EBSB52

Do you feel good about the USA being among the tiny group of countries that executes juveniles? Do you feel really good about the company you're in? When was the last execution in Israel? The others you mention all have authoritarian governments (but we're getting there fast). First off, I didn't look for any link to juvenile executions, so I can't speak for that part of it. If they are judged competent to stand trial, they should be eligible for the same punishments as anyone else. If that be death, so be it. I've found information online that shows that in the last (roughly) 30 years, the U.S. has sentenced to death 22 individuals that were between 16 and 17 years old at the time of their crimes. None of the criminals were younger than 23 at the time of death. If you have information that someone younger than 18 has been executed please let me know. Note: The Supreme Court has stated that the death sentence is applicable for the ages of 16 and 17. Countries that execute juveniles: Communist China Iran Congo Nigeria Pakistan Saudi Arabia Yemen USA Good company, isn't it. Communist China Iran Congo Nigeria Pakistan Saudi Arabia Yemen USA The very countries we denounce, we emulate. Can you say...... hypocrite?

Do you feel good about the USA being among the tiny group of countries that executes juveniles? Do you feel really good about the company you're in? When was the last execution in Israel? The others you mention all have authoritarian governments (but we're getting there fast). First off, I didn't look for any link to juvenile executions, so I can't speak for that part of it. If they are judged competent to stand trial, they should be eligible for the same punishments as anyone else. If that be death, so be it. I've found information online that shows that in the last (roughly) 30 years, the U.S. has sentenced to death 22 individuals that were between 16 and 17 years old at the time of their crimes. None of the criminals were younger than 23 at the time of death. If you have information that someone younger than 18 has been executed please let me know. Note: The Supreme Court has stated that the death sentence is applicable for the ages of 16 and 17. 16 and 17 correct. As for executed after the age of 18, of course. The term, "Executing juveniles" means people were juveniles at the time of the commission of their crime. It still is executing kids when you hold accountable to CP people for crimes committed when they were kids. Here's a cute little note that you'll like. In AZ, children can be, by statute, transferred to adult court at the age of 8, hence sentenced to life at that point. Not saying they do it, just that the laws are there. 5 years from puberty and treated as adults..... pardon me, I need to go buy some American flags....

An open mind is a great thing. Good for you. I entered college/univ in 96 a card-carrying member of the Repug Party, pro-death pen, all that...... I was educated out of ignorane. I had a professor that witnesses an execution and related all the events. Basically no last words, no diginity. There are litterally thousands of innocent people in jails/prisons. What the neo-con right does is to avoid facts, that way they can justify their positions.

Nie analogy

DNA is not really taken as sole link of evidence. DNA is typically not the only facet of evidence of a crime. If it was, OJ would have been found guilty. But that glove was 'planted', remember? Again, are you joking? Many big trials end with convictions w/o DNA, but when DNA is introduced juries go haywire for the prosecution. As for OJ, first he was a celeb, second the DNA evidence had been lost and unnacounted for, so that was the defenses claim that won them the exoneration.

Actually Taiwan is under the control of China now. We tried to intervein a few years back, but they said to STFU, and we wisely acquiesced. Japan is one of the FEW countries worse than we are.

"Elswhere on the site you can find this heart warming quote: "Only seven countries practice the death penalty for juveniles, that is criminals aged under 18 at the time of their crime. Nearly all actual executions for juvenile crime take place in the USA"" Hmmm, think I'll move ot China so I can enjoy more human rights.....

And every other democratic nation. Why is it that we are the only free nation that executes criminals? And why is it that most other countries, even 'evil' ones don't execute kids? We do..... real bragging rights there.....

Obviously, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. That it is the decision of the individual state as to whether or not to make the criminal pay for his or her crimes with their life. "Obviously, the U.S. Justice system is different than Germany's. And again, obviously, we differ in opinion as to which is best." Sorry about this, but most of teh rest of the industrialized world is the opposite of the US. I must be that they're wrong and we're right.... Hmmmm, I wonder if Nazi Germany felt the same kind of isolationism before the allieds kicked their ass????? Hmmmm, just food for thought.

No, it's the fact that I feel that a murderer has forfeited their right to live, except at the pleasure of the state. "Do you feel satisfaction that a person that has murdered their spouse and children in cold blood is still alive?" You're missing the boat; most death penalty opponents are all for the killing of the Ted Bundy's, John Wayne Gaceys' and all other bastards like that. What hey are wise enough to realize and admit is that there are innocent people convicted and executed and that in order to maintain a system that kills Ted Bundy, we must also maintain the system that kills Ray Krone. Before you talk abiut his exoneration, remember that his family spent over 300k on his freedom. Most convictees either don't have the capital or family.

Tasteless. I am also guilty of not always being the politically-correct type, but this comment is not very funny. You seem to be having morbid fun with the thought that a human (guilty of a horrific crime, but still human after all) is being put to death. Or is it just that eye-for-an-eye tastes so sweet for some people? This is the typical mentality of the American conservative. We've had a few pm discussions, hence, this is why I want out. It will be fun, one day, to watch from afar the US perpetuate its intra-division like some runaway Nazi train from hell. I love the US, but it's time to go....

If there is new evidence, then I'm all for the stay. What chaps my ass is the appeal after appeal after appeal, when there is no new evidence or no changes in evidence.... (the above does not include the automatic appeal in death penalty cases) in reply to a post above, about the death penalty being no deterrent: 1. Rehabilitation through reincarnation 2. It damn sure cuts way down on the recidivism rates... "What chaps my ass is the appeal after appeal after appeal, when there is no new evidence or no changes in evidence...." So what aboutthe Ray Krone story; does that chap your ass too? Or would he have been part of the negligible number of murders of innocent people the death penalty produces - in the name of trying to eliminate/deter murder? Let's see...... he spent 10 years (2 on death row) in prison for a crime that he di not commit. 2 brilliant juries convicted him during this time. With your abreviated appellate process, he would have been murdered by the state long ago; so how does the abreviation of appeals create less crime or how is it a positive thing at all? http://www.innocenceproject.org/case/display_profile.php?id=105 I'm sure you'll, "look into this" too, as you have promised to do in the past. Not trying to start crap, I answer your statements/questions, please answer mine. Truth is, without misdirection or ignoring the truth, it is real hard to support the neo-conservative agenda w/o sounding like Hiltler, who by the way, was also elected. "Krone won a new trial on appeal in 1996, but was convicted again, mainly on the state's supposed expert bite-mark testimony. This time, however, the judge sentenced him to life in prison, citing doubts about whether or not Krone was the true killer." And the liberal have activist judges? Hell, the judge, who was likley conservative as most trial judges, had teh ability to throw out the conviction, but did not. "Prior to his arrest, Krone had no previous criminal record, had been honorably discharged from the military, and had worked in the postal service for seven years." Listen, my conservative skydiving friend, YOU can be convicted of murder while sleeping at home too; quit calling for the murder of people, some of whom are innocent, or you, your friends or your family could be next. "in reply to a post above, about the death penalty being no deterrent:" This is a very layman's approach to deterence. In order for the element of deterrence to even be an issue, the ability of choice must be present. People in jail are without choice, for the most part. As for recicivism goes, they are already in prison for life, so the prospect of returning to prison is moot.

"2. It's not a deterrant. Nobody commits a crime when they think they're going to get caught." Or...... they don't care if they're caught. Please, someone tell me of a case where a person moved to Wisconsin, or one of our 13 states that no longer have cap pun, where a person moved there solely to murder because they wanted to avoid the death penalty? Cap pun is revenge, Old Testament Retribution, call it what you want, but it is in no way deterrence. "4. It's more expensive than just keeping someone in jail. To really be certain (and even then you can't be certain), we have to allow the appeals process, and death penalty appeals are very pricey. Lock em up and throw away the key. The counter to this is that we should do away with appeals. Just think of the murder rate of the gov then.... I like how you think

Let her fry. All these stays of execution do is cost the taxpayer gobs of money. That is what the appeal process is for throughout the entire course of their imprisonment. If she hasnt been found innocent by now then quit coming up with excuses just to keep her alive. Why wait until the last minute to try and prove innocence? what the hell are these attornies doing the entire time these people are locked up? If they cant find anything over the course of X number of years then they sure as hell arent going to find anything in 120 days. They sure did in Illinois. Right, and Gov Ryan was slammed over it, even though there were I think 4 clear cases of misconduct. How can it be that American are appauled when they hear of violence when we corner the market of it and hide behind this concept of democracy and justice?

Are you joking? Don't you think DNA can be planted very easily? Just because the DNA matches...... that means - the DNA matches. This death penalty argument is circular in that you can never be absolutely sure of all executions. Most people in jail and on death row are guilty, but our system is supposedly different in that it protects the minoroty - supposedly.

Right, which is why virtually all of the industrialized freeworld have repealed all cap pun laws. The US even executes people that are convicted of 1st degree murder when the conviction stemmed from a crime that occurred when they were a minor at 16 or 17. This puts us in very small company. There is no way to be certain or even think there is a very good chance of executing people without knowing that innocent people will be executed. Look at the Ray Crone story - 2 years on death row, 8 more after a 2nd trial and 2nd conviction from idiots in a jury.... a judge finally exonerated him by way of evidence.

