jakee

If He's forgiving an offense, then naturally He cares, otherwise there would be no offense to forgive in the first place. But first, simply existing is an offense that needs forgiving, right? Fallen world and all that. Second, any offense from spending your entire life doing charitable work with the clergy, to being a mass murderer, is forgiven just as easily by the same method. So in what way does he care what you do after you've been instantly condemned by being born? Evidence to who? God can see people thoughts, right? So he'll know if someone genuinely believes regardless of what they do. The person in question will know if they genuinely believe. The only person who would have to look at deeds to judge if someone really believes is you. And I was under the impression that a) you weren't supposed to do that and b) your opinion doesn't matter. Eh? Operative word 'may'. But they may not. And it doesn't matter, they're saved anyway. Right? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Yeah I get it, Q makes you feel all important like a musketeer. But why do you think anything he says is real? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

What? So? Then do they really mean anything? So Q can never be wrong? How convenient How do you know that what you think that means is what it really means? How d you know that it's not disinformation? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

In every post you've made so far? Again, you said the bible doesn't tell people what's objectively right or wrong, and moral behaviour has no impact on salvation. So in what way does god care what you do? It really sucks that you have to use another terrible analogy? Yeah, I agree with you there. When your parents can't tell you what to do anymore, it's because they can't tell you what to do anymore. God could tell people what to do, but he doesn't. He could make it so there are major consequences for evil behaviour, but he doesn't. So he doesn't care. Lots of parents don't welcome their kids back into their homes when they've done extremely bad things. The vast majority of families would have a line in the sand. You haven't said it's wrong either - and you have said that nothing bad will happen to you, no matter what you do that you think the bible justifies. You haven't mentioned any measure of the validity of belief. You have specifically denied that good behaviour has anything to do with redemption though. What attempt to tie you in knots? I accepted your initial explanations, and said so. It's only now that you're trying to backtrack that I have more questions. Is that more inline with the "fruit of the spirit" that I've already mentioned or is it more inline with "the acts of the flesh," specifically, the lack of self control? See what I mean? I have no idea what you mean. What happens to you if you believe in Jesus as your saviour but still lack self control? Absolutely nothing, right? I mean, even your analogy says so, there are no penalties. If there were no rules against flooring it through an intersection then why wouldn't they do it? So in other words you do have a strictly moralistic view of the afterlife? So, what's the justification for having belief as the boundary for entrance? Because usually the answer is that to God we're all sinners, that the least bad thought is the same as murder and therefore it's impossible to judge the moral balance of our lives. But from what you say above it is possible to judge the moral balance of your life. So why accept the Christian serial killer and condemn the Islamic social worker? But again, you specifically said that behaviour has nothing to do with being saved. Do you think people can't tell whether they believe in Jesus or not? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

It was Airdvr that started talking about intelligence, and pretty much everyone has aready told him he was wrong. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Exactly, the only thing he wants from you is belief, and he doesn't care what else you do. Where does it say that? You just said that, didn't you? First you said that no-one knows what the bible, and therefore god, tells you to do. Then you said the only thing that makes any difference to salvation is belief. So if god doesn't tell you what's moral, and god's only criteria for saving people has nothing to do with trying to be moral, then how can you say that god cares about morality? Damn dude, you were so close to being the only intellectually honest religious person I'd ever talked to, then ya blew it. If you think you're going to be saved in the afterlife regardless, why wouldn't you floor it through every intersection if that's what you felt like doing? Assuming you've accepted redemption through jesus, what consequences? But it doesn't actually matter whether or not they do that. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Yeah, exactly. Right, and so there is no morality involved in your belief system. It makes sense. Actually, your morality is not involved in our Christian belief system. And neither is yours, is what you're saying, right? At least, God doesn't require you to be moral or care if you are moral. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Duh. Because anything that could possibly happen can be made part of the plan. After it happens. To counter an investigation into the actions of private individuals? Isn't that a grossly innapropriate use of government resources? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Yeah, exactly. Right, and so there is no morality involved in your belief system. It makes sense. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

