elfanie

It becomes dorment in the winter. don't worry...it'll green up in the spring.

Huh...I hadn't thought about that. Good point. While stalling isn't a very good option (because, of course, NOT stalling and doing a soft standing up landing is the method of choice...of course) when it comes to a choice of releasing the flare, or stalling the canopy...which is better? when I stalled, it litereally just "dropped"...it was exactly like I just jumped off of a 6' high table. Like all of a sudden there was nothing holding me at all... but on a different canopy in altitude, I felt that pull backwards like you're tipping a chair, and can see how that would slam you down on your back if it happened during the landing. so which would be considered preferable? (if you find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to choose one or the other) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Already done! Beer and Stoli's Vodka for my rigger. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Question: I've stalled a canopy upon landing (see a thread in this forum "Lesson Learned - Re: Goggles" or something like that). Unless you're at a stupidly high altitude still (like 50 feet)....wouldn't it be better to stall the canopy and fall straight down (if you're at 6-15 feet) than to let off on the toggles? one would be more like jumping off a table (or off of the roof of a house)....and the other would be more like the hand of God slamming you into the ground...right? My question is...is this assessment accurate? That if you're about to stall fairly low that the impact would be less than if you try to let your canopy fly..? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Not very well...and obviously not real stable, either, considering that the force of my yank spun me over onto my back (and I truthfully can say that I don't think I truly thought, "OH CRAP!" until I was on my back, knowing how much time I'd just spent and I was without canopy AND ON MY BACK!) I can't say for CERTAIN that both hands were actually on the hacky....more likely is that one hand was gripping the hacky and the other was gripping the hand (or wrist) to help with strength. Probably my wrist. I distinctly remember what the hacky LOOKED like as both hands were there...so I had torked my body a little (not sure how I did that and was on my belly until I yanked). I don't know if it was from torking my body to pull the PC, or the force of the reserve opening...or just the stress from nerves... but *rubs neck* I am quite a bit sore today..neck and shoulders are sore. I will say that if a hard pull ever occurs again....I won't fight it as hard. If I pull once and she doesn't come....that will be my first try. Next one will be everything I have..and it will be one handed. If I can't get it out with a strong everything-I-have pull from one hand, I'm quitting. Not worth the fight. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

