peacefuljeffrey

Yes, and once again, a law against bartenders serving clearly intoxicated people cannot prevent that act from occurring, it merely provides the statutory righteousness for punishing offenders who commit it. You keep refusing to acknowledge the most basic principle of laws: they are powerless to stop actions from occurring, existing only to be a basis for which actions will be later punished after they occur, and how. This is such a simple concept, yet seems to be such a huge obstacle to many people's understanding. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Okay, so then we pass these laws. And the target of the laws -- the gun owner who is not responsible and so should not be allowed to bring his gun into a bar -- goes and brings his gun there anyway. After all, the law disallows bringing the gun into the bar -- it cannot and does not prevent it from being done. So we're back to where we started before we passed a law that good honest self-controlled people now are obligated to obey: the bad irresponsible guy will still bring his gun into the bar and make a potential nuisance or danger of himself with that gun, and the law simply provides a reason to punish him if he is found to have brought the gun there. And he's likely to be found to have the gun there only if he actually takes it out and uses it criminally against someone in the course of his drunkenness -- in which case that by itself already triggers our laws to punish him for doing that, and those laws are quite severe. So I think I've demonstrated the uselessness of such laws. The good people who are not a threat follow them, double-nullifying what was already a null threat. Good people voluntarily disarmed do not spare anyone criminal attack, injury or death. By definition, the bad people ignore these laws because the nature of the bad people is to do what they want to do regardless of right or wrong, and the law. So the result is that the bad people will be the only ones in places like bars, or stores that say "concealed firearms prohibited," to be carrying guns. In truth, though, I'm sure that a lot of people who are good citizens, non-law breakers, non criminals, non-violent, DO go armed into places where their guns are forbidden, and I defend this behavior. These are people who recognize the futility of signs and policies that say, "Criminal predators, don't bring your guns in here." They want to be armed in case such a criminal decides to turn this "gun-free zone" into a killing field. They want to be armed because they are justifiably indignant that such an absurd rule would prevent them from carrying their means of self defense, when they know that they themselves are no threat to anybody except those who would attempt to do unprovoked harm to innocents. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

So what if they shouldn't have access to the vehicle? Let's say they don't, let's say they get a taxi home. The gun's at home. Maybe he takes it out there and shoots his wife. The point is, the lack of access to the gun in the bar (which is completely voluntary, by the way, since if he did take it in, no one would likely ever know) doesn't really save lives that he might take. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

My definition of any socialist stupid enough to try to bite me on the ass. Without question. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Would that be the Howard Stern that liberals championed because they thought a vast right-wing conspiracy was silencing his freedom of speech? - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Sure I would. He'd be the dead guy on the floor with the broken neck and the fractured skull. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

PhillyKev can't enter that match. He has "asthma". "Sucks to your 'ass-mar'!" - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Rest assured, I do NOT -- EVER -- look DOWN on men in Speedos. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

"Meninspeedos"? Is that the part of Athens where they're holding the swimming competition? Down the road from "Notasportikos," where they're doing the "table tennis." - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

I just consider the "conservative" view on guns to be worth any, say, two dozen other "issues" that the left defends. I would go so far as to say that gun rights are more important than free speech rights, because although the ability to rise up and fight the government is not invoked nearly as much as the right to speak against it, it is a right that can be used to win back the right to free speech, whereas free speech cannot be used to win back the right to keep and bear arms. I grin and bear it when it comes to the right's positions on things like religion, and I'm less steadfastly pro-choice on abortion than I used to be (because I now do view the developing fetus as something special and not just a lump of cells). I do so because the left is not in line with me on issues like personal responsibility, abuse of the courts for extorting money via lawsuit, race-based anything, and gun rights. The left is too damned socialist for me to do anything but loathe it. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Dude, I made him big when I was twelve years old watching Knight Rider!! I did nothing to help him out once I was old enough to know better. In answer to question two, I'd offer "Europeans have questionable taste!" - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

I'd have thought you didn't want religion mixed with politics. Me, I prefer to keep the hyperbole out of it, as well. I'd appreciate a little help with that. "Four Horsemen"? Give me a break. That's a little over-the-top. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Well, what's that quote about the Tree of Liberty needing to be nourished by the blood of patriots now and then? Maybe it really is true that we are too far gone to work within the system, and too soon to shoot the bastards. So maybe what we DO need is to have the rights eroded so far that we go FULL BORE in restoring them for ourselves. The irony is, if they are living up to their own anti-gun dogma, the Democrats and other liberals won't have guns with which to help us take the rights back! (But chances are they're hypocrites who DO have their own guns, and just don't want everyone else to have them. Right, Rosie? Right, Dianne? Maybe it would be a positive thing, to be thrust into a domestic battle for a return to Constitutional principles of freedom and liberty, rather than to keep on the way we're going, with a bloated government, corrupt officials, wasetful spending of unfairly taxed income, and unnecessary laws. Maybe a catalyst for civil war and reclamation of our lost rights IN FULL could be the most needed thing in this country at this time. Every shitty thing that happens, from Ruby Ridge to Waco to that M.O.V.E. thng in Philly to Rodney King to the CT governor to the NJ governor to George Soros' illegitimate influence on U.S. politics -- none of it ever seems to be enough to make America demand justice, and to FIGHT to obtain it. We just keep sitting down and taking more shit, each time saying, "It's not enough to warrant uprising." Well, maybe we NEED to suffer enough, because going on the way we're going is not a healthy alternative. - - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

And give him the chance to do all the damage I believe he will do? Dude, that's the whole pointof fighting to keep him from getting elected. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

I think that this is a clear-cut case illustrating why we need laws that prohibit keeping knives in any house where alcohol is served. It would have saved this guy's life! Hell, we ban concealed firearms from bars! - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

The legal issue isn't whether it was wrong to get the sample. The issue is should the dr. be charged with a crime for not knowing the answer to that moral dilemna either. I don't think he should be. There is nothing I know of at law that says he can be conscripted to be the one who draws the blood. If the police want the blood drawn, they should keep someone qualified to do so on staff. Simple as that. The doc should go free. He's not a slave to the police department, nor is he an employee. He's under no obligation to do what they want done. If they want it done, they should do it. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Because when you sign the paper for your license, you sign a contract stating that you will provide that evidence whenever requeste for whatever reason. if you don't like it, don't sign the contract and get your license in the first place. Are you saying that you don't have to be suspected of drunken driving in order to be compelled to give the blood? What if I were pulled over for failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign? What if it were just about a broken taillight? "Requested for whatever reason"? What legal guarantees do I have that the blood taken without my authorization will not be used to, say, record my DNA on a government database? If they have enough to test for alcohol, they sure have enough to do that. Is that set down at law, that they may use the blood only for specified purposes? - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Well, I suggest you wait, because um, Kerry is not president at this time. For the comparison to be fair, we'd have to see what he would do IF president. I'm thinking he'd be wearing "gunboats." - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

First, I have no idea who Nathaniel Brazil is. Well, since Google is not yet available in your part of the country, I'll direct you to Post #29 of this thread. It gives a minimal explanation of who he is. At 13, he murdered his teacher, Barry Grunow, in a school in Lake Worth, Florida. With a gun he had stolen. Because he had been told he couldn't come into a classroom to talk with a girl he liked. Hell, any one of us would have done the same, right? - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

First, I have no idea who Nathaniel Brazil is. Second, did you really just admit that Bush is a criminal shitbag? Hell, I'll admit that EVERY president we've had since, say, Jefferson, has been a criminal shitbag of one type or another. I believe that anyone who wants the position in the first place is corrupted by the desire for power. I'll go one further and say that every president in the rest of the WORLD is a criminal shitbag -- and of those, most of them ar worse than the worst of the American criminal shitbag presidents. The only reason I'm going to vote for Bush is because Kerry is a direct threat to the Constitution via his virulent opposition to the Second Amendment, and his mendacious claims to support it. And I'm just as legitimate in making my voting decisions as any liberal who is voting for Kerry for no better reason than "He's not Bush." - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

You think I give a rats ass about whether or not some d###b on the internet respects me just because I slammed his beloved president? Dude you need to spend more time jumping and less time spewing your partisan political views. Slam me all you want (as we know you will as you always must get that last word in), but I'm out of here. It's time to go play volleyball, have a life and not worrying about what others think about me on the internet. Now this is about jump numbers? How many I've done recently is what would or wouldn't entitle me to speak here? Um, does "d###b" count as a personal attack, since I know what word it's supposed to be? How many jumps have you done in the last two months? Ooooh, go play volleyball to show that Jeffrey how much more of a life you have than he does. I thought this was about how many jumps we do? And so much for free speech, huh? You're saying that I'm not entitled to "spew my partisan political views"? Why? Because you said so?! O-o-okay! *guffaw* - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Have you seen any indication whatsoever that he thinks he has ever made a mistake or should ever correct any situation that is not going according to plan? I sure as hell haven't. I've seen only steadfast resolve to continue on the chosen path no matter what circumstances occur mid-stream. Well, Nathaniel Brazill has not abandoned the bullshit lie that he DIDN'T pull the trigger -- the gun just went OFF. And despite his own refusal to acknowledge that he's a murderer, he's got lawyers and other "adults" trying to convince the courts and juries that he's a good boy whose life should not be ruined and spent in jail for a "mistake" that he himself hasn't even owned up to. So I don't think it squares with the typical liberal philosophy that we should require Bush to admit he made a mistake before we give him a second chance. No other criminal shitbag is held to that standard by the liberals. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Why wouldn't you value the opinions of the people who actually live there? Might have something to do with the fact that they like the effect of what we did, but don't want us to have done it. - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Thanks for your opinion. We'll add it to the other 6 billion plus opinions in the world. Mine is most closely matched with 5 billion 850 thousand of them. (half of this country and the rest of the world.) Wow, you speak for the entire rest of the world?! Ask 'em for me what the hell is up with their fascination with David Hasselhoff! - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

The bear needs to hold a roll of toilet paper and a sign that says, "Which way to the woods?" You should cut off the arms of the bear and keep them in your office, and if anyone gives you trouble and demands them back, tell them they're infringing on your Constitutional right to keep bear arms. Okay, okay, I'll stop! - -Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"