No, I'm not asking for scientific proof. I'm asking how you're sure the soul is a biblical conceot when you think the bible could say everything or nothing, and no-one knows what any part of it means. Exactly, the only thing he wants from you is belief, and he doesn't care what else you do. Again, it's refreshing to hear someone admit that their religion is fundamentally amoral. You don't often get that kind of consistency. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

That's exactly what they're suggesting, that in the eyes of god it's ok. So what? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

If you agree with motionscribe that christianity has no connection with morality that's cool. Seems very strange to me, but at least it's a consistent point of view. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Because it fits the Republican party narrative, and they know most of their supporters will believe the accusation and ignore the denial. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Yeah, what is it with these guys who can't accept a result? https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republican-young-kim-loses-lead-in-california-house-race-accuses-opponent-gil-cisneros-of-harassing-vote-counters Do you want to have an ideagasm?

It is what it is. One will most likely find new insight and modify their beliefs as they read beyond john 3:16 (or wherever else they started) and apply biblical principles to their life. Although you just said those biblical principles could be anything, and may well have nothing whatsoever to do with what god may or may not want people to do? I might end up being a christian in the army? I think both those ships have sailed, to be honest. Because it would by definition be infinitely more important than a temporal existence. By extension, it then wouldn't be worth contravening any biblical instructions on how to behave (personally I thought the 'don't kill people' thing was pretty clear, but obviously you disagree) even if you, you family or your country are in danger. so god doesn't care what people do, and you could be a soldier, a social worker or a serial killer and it makes no difference? Cool, that makes sense. It seems morally perverse, but it is consistent and I appreciate that. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Then how come everything you said after this is stuff you hadn't said yet? How is it a process if there isn't even anything to tell you what the process is? Huh? If I didn't want to find out I wouldn't be asking the question. What could possibly be bad about finding out? How do you know there's any such thing as a saved soul? So now you do know what scripture really says? Cool, could you go back and re-answer the earlier questions? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You said you don't pretend to know what other people think. (Right before telling me what someone else thinks). I was asking what you think. i got the impression that you were a Christian. So what's the point? Because if someone truly believes in a soul, and heaven, and that eternal life is more important than this existence, then it follows that obeying biblical commands not to kill people is more important than protecting anyone or any country in this reality. Why would you jeopardise your immortal soul to save a fallen colleague in a fallen world? No-one told me about the bit where Jesus said "Turn the other cheek, unless you're in a uniform." Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Classy. Care to explain? Because that's a complete non-sequitur from the rest of your post. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

it looks like you are saying that if someone has different positions on issues than you you assume they are stupid. That's an unwarranted blanket statement. Sometimes people say things which are stupid, and suggest courses of action which are stupid. Pointing out the stupid things things people say does not for a second equate to assuming everything one disagrees with is stupid. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You view him as your counsellor? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You're not stupid. You just choose not to think. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

No one here is doing that. You're arguing against your own strawman. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Trump isn't a conservative Republican and has shown no inclination to reduce spending. On the contrary, he wants to increase spending. So why do you support him? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Oh Ron. You're always so keen on saying that liberals behave like adolescents and then you come out with stuff like this. The only people I know who can be forgiven for basing their decisions only on what they're angry about and afraid of are toddlers. And you know what, even then their parents try and teach them to be better Do you want to have an ideagasm?

No it isn't. I'll demonstrate that by addressing the next thing you said Ya, especially after they lost their jobs, homes and healthcare as they've known it. That shit was real, not some bullshit lie Trump put into their head. There you go. Nothing to do with how good the Dems campaign was. Nothing to do with whether the Dems talked about the issues these people care about. Nothing to do with party unity. Like what? Without an example that question is impossible. I will say that as far as I can see Trump's campaign was quite clearly the most dishonest I've ever seen, by a distance. To say otherwise is nothing but one-eyed partisanship. Let me ask you this: if the next election involves two people both talking like Trump - lying, making things up, proposing impossible policies, constantly mocking opponents and threatening opposing activists with violence - do you think that would represent a decline in the standards of American politics, or would it be no better or worse than any campaign before it? Do you want to have an ideagasm?