This is actually a good question...and one that I was asked by a few different friends of mine that have jumped (but aren't jumpers)..."did you cut away your main anyways? (yes) Why?" In my training...I was told that NO MATTER WHAT you chop...period. NO MATTER WHAT you pull your reserve, even if you have an RSL attached. That if I have a malfunction in which I need to perform emergency proceedures, I look red, grab red, look silver, pull red, pull silver. there was an instance somewhere that was related to me where there was a fatality (not too long ago...and I actually know the person lost, so this isn't an urban legend or a story of a friend of a friend of a cousin of a roomate who knew someone) where there was a PC in tow...he pulled his reserve without chopping his main, main came out with the reserve blow, inflated below him (he was unaware that he was in the process of having a dual out), came up and the end result of how everything turned out was a main-reserve entanglement. In my training I was told always to chop first....that if for some reason my main bag came free, it would probably fall to earth with the canopy still in the bag. (fine with me!) I also suspect that (especially with me being so new with only 37 jumps) they think that my time would not be well spent thinking over the different scenarios and trying to decide whether or not to pull that red pud... time isn't a friend right then....and it takes long enough to just make the decision to perform emergency proceedures. Taking time at that point to decide what those emergency proceedures will be could take time you don't have....so there's no "decision" to be made. once I knew I was going to deviate from "pull the PC"....everything else happened without thought from me (or at least seemed to). -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Heh...I'm not the one that packed the pilot chute (and I'm actually glad about that). I got a new rig for christmas and was trying out some different canopies to see what size/type I should buy for a main (the rig I bought has a main that's too small for me right now). This was a rig that I'd jumped a week and a half ago that I had a question about and ended up leaving for the packer to pack. when I landed, one of my trainers came up to me in the field and said, "what happened?" I said, "hard pull...couldn't get the pilot out.." He grabbed the hacky and yanked on it. It didn't come out..and he said, "Yup..." the packer that packed it came up and pulled on it again...and pulled it out and looked at it. I'm actually not sure WHY it got caught in there...but I'm sure it's something the packer was looking into...(he is a fantastic guy who is an excellent packer! I'm actually going to be surprised if it was something he did...and I more expect that it was an odd combination of things like the elastic around the PC holder being tight with a not real smoothed out PC combined with me lesser body strength or something like that...) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Hats off to my trainers... First jump of the day today...went fine through freefall, tracked, and got ready to pull. I planned to pull VERY high because I was having some anxiety about the canopy I was jumping this time, so I waved off at around 6K and reached back to pull (so began the pull probably around 5.5K) Hard pull...pilot chute didn't budge. I grab ahold of the hacky hard and YANK...didn't come out. I knew I started high so I reached down with both hands and YANKED with everything I had.... Pulled hard enough that I litereally pulled my hip over and barrel rolled so now I'm on my back. I let go of the hacky and while I was rolling back onto my back my red cutaway handle was in my hand and already yanked. belly-down, my reserve D-ring was out and before I really even knew what I was doing there was a white reserve canopy over my head. Altimeter was at right around 2K. Fly the reserve in VERY gently and didn't even try to stand the landing (gentle, but sat it down). Since this is Safety and Training... Safety: I violated the 2-try rule...while part of me is kicking myself for, but part of me is making the kicks gentle because I WAS starting high. I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that I tried 3 times instead of two. I'm 99% sure that NEXT time I'd only try two...because I think I was in partial denial for the first pull, like, "huh? what the heck??" whereas next time I have a problem I don't think I'll feel that way. Other than that...I honestly think I did "everything right". I pulled...I chopped..I got my reserve...I landed...I'm safe. I do wish that I'd felt like I remained more altitude aware than I was...it was more, "Yank..yank..YANK...ohgod I need something over me NOW, CHOP" I never looked at my altimeter...should I have? At that point it didn't matter to me what altitude I was at..if I was at 4K I still would have chopped... Training: Emergency proceedures!! I...was slightly impressed...that what I was trained to do was EXACTLY what I did without thinking about it! I mean, sitting here now, I can't tell you, "well, I thought look red, grab red, look silver, pull red, pull silver..." I had just done it so many times on the ground that it just happened exactly the way I'd rehearsed. I like that feeling...that's a good feeling to me. not a comfortable feeling...but a comforting feeling. And before anyone asks...yes, I bought beer. And yes, I bought my rigger a BIG bottle of his choice of liquor. Phew...today was an interesting day. Jumped twice more after that...they all but booted me out to the plane on the next load. hee hee. I know they were all wanting to make sure that I "got on the horse" before I lost my gumption. And they were SO wonderful to me at the DZ....supportive, encouraging. And then they did everything they could to make sure that I had a VERY safe jump the next jump (and VERY smooth as butter pilot chute pull) I love my Coolidge family...I really do. What an awesome bunch of people....I'm so lucky to have the people that I jump with. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Looks like I'm able to avoid some snarky sarcasm from the monkey cage for another day, eh? Yeah...now my FIL can start to take over and start analyzing all of the data we're going to be getting...(and my BIL can start snappin' some cool pics. ) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

HAHAHAHAHAA!!! that's probably because my brother-in-law? We took him for his first jump (tandem) two weeks ago..he did two jumps the same day. My FIL has some out to the DZ with us and watched us jump not that long ago... probably still have that on their mind. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

My father-in-law is one of the lead people in charge of the mars rover landing...He is a "lead scientist" working with Steve Squyers. My brother-in-law is on the pancam team, which is the 13-color camera that's on the lander that they will use to identify interesting things to drive the rover to. Obviously we're watching it in my home right now. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

None listed. I think the greatest moment was when the Broncos won the superbowl...and John was jumping up and down on the field as the clock ticked the last second off the clock... (followed up after he retired with them retiring his number and him up there with his wife crying like a baby. *sniff* Made me cry.) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

First let me say that I loved this entire message.

