
EBSB52
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I think people slam the US because in part they don't understand it, In some instances, but I slam it because I know it well. The us was one of 8 countries to kill kids until 6 months ago. The US has one of the highest incarceration rates, run by corps for profit. The US has one of the highest rates of homeless, whilehaving amongstthe most filthy rich. DO I need to go on? If I were to talk about medical care exclusivity then we could open a whole new chapter. and in part because the US is empire building and belives that it has the answer to the worlds problems in its own form of economic governance and democracy which it tries mostly in good faith to export to people and cultures that neither want or need it. Great point.... one word, ETHNOCENTRICITY. It means forcibly pushing your ethnicity off on other countries/people. Just ask the American Indians what they think of it (hint: Indian schools).
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Don't get sucked into this. Ron will leave hits and then look for ways he can adjust other people's meanings to somehow victimize his character. I was using the term, "Nazi" as a metaphor; you were using it more analagously - nothing directed at anyone, but it distracts the subject, which is the intention.
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Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
It's a very convoluted equation, but the fact that interest rates are at 45 year lows indicates a struggling economy. Now, why is it struggling? I think the shift of money to corps has a lot to do with it. BK's at all time highs during Bush's first term is a byproduct of Bushenomics as well. Of course they are all but doing away with BK's, so that number will fall just like unemployment rates did when Bush refused to sign extensions after 9/11 with all those people out of work, so the numbers get manipulated via a Nazi-run economic system. Deny benefits - looks good from up here. Struggling economy? Interest rates are on the rise if you haven't noticed. .......and I will not respond to name calling Nazi-run economic system......hhmmm....once again, it's only correct if it is done your way? Struggling economy? Look at the entire Bush 1st term. Interest rates are on the rise if you haven't noticed. ....... Really, my GF just refi'd and got an even lower rate than a year ago. .......and I will not respond to name calling Nazi-run economic system I'm not calling you a Nazi - it's a metaphor to describe our chimp's economics. once again, it's only correct if it is done your way? This is not about you or me, it's about our current chimp and in general which party does what to the economy. It's not my way, never has, never will. Answer the substance ofthe questions. Fuck, getting some conservatives to answer questions is like writing interoggatories. I realize there is no data that makes your party / bush look good, which is why the distraction, but now that I've called it out, try to answer questions. You know, you and I do not agree but, regardless your calling the president of the US a chimp is insulting at best. When you grow up maybe we can have a cordial exchange. 2 posts in a row you answer long posts with a 1-liner. I realize it's tough to defend the actions of a chimp like we have, so just fully acquiesce instead of pretending a response. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Which thread? Post your question or the site. You are the one supporting NATCA ... HUH? the ATC Union Yes when it has been proven that in just one of 500 AT Facilities, that union wasted 4.12 Million in US tax dollars last year. Who proved what to whom? Make a little sense here. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
What I think is funny is how when the numbers show a deficit when a Republican is in office, they believe them but when they show a surplus, then the numbers have been manipulated. Show us numbers from governmental agencies that show a Republican surplus. I'm not sayingthey don't exist, I'm just asking for your evidence. Look, Hoover, architect of tricle down, helped throw the country into a recession - FRD pulled us out. Reagan borrowed and spent us into a recession that Bush 1 took the heat for. Bush 2 is doing more than Reagan did to shift power/money to corps and we see the results. It has been established time and time again that a Republican economy shifts themoney to the corps, they sit on it and the market stagnates. The Dems give much ofit ot the poor who immediately spend it and the market thrives. Why no mention of Carter in there before Reagan? Why no mention of Carter in there before Reagan? Carter, like Ford, was a non-factor in most categories. The 70's weren't great presidential years. I didn't like Carter, although I like many things about Nixon. I despised LBJ - he was a Nazi just like Bush2 is. So b4 the conservs think I'm Repub bashing - wrong. I'm a registered Repub, but can't see myself voting that way again or in the near future. So to more fully answer your question, the country was in transition in the 70's, then the Fascist generation started around Reagan, which is why I started there. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
