EBSB52

Constitutionally it's not really freedon of religion in the sense you have posted it. It's actually protection against a state-sponsored religion, which we are not.

Isn't that a circular argument? Your opinion is that of creation, yet you don't give a shit about individual opinions or collective opinions (polls). Not that I want to disallow your opinion

Arizona and I think West Virginia are the most gun owning states in the nation, or at least the laws allow for the least hindrance in owning guns. So to answer your question I say: I don't know! Motive to own and/or carry depends upon the individual. There is a dirty harry mentality, and there are responsible gun owners, so take your pick. Right, a person could carry a tazer, but that is one shot unless you get the type where you have to touch someone with it. I don't carry, but I own plenty. I used to carry, but it isn't wise to do so.

Do you have examples? Are policemen in the US forced to use "new" kinds of weapons that are less effective than a handgun? Would be hard to imagine... Umm, yea there called bean bags. They are shot out of a shotgun and are supposed to be non lethal, but nothing is 100% But these have got law enforcement into trouble also, being they cannot incapacitate, just slow the perp, down for a minute. The college girl in Boston is what I think of when I think of bean bags. She was killed when Boston won the World Series when she was acting peacefully in a demonstration.

Do you have examples? Are policemen in the US forced to use "new" kinds of weapons that are less effective than a handgun? Would be hard to imagine... It's ok if cops kill, just ask my neighbor the former Officer Lovelace that killed a woman at a Walgreens in a suburb of Phoenix. So unfortunately that's not an issue with the state. They are now using tazers, and they use them for amusement apparently. Chandler recently tazered a 13 year old girl who was unarmed, they thought she might kick them. Tucson tazered an unruly 13 year old while she was handcuffed in the back seat. Of course these fine oficers were fully exonerated. I imagine things might be different where you're from, but here the government doesn't care if cops kill people - they call it deterrence.

Wait, liberal thinking? I'm left of center, but VERY pro-gun. Ok, so someone is naive, does that mean they are liberal? Liberal thinking has to do with a person's mental orientation toward how society should treat its people in regard to welfare, prison, etc.... It's laughable how the conservative right will whine about how the universities are filled with liberals, yet use arguments about naivete / ignorance and attach that to liberalism. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You do understand the deduction, right? Universities = learning institutions Liberals congregate at universities (according to the right) Conclusion = Liberals are more educated / less ignorant I have been to and graduated from a state university, so I disagree with the thought that universities are full of liberals; there were as many conservatives.

I stated I was not a christian in 2nd. line: Giving credit to the original author by citing sources is the only way to use other people's work without plagiarizing. ------citing the source of that line of info came from:http://www.turnitin.com/research_site/e_citation.html My buddy Rafe Mair : http://www.rafeonline.com/about.shtml inspired quite alot of my post (listen to his radio show almost daily)- also read recent editorial by him titled "The bible is not that easy to interpret".... Interesting the link you provided did not have citation to Rafe Mair, and the wording of that editorial is different? ahhh, the sinners today SMiles Glass houses for everyone, especially me! Religion is a very emotional issue, and if cornered, some will venture to misdirection to avoid the real issues like: Judgment, and our place within it. Great post.

where are the criminal charges? None. Why did Harris get re-elected if she was so bad? Why did Bush beat Kerry if he "lost" last time? Face it you lost twice, get over it "Why did Bush beat Kerry if he "lost" last time?" He was appointed by the US Sup Ct the first time, then apparently elected this last time. "where are the criminal charges?' Please, don't act as if all crimes are charged. That's as bad as saying that OJ must be innocent (or not guilty) because the jury said so. This last election was legitimate as far as I can tell. The former one, with all of the conflict of interest may have been different if things were investigated. Oh well, look what we gained with Bushy in ofice: 1. More arsenic in drinking water 2. Cut Ergonomics Bill 3. Record budget deficit 4. Most job losses since Hoover, then refused to extend unemp beneifts 5. First time the US blatantly refused the UN, dissassociating us from them. 6. Most secretive administration ever 7. Entered a war without probable cause, and lied about all of it with the notion of WMD's 8. Allows Mexican truck on the road even without safety, smog, or insurance requirements of the US truckers 9. Gave tax benefits to corporations that sent jobs overseas, and has been quoted as saying it's a good thing to outsource jobs. Clinton supposedly gave military secrets to China and was booed, Bush exports millions of US jobs and is elected - how dumb can 59 million people be?