What about pathetic internet shorthand started by people who obviously can't type... Hi! How R U 2day? TTFN -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

I think the most irritating phrase (and I hear it a LOT) is "I could care less..." No...the phrase is supposed to be "I couldn't care less" If you could care less..that means YOU CARE!! duh! -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

I knew it sounded that way when I wrote it...which is why originally (in the other thread, I think) I clarified... Individual experience and training of course will change individual risk factors in the sport...absolutely. What I meant (and clarified there but should have repeated here) is that what I do or do not have personal experience with doesn't change the overall risk of the sport of skydiving. I can keep my wingloading under 1:1, have taken 3 different canopy control courses, never swoop, fly extremely conservative and reduce my risk at absolutely every turn.. but the statistical risk of skydiving is there regardless.... *nods* Which is why I have been using "safe" to be synonymous with "safe enough".. because otherwise, nothing in life is 'safe'. It's either 'safe enough'...or it's not. I have NEVER EVER said that skydiving is without risk..NEVER! In fact, I've said in the past that you should have a healthy fear of what can go wrong..just like you should throughout life! But most people use "safe" to mean "a safety level that I find acceptable"...and that's how I've been using the term... and I do everything I can to reduce the risks. (everything I know how to do) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

*nods* this is true.. and I actually did look at that... the breakdown between how many deaths were tandems, how many were students, how many were experts, etc. Here's older information, but still interesting. It's from the early 90's.. I'd love to see something more current...does anyone have anything more current? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

I'm creating a new thread so that it doesn't interfere with the low-turns thread that this was started in... This is in reply to Ron's post to me that said.. [reply The relevance is you don't know enough to know its not safe. Ok...if you beleive this to be the case, then educate me. What is it about the safety/risk of this sport that I do not know and should know? I've looked at incidence reports...I've looked at the statistics...I've looked at the number of jumps each year that are done, the average number of deaths each year, the average ratings of those who die in the sport (ie. how many are 'experts', how many are "students", etc) what do I, as a beginner, need to know that I do not know? Experience in the sport doesn't change the risk factors of the sport...like I said, I don't have to actually pick up that gun and play russian roulette to know that I have a 1 in 6 chance of blowing my head off. Playing russian roulette doesn't change the risk factor... so what should I know or what do you feel that I need to know that I don't know? If you give me information that I don't have and it changed my opinion so that I no longer feel it's safe enough...I will personally give you my rig, buy you a refrigerator full of beer, and give you the best kiss I can on your cheek (of your choice)...because I am a wife and mother of three children and if my information is incorrect, I'd want to know it! I'm always open for being educated... This sport is scary..yes. This sport isn't without risk...nothing in life is...and if your definition of safe is "without risk" (as the definition from Websters that you posted), then I can see why you feel it's not safe...and nothing in life would be considered safe. For my definition...it is. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

agreed...and my apologies. So hypothetical question....why would a canopy control course, even a basic one...NOT be included in AFF training? ALL trainings? With emphasis as much as low altitude behavior as it is on high speed and low speed malfunctions? And while I would be seriously against any regulations concerning swooping or other things related...why not have guidelines/suggestions in place for things such as that or wingloading or whatever..? (serious question...as in, what is the downside to having these in place..? Is there a downside that I don't know of?) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

*hops up and down with glee* Ok...yes yes...there's another way to put it...thank you! I will absolutely agree to say, "NOTHING is "absolutely safe"...things are either "safe enough" or "too dangerous". I consider skydiving to be safe enough." Absolutely will agree to that...yup yup yup... nothing in life is without risk...we evaluate risk every moment of every day. My evaluation of skydiving is that it's one of the safe enough activities to engage in. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