The lefties also like to forget that Clinton wanted to nationalize healthcare which would have blown a hole in the US economy that we may never have recovered from. Who does your crystal ball say will win the Superbowl? Most ofthe rest of the world has some form of Socialized Medicine - have for decades - how is that they are bankrupt? I guess I could claim a contract is valid if I held a gun to your head and forced you to sign it too. Nobody is trying to live off 9/11 but you cannot ignore the fact that it had an effect on the economy. You also cannot deny that during the last year of Clintons term, we were entering into a recession. By all means their parents should provide them with medical coverage. How does that song go???? Oh yea, "Oops up side ya head." Your own site gave us this: Many Germans, on the centre-right as well as the centre-left, think their laisser-faire critics are exaggerating. Carpers have been saying much the same thing for decades, yet Germany remains a rich and comfortable country that treats its old, its sick and its unemployed far more generously than does, say, America or Britain. “Germans live very well. We have a fantastic welfare system,” said Alfred Tacke, a confidant of Mr Schröder in the economics ministry. “Our infrastructure is fantastic. Our workers have six or even eight weeks' holiday a year.” The Americans, he says, work about 25% more hours in a year. So what, he seems to be implying, if Germany drops a few places in those league tables of growth and productivity Ya, we Americans ar so fucking lucky...... what a joke. Wonder why I wanna move???? The French site gave me this: Legislation passed in 1998 shortened the legal workweek from 39 to 35 hours effective January 1, 2000. A key objective of the legislation is to encourage job creation, for which significant new subsidies will be made available. Which is opposite of the Fascist POCrap we have now that legislated the Overtime Bill, which would increase unemployment by way of requiring more workers into management rioles, working more hiours for free, hence requiring fewer employees. What did France do? They shortened the workweek so the companies had to hgire more workers. Other than that I don't see your point; the article makes those countries look fairly descent. I could give you a lot more but I think you get the picture. Notice France has an unemployment rate of almost double that of the U.S. and you guys bitch about Bush. Don't pretend to know how their system of UR work and I won't. I would guess that once an employee is out of work they are considered unemployed until reemployed. In the US once they drop off the eligibility roles they are no longer employed. With Europe's Social system I would guess that they don't do it the same way the US does. I guess I could claim a contract is valid if I held a gun to your head and forced you to sign it too. Veiled threat noted and I don't think a person of your statutre could get me in that predicament. As for duress, I don't see any correlation to the point at hand; was Clinton pursuaded into signing a budget, hence his record-breaking economy wasn't due to his actions. Nobody is trying to live off 9/11 but you cannot ignore the fact that it had an effect on the economy. Yes, a short-term affect but the reaction Bush taking care of the corps and disallowing unemp extensions defined his concerns. You also cannot deny that during the last year of Clintons term, we were entering into a recession. Last 6 months we had a downturn of most indicators. With that it wasn't going into the dump, it was slightly turning down. Bush's reaction was what? Give away the surplus. By all means their parents should provide them with medical coverage. You assume that these parents are working and / or intelligent enough to get them care or apply for access, etc... Tall assumption to make. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Why not address the graph instead of writing that vile rhetoric? Maybe you can have a test to make sure everyone meeting your inteligance levels before they can vote Well, Kallend is probably the most intelligent person on the board, so your point??????? Address the graph...... Refute the graph...... Do something..... Read my post above regarding the surpluses under Clinton. Add to that 9/11 which caused a jump in unemployment, and add the cost of the war (whether you agree with it or not, you can't ignore the cost), so try hard to refrain from the usual Bushbash. I disagree quite a bit of with what Congress is spending money on. I think a lot of money is being wasted and I wouldn't vote for Bush if he could run for a third term. Read my post above regarding the surpluses under Clinton. What is your post about regarding CLinton - which statements? Add to that 9/11 which caused a jump in unemployment,... Let's talk this for a moment. What was Bush's reaction? Well, he gave the airlines a multi-billion dollar gift and didin't require they keep all employees as a contingency of the gifts. Then he axed an unemplyment extension when those same workers ran out of unemployment due to the airline collapse after 9/11. I am an acft worker which is why this matters to me. So, is Bush2 a corporate POS or what? Just gloss over this paragraph..... I know you will. and add the cost of the war (whether you agree with it or not, you can't ignore the cost), OK, the war was an executive decision, even against the UN. Congress did vote for the war, so I don't exonerate them either. Whether or not I agree with the war matters not, what does matter is that Bush sent us to war and is keeping us there at 1 billion $ per week. We can't just avoud that. so try hard to refrain from the usual Bushbash. Find yourself defending Bush a lot? Ya, I sympathize. I disagree quite a bit of with what Congress is spending money on. You mean like the war that Bush started and refuses to quit? I think a lot of money is being wasted and I wouldn't vote for Bush if he could run for a third term. Wait, wait..... Bush is wonderful, projected this and that looks great, but I wouldn't vote for him again? WTF???? Hey, Clinton was my president even tho I didn't vote for him, but I can criticizethings he's done - learn to do the same. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
