the flags of others, but it's about the burning of a persons own property, their own flag. So if you pissed on your own chute, I couldn't care less. That is the correct way to draw that anaolgy. Hell why don't you just go and desecrate the battle ship Arizona in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii? Now, i'd like to see that! I hate to break this to you, but the Japanese did that in 1942. Besides, again that ship isn't mine or yours, so that's a ridiculous statement. I will do what I wish with my property, with or w/o your permission. Please, can you muster a correct analogy or argument?

So you know why I voted for people? Wow, you are missing your true calling guessing people weights and futures at the freak show. You mistake AGAIN "free" with good. Nice one-liners (rolls eyes). So you know why I voted for people? Wow, you are missing your true calling guessing people weights and futures at the freak show. Well, then explaion why you voted for our monkey in chief. People, intelligent people vote for candidates that represent their beliefs. If you are person, as I think yiou are, and if you are intelligent, then you will follow some sort of thought process like this. Do you vote the opposite of you beliefs, or is it that you put corporate interests before, oh, let's say AIDS victims? Instead of this illiteration style one-liner replies, why not actually answer the question? You mistake AGAIN "free" with good. What????? That makes loads of sense.

That shows your knowledge right there. Islam believes in Christ, Jews don't. So supporting Israel, does NOT support Chritianity. Whether your assertion is correct or not, it's not their interpretation, it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. I was establishing that we go to war partially due to the Jebus card, not why they believe what they believe. Can you understand that? Doubt it.

Availability has nothing to do with quality. Just because you have your panties in a wad of the cost does not mean it is not good care. Resorting to the panties line.... beats having an argument worth casting. Uh, what I wrote was the there are 2 aspects to medical care - 2 major ones. 1. Quality 2. Quantity, which is availability. So in an American Republican way, you're right; If care is not available due to exclusivity, the quality doesn't matter. IOW's, keep refusing care to the poor and they can't bitch aboutthe quality of it.

In the future, we will see more and more people going overseas to get stem-cell treatments that they can't get here in the US, and to get procedures that they could never afford here. And the smart ones will stay....

Can you read? Re-read my statement that you posted. *YAWN* Are you the pot or the kettle?

Fortunately the Senate needs a supermajority to pass, which won't likely happen.

I have never understood US backing of Israel. IMO with friends like that, who needs enemies? I don't see the support as being based on Christianity, though I would really like to see your reasoning. Again, I would like more detail on your reasoning. Many Muslims were highly upset by some comment that President Bush made that included the word "crusade". Their interpretation was that the US invasion of Iraq was some sort of holy war that Bush was waging. To me, their response indicated a complete lack of understanding of how this country works. I believe that the primary motivations of the people that run the US are money and power. When they hide behind religion, it is only for convenience. Walt I have never understood US backing of Israel. IMO with friends like that, who needs enemies? I don't see the support as being based on Christianity, though I would really like to see your reasoning. Birthplace of Jebus. Do you see us going to Taiwan's aide like that? Again, I would like more detail on your reasoning. Many Muslims were highly upset by some comment that President Bush made that included the word "crusade". Their interpretation was that the US invasion of Iraq was some sort of holy war that Bush was waging. The thought processes and semantic statements of some uneducated Iraqis means zero to me. WHat I'm talking about is the actual, substantive going to war over many things, one of which is religious ideology. For example, one thing argued over there by US officials is that Christianity wasn't legal or allowed. If we're there to keep the world safe and find WMD's, who gives a rat's ass about religion? To me, their response indicated a complete lack of understanding of how this country works. Sure, agreed, but this is not aboutthem or their interpretation, reaction, etc., this is about our actions and motives. I believe that the primary motivations of the people that run the US are money and power. When they hide behind religion, it is only for convenience. I think it is so dynamic that it is impossible to understand it at the tim, maybe ever. Sometimes it'smoney, sometimes spite,sometimes oil, sometimes religion, sometimes XYZ. It's usually a proportion of many of these things.