I've read stories where drunk people broke into houses that were not theirs and got themselves shot by the homeowners who justifiably feared for their lives, and then we find out that the drunk moron just mistakenly thought he was at his own house. What I'm saying has nothing to do with the reasons shots were fired, but it has much to do with who initiated the sequence of events that led to a problem arising. If this guy had not been such a fuckup and had not, either deliberately or mistakenly, put himself in someone else's tree stand on someone else's property, by being responsibile and competent, this probably would not have happened -- unless, of course, he DID plan to shoot a bunch of hunters. Start watching for the PETA ties to this piece of shit. Maybe they're recruiting people even more psychotic, arming them, and send them afield to kill those who kill deer... -Jeffrey Hey, (not so) peacefuljeffrey, get help!!! ". If this guy had not been such a fuckup and had not, either deliberately or mistakenly, put himself in someone else's tree stand on someone else's property, by being responsibile and competent, this probably would not have happened." That reminds me of Mexican law (policy) that states if you are a foreigner in Mexico with your car and it is parked, a Mexican-National runs into it, it is your fault. The reason is is that if you were not in their country this wouldnot have happened - hence, your fault. Isn't this the same kind of logic you're using here? I don't know what happened, nor do I really care so much, but you can't shoot people for occupying your area. Well, unless you're a cop, but that goes without saying. You can't legally place bombs around your property, even though it is on your property. Sorry, turn the calendar from the 19th century.

"No, Bills gripe was this guy doing his job and keeping a company above water." That's fine, but my gripe, which contributes to all this glee, is that the offloading of jobs is largely at the crux of the domestic employment woes in the US for the last 20 years or so. "So, you would rather companies go bankrupt? You think all business people are greedy scumbags? Let me guess...Democrat, and you voted for Kerry?" Yes. Genrally most business owners/CEO's are profit-seeking scum. Wanna tell me about the post 9/11 bailout where taxpayers gave 100's of millions to airlines to keep them afloat, then the airlines laid people off. The idea was to keep the people employed and company solvent - Fascism kids, that's why there weren't strings attached to that money where the gov said 'take the money - keep the people employed.' As for Dem and all the rest of your garbled guess in the dark. I registered in AZ in 94 as a Repugnican, voted Dole in 96 (don't aske me why), got an education and now generally vote Dem. Am I a flaming liberal? No. I'm pro-gun and am not hard leaning left, but I am left of center. Let me make an equally stupid generalization of you..... naw, I'm not about that.....

No- that was due to the Reagan - Bush (41) deficit. Once we got in surplus it went up. Now we're in deficit it goes down again. Simple economics. This time even Greenspan's worried. money.cnn.com/2004/11/19/news/economy/fed_greenspan/ Wow... so let me make sure I have this straight: A slump in the economy in the middle of Clinton's second term was the fault of the two preceeding Presidents.... ....but a slump that started before GW's FIRST term is all GW's fault? Ok, thanks for LE 101 (Liberal Economics) Hardly middle of second term, more likely the last 6 months. "....but a slump that started before GW's FIRST term is all GW's fault?" How about giving away the surplus to throw the country into a recession when it was operating much better with a surplus? How about cutting unemployment benefit extensions when the working people were hurting? That shows compassion for the corps, none for the people.

Flying a Raven-M at 1.34 being used to 1.12. Ok, so is this more misdirection, counselor?

This goes beyond the individual business, it's about the gov offloading jobs via Bush so things get more lean at home. BTW, I would rather companies go bankrupt, turn their assets over to their creditors and teh gov, and let the gov handle things than some greedy, corrupt corporate scumbag.

Maybe we're looking at the same thing from different angles. While there are some lost jobs at Kellogg immediately, the company became more competitive. It seems that you value jobs in the present rather than a stronger company in the future. But, I'm not sure how that translates into his new position or why US factory workers as a whole need luck. This explains volumes: Location: North America/United States/Florida City: Palm Beach Gardens Occupation: lawyer

America has become more and more Fascist because of attitudes and gov/corp actions like this. I wonder what the gov/elite think the millions of out of work workers are going to do when there are no manuf jobs here, just enough service jobs to employ a small percentage of the people? Do they think we will go and dies quietly in the streets after liquidating our assets? This is exactly why I'm working on getting out of the US and have been for a while. Other than Mexican immigration I think you will see immigration from Europe and other countries steeply decline.

Um, ya whatever; more naked chick pics - less of this negativity

An exception to that rule is with student gear when you are a student at that school. I had a cutaway on my 4th solo, I was high and way out, so the main ended up at least 2 miles away - we never found the freebag. They had to get the otter to fly around and find the main. I ended up almost to the prison, as the toggle lines were long and they did nothing with slight input, so I let the wind have me and drifted like 4 miles south. Anyway, Al Gramando was real cool about it, and I was fair too, I spent 3 hurs looking for the GD thing along with them. I was going to get my own truck the next morning out there and spend my gas loking for it if we didn't find it. We got it just before sunset. Anyway, I guess student gear is usually a bit different since they are kinda responsible for you. I had a cutaway there about a year and a half ago with my own gear - followed it down and the chop handle, which I dropped, was even near the main - how friken lucky for a 5k chop.