It's a very convoluted equation, but the fact that interest rates are at 45 year lows indicates a struggling economy. Now, why is it struggling? I think the shift of money to corps has a lot to do with it. BK's at all time highs during Bush's first term is a byproduct of Bushenomics as well. Of course they are all but doing away with BK's, so that number will fall just like unemployment rates did when Bush refused to sign extensions after 9/11 with all those people out of work, so the numbers get manipulated via a Nazi-run economic system. Deny benefits - looks good from up here. Struggling economy? Interest rates are on the rise if you haven't noticed. .......and I will not respond to name calling Nazi-run economic system......hhmmm....once again, it's only correct if it is done your way? Struggling economy? Look at the entire Bush 1st term. Interest rates are on the rise if you haven't noticed. ....... Really, my GF just refi'd and got an even lower rate than a year ago. .......and I will not respond to name calling Nazi-run economic system I'm not calling you a Nazi - it's a metaphor to describe our chimp's economics. once again, it's only correct if it is done your way? This is not about you or me, it's about our current chimp and in general which party does what to the economy. It's not my way, never has, never will. Answer the substance ofthe questions. Fuck, getting some conservatives to answer questions is like writing interoggatories. I realize there is no data that makes your party / bush look good, which is why the distraction, but now that I've called it out, try to answer questions. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Why not address the graph instead of writing that vile rhetoric? Maybe you can have a test to make sure everyone meeting your inteligance levels before they can vote Well, Kallend is probably the most intelligent person on the board, so your point??????? Address the graph...... Refute the graph...... Do something..... I did not start this by saying anybody was duped. Vile?.....give me a break The graph needs to be looked at in the correct context. 1) today's projected defict is less than years past when compared to the GNP (I did address this earlier) 2) I did do something! I voted for the best president we have had since Reagan. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
What I think is funny is how when the numbers show a deficit when a Republican is in office, they believe them but when they show a surplus, then the numbers have been manipulated. Show us numbers from governmental agencies that show a Republican surplus. I'm not sayingthey don't exist, I'm just asking for your evidence. Look, Hoover, architect of tricle down, helped throw the country into a recession - FRD pulled us out. Reagan borrowed and spent us into a recession that Bush 1 took the heat for. Bush 2 is doing more than Reagan did to shift power/money to corps and we see the results. It has been established time and time again that a Republican economy shifts themoney to the corps, they sit on it and the market stagnates. The Dems give much ofit ot the poor who immediately spend it and the market thrives. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
The lefties also like to forget that Clinton wanted to nationalize healthcare which would have blown a hole in the US economy that we may never have recovered from. Who does your crystal ball say will win the Superbowl? Most ofthe rest of the world has some form of Socialized Medicine - have for decades - how is that they are bankrupt? They also like to conveniently forget that Clinton didn't want a balanced budget and the only reason we had surpluses was that he was dragged kicking and screaming by a Republican controlled Congress and forced to balance the budget. OK, you can throw whatever you want out there as to your claims that he didi or did not go along with Congress, truth is that he signed a budget that worked god damned well. The most lucrative time in world history as I understand it - he must have done something right. So now that we have a COngress that is even more Republican, who's fault is it? Gonna live off 9/11 forever? BTW, is it ok if kids don't have medical coverage? -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Honestly, I think that pretty much every administration (Clinton, Bush, whoever) mashes those numbers as hard as they can to put themselves in the best light. Definately, but in gross number situatins from government offices, it's hard to wiggle the numbers. I would like to see fiscal numbers from the Bush camp that cast him in a positive light. I realize many times the projected numbers get mixed with the actuals creating a lot of ambiguity. I find it interesting that a bunch of the same folks who are saying the Bush administration is just wiggling the numbers to their advantage are also taking the Clinton numbers as gospel. Fiscally,he was golden. His sihning of NAFTA after Bush 1 started it, sucked. His pardoning of Slimington sucked. I voted Perot and then Dole, so I didn't directly vote him in, but in retrospect he was great. He shifted tax revenue form the rich to the poor and made education possible for many.... now Bush is, uh, fixxing that. There is no right or wrong, fiscally, but if you are rich, go Repub - poor go Dem - they have your respective best wishes in mind of the 2 parties. Where the table gets skewed is with the moral vote;the Repubs have masterfully sucked the religious right,who might otherwise vote Dem, into going with them. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
It's a very convoluted equation, but the fact that interest rates are at 45 year lows indicates a struggling economy. Now, why is it struggling? I think the shift of money to corps has a lot to do with it. BK's at all time highs during Bush's first term is a byproduct of Bushenomics as well. Of course they are all but doing away with BK's, so that number will fall just like unemployment rates did when Bush refused to sign extensions after 9/11 with all those people out of work, so the numbers get manipulated via a Nazi-run economic system. Deny benefits - looks good from up here. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Why not address the graph instead of writing that vile rhetoric? Maybe you can have a test to make sure everyone meeting your inteligance levels before they can vote Well, Kallend is probably the most intelligent person on the board, so your point??????? Address the graph...... Refute the graph...... Do something..... -
No shit Pardon the fuck out of me for post a jump site w/o knowing you weren't supposed to. The more I get to know base jumpers the more they seem like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory.