My apologies. My intent was to learn...not to cause bad feelings. Only one. I only have 33 jumps in the sport thus far. Of coruse no instructor ratings. but these things..I'm not sure of the relevance. that doesn't change the risk of the sport or the statistics... Having 8000 jumps and 23 years in the sport and having personally known 38 people who have died doesn't change the danger of the sport. it only changes the PERCIEVED danger and makes it more emotional. And have you done any of these yet? So maybe you don't know whats safe and whats not? Engaging in an activity doesn't change the risk level. I don't have to play russian roulette to determine that the risk of that activity is high enough for me to consider it unsafe. And I'm not arguing that someone shouldn't feel skydiving is unsafe.. if 30 deaths in 3 million jumps is unsafe in their opinion, then that is their opinion. Absolutely! I'm just arguing that my definition isn't wrong, either..and that in my definition 30 deaths in 3 million jumps is safe. I have none...not a one. But my experience doesn't change the risk level of the sport. (eep..that sounds totally off from what I'm meaning..so let me try again) My experience and training the sport of course can make me a safer individual skydiver...that's not what I mean. what I do mean is that the safety of the sport is the safety of the sport in general...whether or not I have ever engaged in any activity, whether I have 1 year or 50 years in the sport, whether I have known nobody who has died or over 100 people who have died.... the safety of the sport is what it is. None of my personal experience changes the safety of the sport...the risk of skydiving is the same. (again, given the same activity) I feel that it's safe. And you have the right to your opinion. And like I said in my very first post...it's all a matter of opinion. In your opinion, you feel this sport is not safe. In your definition of what is considered safe and unsafe, you consider it unsafe...and are strong enough in that conviction to say that those that have different definitions are wrong. that's your right. *offers to shake your hand* You have a deal.

Yes...if statistics changed, then it might fit my definition of "unsafe". right now there is something in the neighborhood of 3 million jumps a year. And 30 deaths. On average. For my definition, this still falls within the rhelm of "safe". If something changed to this figure, then of course it could fall under my definition of 'unsafe'. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Perhaps that perception will change when someone you know does everything right and dies anyway... But knowing the person that does everything right and still dies doesn't change the safety of the sport. it just evokes an emotional response. I've only been in the sport since July...and already lost someone. but knowing the person who died doesn't change the danger of the sport. Just personalizes what risk there is. But the risk remains the same whether you know any of the 30 people that die a year or not... -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

However...if you lived in a different place that might not be the case (it almost certainly wouldn't be the case). I am curious...as a learning opportunity... you say you've lost a lot of friends to this sport. Mind if I ask what the causes of death for your friends have been? (ie. total mals, attempted swoop, unintentional low turns, collisions, etc) Yes, I do. again, not to mistake that to mean "without risk". I understand and acknowledge all risks that I know of that I undertake. But for my definition...yes. (and again...this isn't to say that there aren't activities within basic skydiving that I think are unsafe...absolutely there are! BASE jumping...I consider unsafe. Swooping, CReW, skysurfing, etc...I don't consider those safe activities..) Ron...I would never intentionally come across as being less than respectful for your experience. I very much respect your experience and knowledge. However, personal anecdotes aren't statistics, although they can sometimes be more powerful to an individual than actual statistics. (You only have to lose ONE child to a bug bite for bug bites to freak you out for the rest of your life..and all of the research and statistics in the world won't comfort you or make you feel any better about the danger of bugs.) I know that you've had some serious heartache and loss in this sport... But that doesn't mean that statistically speaking that skydiving (barring the other added activities people tack onto it) isn't safe. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Again, this is an opinion based on your definition of what constutites "safe". I know the risks... and feel that it is a very safe sport. There are risks to everything in life...there is a risk when eating that cookie dough that you could get salmonella and die from it. (it does happen!) there is a risk that you will get a tick bite that can kill you...or a mosquito bite. However..I feel that eating and playing in my yard are safe activities. Being safe doesn't mean that it is without risk...it means that the risk is such that your opinion is that it is safe. I feel that driving my car is safe...if I felt it weren't safe, I wouldn't do it. Doesn't mean it's not without a very real risk.. just means that the risk is such that I feel it's an acceptable risk and I feel it's safe. (or, 'safe enough') but if your only definition of "safe" is "without risk"..then NOTHING in life is safe!! -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings