steve1

Quote[I don't exceed the recommended maximum load. When developing a load, I start low, and work my way up, producing cases in batches of five, in half-grain increments. I write the charge weight on the cases with magic marker. Then I go test shoot, starting with the lowest charges, and working my way up. I watch for signs of over-pressure, and for when I find a load that has a sweet spot with the tightest groups. If I start seeing flattened primers or something, reply] Actually I do the same when working up on my loads, watching for pressure signs. I've never gone over the maximum load recommended in my loading books. I strive to find the most accurate load. It's funny, but the most accurate load in my two 270's, 30/06, 300 Win., and 22-250. are right at the maximum recommended. Probably the greatest accuracy tip that I've found so far is having the bullets almost touch the lands of the rifling. It's amazing how much tighter my groups are by doing this. This can also increase pressure though. You also have to be careful, because if they are too long they won't chamber. And if they are touching the lands this can dramatically increase pressure. On my Remington rifles the bullets are sticking out almost too far to come close to the lands. Theres just not much case gripping the bullet. I had a batch that were too long and I started having the bullet stick in the chamber when I opened the bolt. This can ruin a hunt in a hurry if you don't have a cleaning rod to get that bullet out. I've since started using a bullet crimper on that rifles ammo, and have backed off on the distance from bullet to lands. On one hunt I was just about to peek over a ridge to shoot at an antelope I was stalking. I openned the bolt to double check to see if the round was chambered. Luckily the barrel was pointing up because when I openned the bolt, there was the case with no bullet on it. The powder didn't spill out since it was pointing up. I closed the bolt and was still able to shoot the antelope. I can't recall how I got my 4064 powder mixed up with my 4831. I think it was in my powder measure and not marked. That's definitely a no no. I think reloading is kind of like skydiving. It's easy to get over confident and forget about safety procedures. If you do it long enough it can bite you in the rear....Steve1

I haven't heard the "shock waves" thing, but underloading rifle cases is not a good idea. If the powder doesn't fill the case, then when the cartridge is laid down horizontally in the chamber to fire it, the powder can spread out on the bottom half of the case. Thus, when the primer fires, the flash spreads over the entire surface area of the available powder, igniting it all at once across the lengthwise cross- section, instead of burning from one end to the other as usual. This effect can actually cause a pressure spike that is greater than a case with much more powder in it. That's my understanding. reply] I couldn't recall the correct term for all this. But you explained it perfectly. I too have a little collection of what can happen when a reload goes bad. I have a tendency to load them borderline too hot. I sometimes have to throw the brass out after only a few firings. Probably one of the stupidest thing I've done to date, was to load up a couple boxes using 4064 powder instead of 4831. Ended up with a face full of hot gas on the first one I fired. Of course I wasn't wearing any shooting glasses. I guess I was lucky to walk away from that one with my handsome mug and baby blue eyes still in tack. I had to use my shooting bench to force the bolt open. It was froze shut. This tore the base off of the case and a gun-smith had to get the rest of the case out of the chamber. Luckily there was no serious damage to one of my pet rifles. I ended up using a bullet puller on several boxes just to make sure I got all of them that were way too hot. If there is a wrong way to do something, I'll usually end up doing it....Steve1

Quote You're wrong on this. You are correct that you don't know this subject. /reply] That could be true. Whatever I know about silencers I was taught in S.F. weapons training 30 years ago. We were told that to silence a round it must be sub-sonic. Maybe that is crap. Maybe it was only true for the silencers they had then, or maybe our instructor was just full of it. This isn't the first time I was lied to in the army.

I wish I could have met Bobby. He sounds like a great person and a real credit to our sport. Sorry for your loss!....Steve1

I got some training in this back in 1970. During that time period there was a big problem with enemy snipers in Vietnam. After hearing the crack of the bullet you could count seconds. By figuring distance and direction from your position you could call in a fire mission to blow up the sniper. I know John knows a lot more about this than I, but I don't believe a 22 pistol round will break the sound barrier. A high powered rifle will. That's why a silencer won't work on any weapon if the bullet is moving too fast. Most pistols and sub-machine guns can be modified to accept one. One guy tried to tell me he had a silencer on a 300 magnum. I had to laugh at that one. I don't know a whole lot about silencers but I don't think they will work except on a very slow moving bullet. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. It's been a long time since I've had training on this....Steve1

Steve, I would have given a lot to get scuba and halo school back in those days. HAHO school wasn't invented yet. But then again I was only a weekend warrior, and there wasn't much money allocated for us....Steve1

Yeigh!....Artwardo tells the best jump stories. (I already told all the scary ones that I can remember.) We need a good jump story to listen to....Steve1

I've often wondered about this. None of us like to admit that the day may come when we shouldn't be jumping. I have friends who are in their 60's and they are very confident jumpers. I think they are some of the safest jumpers out there. Their years of jumping experience is probably the reason. But just like old drivers who shouldn't be driving there are probably skydivers out there who shouldn't be jumping. I've in my mid fifties, and am noticing big changes in my physical abilities. One big change is in my reflexs and balance. They are changing big time. My vision is going down hill fast. It's no biggie though because I can wear glasses. Possibly I can't think as fast as I once did. This could be a problem, because skydiving is not meant for slow people. I was at a boogie this past summer where a really old guy was jumping. In other words he was an older fart than I am. They were doing some RW. I heard he went to take a grip and accidentally pulled another guys reserve. When he got on the ground to debrief he asked where so and so was, because he was gone most of the jump. He didn't even realize that he had pulled the guys reserve. I plan to quit jumping long before I get that bad. When I get too old, I plan to either jump by myself or ground myself. I know one old jumper, in his 70's, who always jumps alone. (probably a good idea) I imagine if a person gets too decrepited it might be hard to find a DZ that would let you jump. Most DZ's drive off anyone who is a risk factor. I remember reading someplace that, "Time is the rider that breaks youth." I guess it's something we all have to face someday. I plan on fighting it to the end though. My kids and wife sometimes kid me about sending me off to a "home" soon. But hell, I can still hold my bowels and pull a rip cord! So I'm not going yet!....Steve1

Well then I guess me and Bully are doing pretty good! Here we are today after a wednesday morning skydive durning the 8 and 10 way competition at the Nats. This pic is taken after the jump at the Ghetto in front of my place. We did a fun jump amidst all the activity there and then had beers... We both did stand up landings in 0 wind... Not bad for a couple of old guys. Heck, you guys don't look a day over thirty. Or maybe it's just trick photography. You must have really lived a clean life to look that fit and chipper!....Steve1

Skratch, Sounds like a great adventure. Keep us posted. We'd love to hear what you're up to over there....Steve1

Windy days on rounds you go backwards. Not part of the jump I relished, but I could deal with it. It was zero winds that were the problem, hence this whole discussion of forward PLFs. I remember them on rounds on nil-wind days. It sucked, big time I'd love to take an optional course at a DZ on various ways of falling forward under hairy conditions. If skydivers could take a few tips from legends like The Clawmaster, The Undertaker or Rick Flair, why not? That's a good point. I've got in the habit of sliding in some landings rather than PLFing or some type of flip. Sliding it in on uneven ground might be a recipe for injury too. So maybe I shouldn't be saying that's the best thing to do. So that has me thinking about a forward PLF. A forward PLF works great as long as there isn't a lot of speed built up. It's really hard to twist to your side fast enough to do one if you're going a 100 mph under a hot canopy on a calm day. Same thing with a rear PLF. I could never spin to my side fast enough on high wind days under a rag, so I would face slightly cross wind just so I could do a good PLF. Coming in really fast under a little canopy, may again be really hard to PLF. (I guess I finally do get the point!) So if sliding is out...maybe some type of roll could be used. I think this might be disasterous though, if done incorrectly. I'd sure hate to land, feet, face, then back. Maybe Hay Stack Calhoon could do it in the ring, but I'm not so sure an old fart like me could do it. I know on windy days (on rounds) you are supposed to be going backward on landing. When I first started jumping in the army our T-10's had no modification at all. You'd pull down on your risers and slip (very slightly) into the wind. So it was possible to have a very fast forward PLF eve if the wind was blowing hard. That is probably the reason we spent so much time learning a forward PLF in jump school.....Steve1

I know little or nothing about the rolls you describe. They may work fine if someone has enough training in them. I disagree about PLF's not being good for high speed horizontal landings. We used to jump rounds a lot on windy days. Some of those landings were in excess of twenty MPH. Knowing how to do a really good PLF is what saved me on those jumps. I wonder if new jumpers get enough training in how to do a proper PLF these days. Even new jumpers in the 70's got a minimal amount of training in PLF's. Jumping off a table a few times isn't enough. I believe the army airborne school has the best PLF training to be found anywhere. Back in the olden days they used a swing land trainer. (I think it's still used at Ft. Benning today.) After stepping off an elevated platform you would swing back and forth several times and then your instructor would drop you into the ground. You practiced this over and over from different angles. You would hit feet and knees together, twist to your side (keeping your elbows in) (chin tucked to your chest) and then flip over on the back of your shoulders. I believe this is a very valuable technique to learn. In Jump School you spend two weeks practicing these until you could do them perfect from every direction. I'd like to say I never hit my head. I remember a lot of rear PLF's where I couldn't spin to my side fast enough and did just that. Some of these landings were more feet, rear, and head landings. Noone jumped without a heavy duty helmet back then. I learned some other methods of getting to my side with more experience. But I still relied on doing a basic PLF. As far as sliding in a modern canopy, I think this works quite well. Maybe they aren't the best for all conditions but I did a lot of them this past summer. My ankle was severely messed up due to a low turn and I had a hard time walking let alone running out a landing. On windless mornings at Lost Prairie, I slid in almost every landing. Mad John was doing the same thing. (I noticed he had a limp this year too.) So again your method might work better for you, but I'm going to stick with PLF's. It's just too hard to teach an old dog new tricks....Steve1