I love it. When science and researchers disprove a myth all of a sudden its 'left-wing'. As to socially 'unacceptable behavior', well how prevelant is infidelity amongst married couples? How does that impact kids. "Once again a statement is made: gays should not adopt and when asked for proof as to why none is given." Isn't that the same reply for most/all other subjects too, when talking to the conservative/moral right?

After reading this thread, I'm inclined to lean toward Reginald. Now I guess I will take some bashing, so let me disclaim a bit. I'm a Kevorkianite, that is, I believe that if someone wants to kill themselves it should be a right, unlikethe political right wants to and has statutorily prohibited it. I hate it when someone intentionally commits suicide while skydiving, but hell, any one of us might find ourselves at that point. Maybe a gun, maybe altitude, maybe pills; your choice, real hard to prosecute. With that said, you don't have the right to kill someone else, and this, "out" to which we refer might be someone else's primary landing zone. It happens all the time where 2 people come together on landing, which means someone was probably overtaking someone else. Now, if a general newbie, like anyone with under 500 jumps wants to do crazy shit, all I can say is: let me watch!!!! I love to watch crazy shit, as we all do, but just don't hurt anyone else. Problem with this theory is that seldom does a person get the landing area all to themselves, so they put others at risk when they MAY not be ready. Let me qualify the 500 jump number thing. I realize that some people are a hazzard at 500 jumps, or are just getting by, and some are great at 200, so I'm using a broad brush when I say, and agree with Reginald that 247 is relatively inexperienced when learning to do an activity within skydiving that has the leading genre of mortality. We're not talking CREW, not wingsuit, not skysurfing, we're talking about venturing into an aspect of skydiving that kills more skydivers than any other aspect of skydiving. Again, go for it, but don't kill anyone else with an out. Now, the next issue is that of motive. Why would a low-timer want to hook? Maybe to show off? Maybe to run with the big boys? I dunno, just sens me the footage please!!!

it was my understanding that we were on the same page. Unless the sarcasm in my original reply was missed? My bad

What's my name and where the hell am I? Come on, no reply to the subsatnce of the post????

Socially acceptable revolves around thoughts for that time period. This definition changes all the time as civilization changes. What was once acceptable, now isn't and so on. So steril parents shouldn't adopt either. I mean, nature took away their ability to procreate for a reason, right? Influence, yes. Control no. Hopefully your family, like you, have their own life experiences to base their opinions on. Not what YOU or anyone else wants them to believe. Trying to manipulate them into your way of thinking doesn't sound very nurturing to me. Blues, Ian "So steril parents shouldn't adopt either. I mean, nature took away their ability to procreate for a reason, right?" Oh my God, what am I? I, unnaturally had an artificial sterialization, AKA vasectomy, when I was 31 (11 years ago), so what does that make me? Am I a rung below the accidentially/naturally sterilized? BTW, this sarcasm isn't against the author of this post, just the author of the post to which they replied. Confusing enough?

"If they were meant to raise children nature would have given them the means to create them." If we were meant to fly we would have been given wings by nature. So quit skyflying or you'll be as "unnatural" as a homosexual. "One article hardly makes it fact." There is pretty much no such thing as fact. The more educated institutions you place yourself around, the less people use the word, "fact" or, "proof." There is basically evidence and support to derive a conclusion. "It is very easy for left leaning researchers to come up with whatever finding they choose to find." And it's very easy for right-wingers to paint types of people with hate, especially those that don't follow the right-wing doctrine. "It seems like every year "researchers" come up with more support for why socially unacceptable behavior is OK." Ok, but enough skydiving bashing already. Do you think skydiving is socially acceptable? Every time some jumper bounces, especially in a residential neighborhood, don't you think our sport becomes less and less socially acceptable? Be careful with your slippery slope. "Gays should not be permitted to adopt." Or breath, according you, right? "We can argue forever on whether gays raising children is acceptable or not. I have no control over the general public. However, I do control my own family, and if I were to die it would be specifically prohibited in my will for my my children to be adopted by a gay couple." Tell me you don't sit around pulling your hair out about this. As for the legal issue, you can write it until your hate stains the paper and you will never have absolute control over it. If died, they could be given to a straight family, then reassigned to a gay family, especially if there was no one that saw or was willing to enforce the provisions in the will. I know, just teach them homophobia and they'll automatically start the hate and govern themselves..... or is that they'll hit the rebelious years and experiment to piss off dear old dad? I can't remember.

What is "normal"? You know, God-loving, church going, Republican voting, etc, etc, etc...... Assimilate to being normal like the US Constitution prescribes, not the right be different.

