LuvToFly

I have found that most times the ones that are bitching for a person to get out the door are the same ones that open at or under 2K. Not everyone wants to test the envelope. Their convenience is not worth my risk. I make sure I am out and watching the previous group fall away. It helps me to judge the actual drift, windspeed, etc to know when to jump. And if someone bitches about that judgment, tough crap. It's my life (and also the person's I hit if I drop too early). To the original poster: Discourage exit counts, 45 degree rules, etc. WATCH the falling away group. See what their rate is, and make your judgment based on that. Learn to read not only the forecasted winds, but how they play out during the previous jumpers descent. Just like every landing is different because conditions are never 100% the same each time, you need to use judgment in your exit timings. If you need help with that, seek the counsel of a competent instructor. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Not the same situation at all, but nevertheless a learning experience that might be helpful: After an uneventful solo jump and freefall, did a quick barrel roll to take a peek prior to my planned and announced deployment altitude, and saw someone about 100 feet above me. This person was the solo after me, and was looking straight down at me, almost like they were trying to follow me down. I looked at my altimeter, and since I planned on pulling at about 3K, I wasn't too worried. Just tracked a bit, looked up again, then did not see 'em, pulled hackey. I looked up during deployment and I can see this person a couple of hundred feet, back in my field of view above, while my canopy is deploying! Thought I was going to feel a mass of flesh coming down through my deployed canopy - very spooky. The learning experience here is that even though you might have the right of way in terms of being lower, you simply cannot trust people not to kill you. In this case, the person clearly saw me (found that out later), and even though they were foreign and spoke little to no english, you would think they knew that following someone down past 3K who was waiving off is asking for trouble. Since that time, if I track off of a formation, I do a couple of quick barrel rolls while tracking. I've got these down very fast, but the head trails so that you can scan the sky. This gives me the look in the sky above me to see if there is anyone above - Rules are great, but I'm determined to not let anyone kill me if I can help it. I'd advise you do the same. The bottom line is not that you got bitched out - even if it was unreasonable - there are folks in every walk of life that want to shift blame if that is the case. Others have said it on here - in the end - it doesn't matter who was "right" if you don't make it back to the DZ alive. I think the more important lesson here is that YOU should do what you think you need to do to avoid such situations - check, then check again. MAJOR swivel head under canopy, up down, 360 degrees everywhere, and keep it going - no target fixation. If the area is clear around you, make a slight turn so that you can see the airspace that was previously obscured above you by your canopy. Make sure you have a cushion of clearance from other folks. I've seen someone come right towards me at about 200-300 feet while I was 90 degrees to landing approach (where final was to my left), and had to quickly get right. I did not see them move, and was convinced they never even saw me (under a big-assed, bright, slow canopy too!) as I was so close I could see them looking hard towards the right (towards the landing "X"). This was a very experienced jumper - but it did not mean squat in this instance. Remember, a lot of these canopy collision deaths seem to take place a pitiful