The expense today is a big factor, but I believe that there is more to it than that. I started jumping back in the 70's when skydiving was really cheap compared to today. The gear was cheap, the training was reasonably priced, and even us poor college kids could afford to jump. But very few stuck with it. Sometimes we would have a training class of twenty or more. Out of that group there might be a few who would get as many as ten jumps. In the long run you were lucky to have one stick with it. Skydiving isn't for everyone. I saw a bumper sticker this summer. It said that most sports take one ball to play. Skydiving takes two. I agree with this particularly when you are first starting. It's not easy to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, and keep coming back for more There's also a lot of people who lose interest in the sport. The politics ruin the fun of jumping for some people. If it's not fun anymore, many decide to do something else just as challenging Hell, I quit for 25 years. Sold my rig and bought some rodeo gear I needed for riding broncs. Then I got married and quit rodeoing too. I was really broke then and was building a house. Everyone has different priorities. My family always came first for me.....Steve1

It's wierd how that sort of thing sneaks up on you. There was a couple of old farts jumping at Lost Prairie this summer. I kept thinking who are those fat, old, bespeckled, bastards. They must be really really old. And a lot older than me. Then one of them said that he was 54. That's one year younger than I am. They were probably thinking the same kind of thoughts about me....Steve1

I was away from a computer all summer. This may have been discussed already. But I'm just wondering if anyone has a theory why there were so few jumpers this year at Lost Prairie. It seemed like the numbers were about half of usual. Maybe the national TV coverage scared them off...Naw, it couldn't have been that. Price of gas...maybe. Maybe many jumpers have become "Born Again" and figured this place is way to crude, and might cause them to go to hell!......maybe, there were a lot of sinners there. I give up....it's way too abstract for my old brain to figure out....Steve1

Scratch, I was talking to B.J. Worth this summer about you and the old days. He says you might be moving to China. Any truth to that rumor?.....Steve1

Thanks for all the advice. I've learned a lot from all the great people on this forum....Steve1

QuoteAs far as Canopy Control goes,letting yourself not being able to finish our final turn is your own damn dumb ass fault.reply] I hope I never become such a hard ass in life that I would say something like this to a fellow jumper. I've participated in lot's of dangerous activities over the years, but I've never once told someone with less experience that it was his own dumb ass fault he got hurt. We all make mistakes and a low turn is an easy one to make. None of us are perfect. Ignorance and uncurrency, were factors that led up to my accident. Making a stabbing turn at the last moment was pretty stupid, but it's still done by lot's of jumpers sometimes with fatal results. I need to develop enough discipline not to do this again in the future. To tell you the truth I'm now pretty paranoid of the ground right now. I think a big cause of this accident was not realizing how slow a flat turn can be. While you are slowly coming around you could be traveling, over an area you don't want to land in. In my opinion, some of this may be hard to guage by practicing only up high. I truly think that training is needed in canopy control by a whole lot of jumpers out there. At the risk of being called a dumb ass again, I'll freely admit that I'm one of them....Steve1

I quit once for close to 25 years. For months I didn't even log my jumps. I often think about what led up to my stopping and I try hard to prevent it from happening again today. I guess it was more or less a personality conflict with some club members that led up to my bagging it the first time. I didn't think I missed it much until I made that first jump after all that time. It kind of felt like I was reborn. I was tired of settling into old age without any adventure to spice up my life, and skydiving seemed a perfect fit for what ailed me. I was BSing with an old friend the other day. He's been jumping for over 30 years and has over 7,000 jumps. At any rate, I was surprised when he said that someday he plans to walk away from the sport and do something else. It kind of hurts when a hero of mine decides to quit something that I respect him for. But I suppose that time will come to all of us someday. Jerry Bird was once one of his team mates. He said that one reason Jerry might have quit the sport was because of the lack of respect some newcomers had for old jumpers. Maybe that is his opinion, but I'm sure it could be a factor for some veterans quitting the sport. Right now, I try hard to fight off those negative thoughts that affect our sport. For me the skydiving is still fun, but it doesn't have the excitement it once had. Maybe I need to try out a Bird Man suit or just find the right drop zone to jump at. Jumping with the right people can make all the difference for me. The other day I jumped with a couple of old timers that trained me when I was a student. Neither of these guys jump much any more, but neither are ready to admit they're too old to do it any more. There wasn't any great relative work that took place on that jump. But I think it may have been one of the funnest jumps that I made this summer. There was tons of joking around. Old stories were told and laughed at. On jump run I almost had to roll old Jim out on the step because he was so old he had a hard time getting out there. And we even turned a few points in free fall, and even had good landings. Then it was beer time. Good will and acceptance was felt by all...Jumpers like these keep the sport alive for me.....Steve1

Oh, I couldn't miss Lost Prairie! That's why my rig and jump suit were all covered with dirt....I was sliding in most landings to save my ankle. And yes, it is getting harder to cowboy up after doing something really stupid. I keep telling myself that I'm still young, but my fat old body says not. Congrats on your Water jumps this year, Jeane. I should have made one. My gear and I could have used a good bath....Steve1

I was wondering if anyone knows his story. One old jumper told me he came from Idaho and jumped near Boise in the 70's. Another told me he once owned the D.Z. at Coolage before selling it to the Air Force and then starting Skydive Arizona. He was jumping with some other old Idahoians at Lost Prairie this year. You can't help but marvel at his success....Steve1

If anyone is really bored, I have a recent scary story to tell.... After a long winter of not jumping I went to a boogie last June here in Montana. They had a King Air that was brought up from Arizona. It landed on the highway at Chico Hot Springs, and this was our landing strip. What a beautiful place, right on the edge of Yellowstone Park, and it was the first jump of the boogie. After some uneventful relative work that jump, I opened a long way from where I wanted to land. I ran with the wind until the last moment and then started turning to face into the wind. I knew a flat turn was in order, so that is what I started. About then I realized that I was turning way to slow. I was right over the highway and fence. I'm not sure if it was muscle memory from my para-commander days or maybe I just wasn't thinking....but I made gave it way too much toggle and way too low of altitude. Next thing you know the ground is rushing up to get me. I pulled both toggles down about half way to hopefully bring me out of this. It didn't work. I slammed into the ground like a ton of crap. I mean the dust really flew and I wasn't sure how bad I was hurt. Trying to be a good cowboy I jumped right up and tried to act like I was okay. About then the pain set in. I realized my left ankle might be broke and my right foot was bruised badly. The pain was really brutal at that point so I lay back down. My only thought at that point was oh shit...how could I be that stupid as to make a low turn! After all I have over 700 jumps and I know better. Everyone must surely think I'm and idiot!.... So anyhow I ended up at the emergency room getting my ankle x-rayed. Luckily it wasn't broke. I've broken lots of bones and had several sprained ankles over the years, but none of them hurt like this one did. I was living on pain pills for nearly two weeks. Two months later, I'm still limping on it. It may need further surgery. At any rate. There's some things I learned from this... 1. Number one is to keep a cool head when things go wrong. Never panic and make a low turn! 2. I hope to get further training in canopy control. I've got plenty to learn on this subject. 3. I recently read an article that stated that you don't always have the luxury of landing into the wind. I could have downwinded this one without injury. 4. Rigger Rob once stated that going to half breaks and then preparing to do a PLF might be a good option to save your bacon when things go terribly wrong. This would have worked in this scenario even if I was over the highway and fence. 5. I need to stay current. Taking months and months off without skydiving is not a good plan. Currency is important in canopy control. Anyone else with more experience care to add to this list? I know a flat turn should have been used in this scenario. I started one but didn't follow through. Another jumper was killed at this same little boogie a few years ago making a low turn. I wonder if he was doing the same thing as I, and trying to miss an obstacle at the last moment. I wonder how often this same scenario is repeated each year. I still wonder if I had gone to full breaks instead of half brakes, if this wouldn't have brought me out of this arc into the ground. I'm no swooper...I guess I need to experiment with this up high. I'd appreciate your advice on this. I also hope this helps others who find themselves in the same situation.....Steve1

That's correct. The accomodations there weren't very fancy...Steve1

It seems like it took forever to get to 12 five. Back then we didn't know any better. DC-3's and twin beeches were high tech jump planes back then. I haven't jumped a twin beech in about 30 years. It was a real trick to get a fast exit out of one of those. Most of them had this little tiny door. At exit time it reminded me of a herd of long haired prairie dogs diving for the same hole. Needless to say exits were usually really strung out. I love the today's Twin Otters and king Air's. A huge improvement from what we jumped out of back in the 70's!....Steve1

Our club in 1973 was a college club and non profit. We owned our own plane, a Cessna 180. The first jump course back then was $50. After you got into freefall and could spot yourself, jumps were $3.50 to 8,000 ft. We would often rent a DC-3 or Twin Beech from the smokejumpers. To 1,250 ft., jumps were $7.50. You could also buy a military surplus main and chest pack reserve for around $150. Even us poor bastards could afford to jump back then....Steve1