You mean like you guts did when Gore lost? Just move on right? Or maybe how all you guys were saying the machines were rigged? You guys should try it before telling others to do it. Katherine Harris Jeb Bush Most of the US Sup Ct being satcked by Reagan/Bush 1 ....... and no conflict of interest? Whatever

Well, Bush received less votes than Gore in 2000, so it's actually that Kerry received fewer electoral votes than Bush. But I know that's what you meant Actually the reason the Dems can't win is that the fiscal right and the moral right are to many. The Dems are gonna have to accept some moral right extremist ideologies or never again win.

Where do you buy your paintbrushes? I have never been able to find the mega-broad ones that are like 3 feet across like that.

Gee, then my parents must have been same sex parents. My mom was pretty much there; dad not at all. Where does your theory come from? Is it that you think 1 person adopts the child and the other person just goes along for the ride? Or is it that the child is from a hetero marriage and the custodial parent "discovers" they're gay? I just don't get the hate?

1. I don't think this is the wrong area either. It is for incidents, not just fatalities. 2. The only issue here is attitude and you have corrected that, so this is a success. If someone posted this and replied with, "F^#^ You, I'll hook where and when I want." Well, mission not accomplished. But you realized the error and hopefully won't be tempted. I keep thinking of that pretty girl at Peris that had 1100 jumps, was on a team, smart as a whip as she was a lawyer at 27 YO, and she tried a 270 degree hook. Died a couple days later. She had never hooked before, but was trying to phase into it with a 270. Then the instructor at Buckeye, Arizona that simply did a straight-in front riser dive and dropped a toggle. I don't wanna be a pussy, but just take your time - me too :). I think hook turns can be done safely, but think about 500 - 1,000 jumps or more. Get a coach too. Be safe bro..... :)

If you ween't so busy looking for a reason to hate me you would have seen this: "I don't characterize Bush's service (or lack thereof) as typical military service. Right now, with the backdoor draft, Bush is sacrificing guard and reserve members at a much higher rate than he is full-time members. I served 1 term in the AF, so I am not anti-military or anti-guard/reserve, and after what's going on in Iraq now now I'm not even anti-dodge drafter anymore." Right, Guard and reserve members are dying at a higher rate than are full-timers, so I am paying respect to them for their greater risk at the ultimate sacrifice. Look, either you're a Bushanite or you support terrorism as per the conservative doctrine. Truth is, I'm neither and actually served a term in the service and can appreciate the hero's over there now. I wasn't faced with war when I was in in the early 80's, but my service qualifies me to be critical if I wish. Again, not critical of the Guard or Reserve and you know it. I apologize that my political preference doesn't parallel yours..... wait, no I don't :)

Different countries, different interpretations of hand signals. Isn't it in the U.S. where your questions in a presidential debate have to be approved in advance and if you alter by even just 1 word, your microphone gets shut down? Right, or if you wear an anti-_ _ _ _ teeshirt you get yanked out of line and arrested.

No he isn't, I dodged the draft instead going over and fighting. Signed, George W. Bush Since when is joining the National Guard, dodging the draft? Do you understand how this is an insult to all who have served their country in the National Guard? You take the reply one-dimensionally. Bush dodged the draft by getting daddy and his influential friends to enable him not to go to VN. Then, Bush had political asperations instead of military ones, so he just quit going. I don't characterize Bush's service (or lack thereof) as typical military service. Right now, with the backdoor draft, Bush is sacrificing guard and reserve members at a much higher rate than he is full-time members. I served 1 term in the AF, so I am not anti-military or anti-guard/reserve, and after what's going on in Iraq now now I'm not even anti-dodge drafter anymore. It was a semi-kidding parody to describe Bush's military service including getting 1 million dollars free fighter training while never having to have the possibility to actually be in harm's way. Bush was as big a military asset as was Clinton. DID YOU KNOW: Bush is the only president in US history that had a military background whatsoever to not voluntarily post his military record in its entirety at or before he entered office? Bush finally posted a half-baked version full of omisions at the end of his first term after considerable controversy...... I think you know I wasn't even insulting the guard or reserve.

No he isn't, I dodged the draft instead going over and fighting. Signed, George W. Bush

Well, we're supposed to learn what to do as well as what not to do, so maybe the purpose of this is thread is to teach all the low-timers like me and others not to hook turn. There is so much to learn about this sport that progressing at 100 jumps is foolish. I think it's even foolish for someone @300 jumps like me to venture into it. Some would say it's foolish to do at all.