Okay, here's the line up - Cocoa Puffs - because gotta have chocolate Oatmeal Raisin Crisp - Have you tried 'em? Cocoa Crispies or Cocoa Pebbles - Actually, Cocoa Pebbles are preferred since they have kind of a fake vanilla undertone flavor mixed in with the artificial chocolate. Ummmmmmm! "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Slower reaction times from even smaller amounts of alcohol have been proven in many studies on the subject. I can't believe that any one actually wants to be in the sky next to someone whose reactions are not are sharp as they should be - The issue is one of intoxication - It's not about who wants what in a particular world, or not. TR, if all that was affected by someone's judgement being impaired through hangover was them putting themselves at jeopardy, that would be one thing. But the fact is impaired skydivers put everyone around them at risk - just like impaired drivers behind the wheel put everyone on the road at risk. It's almost stupid how some folks will keep a newbie off a bigway, but anxiously invite a still-drunk buddy to join in, believing that - THAT is safe?? I think it sucks that such a cool sport is so f***ed up with people getting so wasted till the wee hours before they jump. I don't want to be in the same sky with 'em - just like you don't want to be in the same car with 'em - they're messing with your longevity, and that really sucks when you are the sober one - No offense to either you or Greene intended. Just don't see how anyone can ever defend getting wasted before such a dangerous sport. In an FAA matter, you'd have your license taken away without waiting the prescribed amount of hours before "piloting" and or carrying a drunk passenger for that matter. The real falacy is folks in the skydiving community thinking that this applies any less to them and their sport as it does to aviation in general. Hey, we are all pilots under canopy. And pilots should not be impaired - Any statements that suggest skydiving and drinking are inseparable are false. And that means that one does not HAVE to expect that in this sport - My bottom line: Skydiving is so friggin awesome, and it's such an unbelievable privilege to be able to have the money, health, time, intelligence, and whatever to do it, that skydiving itself and the camaraderie at hand is all I need to be estatically happy about participating. I feel sorry for anyone that needs to enhance the experience further through any kind of substance. It's absolutely terrific sober - in the day, and in the night just thinking about the fact you have been given the privilege to skydive - I mean, that's enough, isn't it?? Hate to burst the bubble, but drinking is not about skydiving, and skydiving is not about drinking. The two are separate, regardless of beer lights. You can completely enjoy skydiving without ever having a drink, and if a person can't, all I can offer is sympathy. The beer light means soda or even water to many, and some have chimed in on this thread. Skydiving does not evoke a need to drink. A desire to drink is what really evokes a need to drink, and in that context any occasion serves as a ready platform. Evelyn, do not accept the notion that you must participate in one to have the other - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Here's the deal: Human beings have an aversion to the injured. It's programmed into our genes. Except the "injured" in ancient times might have been leprosy, the plaque, etc. The human survival psyche is taxed when facing the reality of another person's infirmity. Now before folks start jumpin' in talking about how having someone else hurt brings out the best of themselves, causes them to want to care for that person, I believe you. It's true - but it goes against programming. When people distance themselves from any of you when you are injured, it's very possible that they are very uncomfortable with what's happened to you, and they don't want to face it - at least not for any extended period of time. It reminds them that there for the grace of God, go I.. Meaning, "this could be me lying there!!" And not everyone is okay with thinking about that - let alone seeing the resulting debilitating effects of the injury. In some ways, it is about self-preservation. To learn to care about people beyond these feelings and get past them involves a real commitment that some have aptly termed love, and not everyone gets that, or even wants to get that - So try not to personalize these actions. I don't believe it has to do with you at all - it has more to do with other people's (in)ability to endure your pain, and not be frightened off in the process. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Wise decision, in more ways than you may know. I firmly believe the "spark" is not only what makes you want to get back in the air, but it also serves to increase your safety. This means, that if you have a real passion, a real enthusiasm, a real unquenchable thirst for skydiving, you are apt to study, get tips from others, practice your moves, study some more - and all not because you have to - but because you want to. The more you know, the more you practice, and the more you study, the more equipped you'll be to handle situations that come your way - which is another way of saying more safety-minded. But the second thing that the spark does is to keep you on your toes. It's not just what you know, but how you execute it when called on. When you are really into something, your senses are alert and keenly focused. On the other hand, complacency kills. Good call all the way around. I would never pursue skydiving unless you had that fire in your belly about it - Just don't think it is one of those things you can be half-hearted about - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Congrat's for sticking with the sport! I do have to say, the Dad thing is pretty cool too. Wish I could jump with my dad. He'd never go for it - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Melissa, I hear ya' and understand your passion for the sport. Just a few words of advice. Take them for what they're worth. I mention these things because you really seem to miss the sport, and something in your comment hit home. You would not be the first person to say that you are going to sacrifice now, in order to have good things later. The thing is, there is not always a later. I have had friends and acquaintances that told me the same thing, then passed away (not from skydiving). They were always talking about how good life was going to be when they retired, got done school, made $100,000 a year, you fill in the blanks. Then, a car accident, an illness, changed all that seemingly overnight. What I am saying is that you have absolutely no guarantee whatsover that you will even still be here tomorrow morning. As a future doctor, that probably hits home. So what I AM saying? If it means that much to you, find a way to jump - keep your foot in the door as if it was your only chance to do so - because all of one's plans can come unraveled in an instant. I've seen it happen, and for me, at least, it has really taught me to live in this very moment, and not assume I will have the next one. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Dave, I think I know what happened: In a Discovery channel special they were trying to unravel the mystery of the Burmuda triangle. The best guess - one which would certainly account for it, is that some kind of gas is escaping from the bottom of the ocean in that area. It was tested and proven, that a gas (such as methane), in sufficent saturation, would cause a plane (or a parachute in this case) to lose lift. So in this case, the reason why you went in is this: If F x I is greater than HT, the result with be LDA Where: F = Farts I = Intensity of the fart HT = Human Tolerance L = Lower D = Density A = Air By landing in the same place all day while farting, you basically saturated the area with methane, setting up a situation where you created thinner air, hence loss of life.. er.. I mean lift. Glad to hear no serious injury. Heard that the tailbone is a bitch when broken - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Um, are you by any chance eating that with some fava beans and a nice Chianti? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Sometimes, people are so caught up with their lives that there are things that just don't register! I would remind them about the debt. Some folks aren't really trying to stiff you ... they're just walking around in their own little world and they have filed the debt somewhere in the backbrain. Not an excuse, of course for such an important event - but I know folks that need to be reminded sometimes.. Then, they really do come through - usually with apologies. It's like they are glad you tagged them because if not, they'll remember one day and feel like crap... Edited: Oops, spelling. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