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Hey! If you don't like speakers corner why don't you just leave! I'll give you $500 dollars and a visa for you to join those flag burning liberal nancy boys in the bonfire- speakers corner, love it or leave it! Bahahahhhhhhahahahahahaha... that is funny shit. Don't forget to give him cyber transportation to the BF!!!
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These idiotic countries think they can bully smaller countries into submission. The attacks will continue forever.
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I was not the one making the deal. But I find it funny that you hate this place, but stay. Big talk, small walk. What if a person hypothetically hates the US and wants to make changes via legal protest? Are they scared? What if that person decides to leave? Are they scared? Your labeling of people is inane. Alos, this guy didn't say he hated the U S either, why accuse him of that? There is a continuum where hate resides on one end and love on the other; many spaces inbetween.
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Got proof it was enterd wrong...Oh wait you never have proof. And your crystal ball must be great since you can see no benefit in the future. Again you have no clue about the military...You think the President made the order...That right there shows your lack of knowledge...But as always you never let that stop you form haveing an "Expert" opinion. Ah scared....What they dont have schools in other countries? You are a big talker...But that talk is BS. Your actions show what you are. You are not banned now...But you still talk big, but walk small. The joke is how you talk big about how much you hate this country, but are afraid to leave. How about the next line in your big talk? If POS equals Piece of Shit....Well you saying you don't hate it in the next line does not mean much unless you love shit. Just like you? Like I said...Scared to leave. You talk big, but walk small. Got proof it was enterd wrong... HUH? What language is that? Was it entered erroneously? Was it entered on false pretense? I can answer those. Interesting, objective chronology of events about the WMD's. http://www.answers.com/topic/iraq-and-weapons-of-mass-destruction In the build up to the 2003 war the New York Times published a number of stories claiming to prove that Iraq possessed WMD. One story in particular, written by Judith Miller helped persuade the American public that Iraq had WMD: in September 2002 she wrote about an intercepted shipment of aluminium tubes which the NYT said were to be used to develop nuclear material. It is now clear that they could not be used for that purpose. In an interview with BBC in June 2004 David Kay, former head of the Iraq Survey Group, made the following comment: "Anyone out there holding — as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said — the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, [is] really delusional." I swear I read a report where the White House officially stated there were no WMD's, just bad intelligence. Either way, There were no actual WMD's, there will be none found. And your crystal ball must be great since you can see no benefit in the future. No benefit of what in the future? Getting rid of SH? Ok, where now, N. Korea? Oh wait, they kicked our ass last time when they did nothing to us, just like now, but now they have Nukes, or so it goes. We only pick on weak, pathetic countries, that's why we did Iraq twice. Since WWII name 1 country we took on by military action that is more than a little POS, defenseless country. Again you have no clue about the military...You think the President made the order...That right there shows your lack of knowledge...But as always you never let that stop you form haveing an "Expert" opinion. Instead of threatening to enlighten me, just do so by way of empirical information. Ah scared....What they dont have schools in other countries? You are a big talker...But that talk is BS. Your actions show what you are. Not scared, just waiting for the prime opportunity. Why would I throw my life away to prove a point to you and that anonymous poster? There is a time for everything and I will move when it suits me, I will or will not forfeit my citizenship as it benefits me. My agenda is to get out of this country, but not to be in a strange land w/o the ability to earn very good money. As for schools in other countries, I don't know what the admissions requirements for aliens are and I don't care to check. Why not stay here and finish my schooling then move when I have my career set? I have zero to prove to you, my sentiments of this country aren't great and I would like to see its protocol change, but I don't see it happening. I spent my 18th birthday in basic training, so I don't think a move overseas in my 40's should scare me too much. You are not banned now...But you still talk big, but walk small. So I have to alienate everything in the middle of my schooling in order to prove something to you? Ridiculous. I think you are weak, why not go out and beg for money like the other anonymous poster said he did - get 250k and I will up and leave for good? The joke is how you talk big about how much you hate this country, but are afraid to leave. Find the quote where I claim I hate this country or keep lying via misquotes. If POS equals Piece of Shit....Well you saying you don't hate it in the next line does not mean much unless you love shit. [/] It's just like a conservative to be black / white. The US is a POS in many ways, I can describe a few for you if you wish. It has some positive attributes as well, but to me the negative overwhelm them. - America being a POS or not is a definition based upon an sum total of all the attributes. - Me hating the US (which I don't) is an opinion with lots of emotion. I understand you probably don't have the capacity to differentiate the two, but I'm not a US hater and I'm not a shit lover, I simply think the US has a long way to go as compared to other countries so I'm going to give them a try when I get prepared. Like I said...Scared to leave. You talk big, but walk small. Because I will leave the US when I am vocationally prepared and I may retain my US citizenship for tax or other reasons? I may forego it and gain citizenship in anther country that doesn’t allow duality. It's my choice and I'm not going to let some internet argument deviate me from my goal.
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Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
You're right. If I am an Avon distributor and I buy $1,000.00 worth of stuff from myself, I will have earned a few bucks in commission. Those commissions are great for my economic future. Sounds like the definition of robbery. Recall that Robin Hood didn't steal from the rich to give to the poor. He stole from the nobility who lived well off of the taxes they collected. It turned out that the poor were taxed into being poor. Such arguments call for equal misery among all. You're right. If I am an Avon distributor and I buy $1,000.00 worth of stuff from myself, I will have earned a few bucks in commission. Those commissions are great for my economic future. I get the analogy and it's close, but we have a system of many people so that distances it somewhat. Sounds like the definition of robbery. You're going to have robbery either way. Do you want the CEO of Worldcom to embezzle 11 billion or a bunch of trailer trash to embezzle 200 each totallingfar less than the 11 billion collectively? BTW, the latter immediatley turns his money back into the economy, the former hides his to see if he can get away with it, slowing the economy. I'm not justifying either, just establishing what happens to it once either side takes it. Recall that Robin Hood didn't steal from the rich to give to the poor. He stole from the nobility who lived well off of the taxes they collected. Ya know, I don't know that - I don't read fairy tales. I was under the impression that he did steal from the poor. It turned out that the poor were taxed into being poor. Was that Limbaugh's rendition of Robin Hood? Sounds revised. Such arguments call for equal misery among all. Because poor people get financial help and 10% of them scam the system that's misery? Especially considering the alternative that we now see with all the corporate swindling. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Tax cuts might have been fine if they weren't coupled with a jacked up spending budget at the same time. A large portion of the reason I picked Bush over Gore was that I expect Gore to raise spending, and it's much easier to repeal a tax cut than to undo new spending. Bush failed the country. In '04, neither party got my vote. Bragging about a 325B deficit just a few years after a surplus is pathetic, man. Getting the unemployment back to the same level isn't an accomplisment either. It's actually much like Reagan's first term in office. For 2 years the economy got worse, then it recovered to the initial levels just in time for reelection. It wasn't Reagan's tax cuts that made the difference, it was the heavy increase in federal spending that primed the economy. it was the heavy increase in federal spending that primed the economy. That's honestly great to see a consevative guy see this truth. I'm not saying the Dems have it all right, and to pipe off millions to the lazy mother fuckers isn't so appealing either, but we have choices. The Repubs general protocol is to increase spending to military programs and cut taxes - no $$$ left for social programs. Now, where does teh money go? To rich corps. WHat do they do with it? Decide how mich they want to embezzle/swindle, decide how much they need to spend in the way of jobs to attain the correct write-off. The Dems raise taxes slightly in most cases and pump the social programs full helping all people, yes, including lazy ones - so what. Generally I've noticed a drop in crime when the gov does this. People can work, train. etc. so they will. When the economy is slowed, the coprs hang on to much of teh wealth deciding when to tricklle it down, people hurt. When the economy is sped up, job are plentiful and wages increase;corps don't do as well as they have to compete for labor. This is why I'm a fiscal liberal, no other reasons like Jerome needs his crack money so he gets his ho to sell her food stamos for fiddy cents on the dollah. I don't love or embrace these people, but to deny them is to deny many times the number of needy people actual benefits so they can better their lives. There will be corrpution with either system, but to choose between some fat-cat greedy POS sitting on millions/billions so he can slowly spend it nausiates me far more than some trailer trash POS figuring a barter system so he can turn food stamps into beer. Yes, Reagan did spend us out of the recession of the early 80's. The B-1B was the best example of that. 100 acft @ 300 million each for a worthless POS. Yes, I worked on the B1 in manufacturing and the B-52 in the military and the latter blows away the former. What the Repubs seem to do is to tie in morality with the economy, which to me are strange bedfellows. -
So lecture hour... or???? We all learn by discussing, arguing, and hopefully not quarreling. Are you saying that if we disagree with your ideologies then we are just arguing? BTW, aruments are constructive discussions, not to be confused with quarreling.
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Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Then you said: If you read it again you will be able to noodle out that I was looking for opposing views. But never mind I'm not up for a Bushbashfest. I guess after reading this: Weren't there one or two people on here who said tax cuts for the rich were a bad idea? What say you now? I just assumed you have predisposed bias against taxes, so when I read your statement I assumed you were looking for support against taxes. Now, I haven’t picked apart this article, but in a very general sense I have defined the 3 main forms of economic governments; what’s your take on that? As for the stats we could have Greenspan in here spinning that shit around talking GNP and projected taxes/projected deficits till the end of time and we wouldn’t get anywhere. I thought the justice system was easy to spin, it has zero on the economy. As for a Bush-bash, it's kind of hard not to include the things he's done, as well as this extreme Congress and Sup Ct. Are you going to talk about the 90's and taxes w/o bringing in Clinton? There is a correlation. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
and I think taxes are pretty much the worst thing that can be done to a man. We have 3 main tx ideologies: 1) Supply side / trickle down -In supply side economics, the rich get the tax grants as with Hoover, Reagan, Bush2, etc... They then "trickel down" whatever they want to the masses and devise their economic schemes to best benefit the corps, not the people. 2) Consumer side (as I call it) / Socialism -Here, the people have a lot more control of the tax structure and spending, which is the most important part (spending). Consumers control the market much more and in a general Capitalistic market as we have in the US, it worls well until the rich get ahold of it and skew it. In this market scheme, taxes that are collected are redirected to the poor, who spend it immediatley. The market tends to continually move which can cause inflation, but increased interest rates can slow the market while ensuring enough activity to be healthy. As we've all seen recently, you can run the interest rates thru the floor and it may not spur the economy, but raising them will certainly slow the economy if needed. 3) Then there's Communism, where the gov controls everything. The central theme is about who will control the economy/market 1. Corporations 2. Citizens 3. Government I know which I want and which party plays the most into it. But I still don't buy the central premise of that article. Ya, it the, "Ice cream causes rape" argument all over again. Taxes ought to be reduced (in my dream world, eliminated) because they are a fundamental affront to human freedom--not because I can wiggle some figures enough to say that doing so actually makes the government money. Who would pay for the war? Is it ok that kids are w/o medical attention? Job retraining? If the tax rates were lowered, would we see any difference in our society? If social spending was reduced/eliminated, would we see a difference in our tax structure? Tom, don't buy into this, "If people quit making false insurance claims our insurance rates would drop" argument. Kind of ironic that the Repubs don't believe that social programs help to improve the economy by the hiring of people for gov positions, which generate tax revenue. But to forcibly procure a person's house is a good thing for tax revenue. Oh well, things have a way of 'adjusting' themselves. -
Tax Cuts for the Rich Reduce U.S. Budget Deficit
EBSB52 replied to Gravitymaster's topic in Speakers Corner
Unemployment rates are as believable as Bush. the Unemp rate calculates the portion/rate of people collecting benefit, when their benefits run out they fall off the U.R. list. Actually the UR was at many decade lows during the Clinton years and was starting to edge up right b4 Bush 2 took office. Furthermore, this Nazi in Chief has rejected every proposal of unemployment extensions that have crossed his desk, so that keeps the UR low. Bush 1, a man that I despised at the time, looks grand as compared to this creep. Furthermore, Bush1 was a war hero like McCain and others, wheras this former drunk/druggie did all he could to dodge going over or even training here for his entire term. Point is, these stats are as manipulable as these corporate-run presidents. I'd rather have those who were opposed to the tax cuts explain to us again why they thought the cuts were bad. I'd rather argue with people who oppose me rather than some carbon copy of myself, but I guess you are looking for support rather than opposing views.