"That's the last time we let that ground-sniffing, lamer-lemur order the wingsuits. I can't believe that the four of us just fell straight down on our arses" "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

The Poo thing works every time - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

It's an old joke, that may be why - See this link>> Hillary Crash "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

I think it works the other way around. The hairy guy taking the dump could see out, but you can not see the hairy guy sitting on the throne from the outside. One-way glass - I think the question is could you use the toilet there with everyone in plain view walking past you on the street - maybe some fixing their hair in the mirror, etc.. It would be kind of weird as it would look like clear glass to the occupant, and it might be difficult for one's mind to process that people were not actually looking in - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Good luck to you! "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

The real problem is there is no packing course. I had to teach myself. I've even got that double vertical fold in the back of table-stacked long sleeve shirts down to a science and can shake em' out, yet fold 'em back up so quickly, that thought about have a fold-off contest with the indian guy that works at the J.C Penny. Yes, fairly useless, unmarketable skill, but still, I kick shirt folding a**.

Whoa! And only a $30,000 fine??? Glad it was not a DZ.commer on trial for those crimes. They'd double the sentence, and up the fine, with the judge's written opinion on the case making some vague reference to, well, here's an extract: "and furthmore, being that these "skydivers" as they call themselves, are not of sound mind, they should get their ARS kicked anyway. As responsible citizens, it's the least we can do to stem the blatent disregard for the laws of nature, and to keep the tide of these meat-missiles in check." His honorable judge, M.A. Whuffo "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Line from Austin Powers: "He's never going to be the 'head' of a major corporation." "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Whoa, the Methane did not take too kindly? What's the world coming to when even Methane is getting pissed off?? (Okay, bad pun) "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Okay, not quite what you were looking for, but a facility I regularly use for flying is www.AirNav.com. They don't really have pics of dropzone, but they do have photos of the airports, runways, etc. If nothing else, it helps me to get oriented to the DZ to understand the general layout - especially if going to be flying in - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

That does kind of suck. No one wants to be left hangin' like that. I think they do it on purpose just to mess with ya' "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

When you think about it, particularly for a woman, skydiving can be like a famous actress. You get a lot of attention since the sport has so many more men to women. Not everyone is okay with that. Not everyone can be with someone "famous." If your SO knows anything about the sport, he knows about all those hungry wolves - but he also knows about the drinking that goes on after the last load - and as the inhibitions go out the window, sometimes good judgement does as well. I think what I am saying here is that when you embrace Skydiving as you say you have, it's like you leave your SO to go "on location" where you have a whole different set of friends, priorities, activities, and attention to boot. Very few people can understand that in my view - and be okay with it. Even if you try to find that balance, let's face it, you live in a different world than they do - you even have a different vocabulary when you are talking to a non whuffo on the phone, etc. It's the very confident person who does not feel like you are living a separate life from them. Being an actor, traveling sales person, hopping between continents for your job - and indeed being a skydiver with a non-skydiving SO does not have a sterling reputation for long term relationship bliss. It is possible to make it work, and there are examples, but they are not in the majority - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Tried that - but it didn't work - Lots of them would go for the bait, but there were so many that the others would just keep bitin' ya. My solution was to feed them, but feed them crap. Potato chips, greasy donuts, things with lots of saturated fat and preservatives. I figured, hey, no one would ever know I took the fish out - would just attribute it to teenage fish eating too much junk with their friends "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

That's pretty neat, but not as cool as the plane I fly "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky