pirana

I think it is erroneous to place blame on individual leaders. Long term, they really don't have that much influence. Our economic situation is rooted in the consumption revolution of the 50's. We did not get in this situation because of bankers or dot-commers or real estate speculators. Those are all just symptoms. We got this way because our expectations are seriously flawed for our future role in a truly worldwide economy. Each of those events/symptoms represent desparate attempts to continue the building and accumulation of wealth. Each has been followed by the rude awakening that the wealth created was false wealth. It's not that the economy is broken, it is that expectations in the US are out of line with reality. I was initially an Obama supporter because I thought we were going to see a radically different approach and a reshaping of expectations and perceptions. If he ever really intended to be different than the same old game - his plan changed once he got in office. He, and all the other politicians are either incompetent or flat out lying when they talk about a 1 or 2 year recovery. If nothing else, given the changes occurring in the rest of the world, how can anyone evenly seriously consider that we will "recover" to some previous peak level of economic dominance. It's absurd. The best case scenario is a controlled decceleration. The measures for success for that are going to be very different than the old ones like he-who-dies-with-the-most-toys-wins. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

That's me in the corner . . . " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Can't be seen with the naked eye, but they can be seen. Just as we can only see a small fraction of celestial bodies with the naked eye, but can see far more with the right tools; our visual acuity does not allow us to see atoms - but with the right tools . . . " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Wages in the US are going to go down, if not by management decision, then by market pressures. There is almost nothing that can stop it. Access to labor is now as global as capital. In a measure that truly reflects real wages - buying power - the US is going to suffer while the rapidly developing countries gain. Bleeding of jobs and buying power will only stop when a certain equilibrium is attained. Our efforts should focus on making the road to that equilibrium a controlled deceleration instead of a train wreck. All of our politicians (at least at the federal level) know this. If they are not smart enough to know it, then they certainly have some experts advising them and quietly telling them the truth behind closed doors. Don't expect people who rely on votes to keep their job to tell you this. Welcome to the globalization of the workforce and the commoditization of practically everything. How you liking those low prices now? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Google, "don't give a flying fuck" and see how much I care about your pathetic attempts to make sense out of the bible. OK, so I'm bored, and did google the phrase. Funny stuff. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Eventually humankind will be able to observe the instant our universe was created, as optics and imaging software evolve. You do realize that the stars that you observe in our sky are stars at an earlier point in their lives than present? It is only a matter of time until we will be able to see the origin of our universe. When that happens, how will religion deal with it? Probably not going to happen. All credible models currently indicate the early Universe was quite dense and almost certainly opaque. And despite how cool the concept was in The Hitchhker's Guide; there'll be no way to see the end either - regardless of whether it is closed or open. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

When they can't measure it, they make it up with names, mythology, if you like. Dark Matter Dark Energy Infinity Zero Length of their penis Since when did lack of knowledge ever cause anyone to suspend commentary? Do you really think infinity and zero fall in the realm of mythology? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I agree, but also think we might be a bit biased. I'm sure those on the recieving end of the benefits would point out that no laws are being broken, and the perks are swell. It occurs to me that the corporation as a model for business is the logical outcome of an economic system that rewards big at the margin (making scale of operations critical). I think the end result is what I've heard termed corporatocracy. We're not really a democracy anymore - at least not a very pure one - but the public has gotten what it deserves as a result of it's lust for instant gratification and flavor-of-the-day consumerism. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Religious cult fatties nuke gay whales caught funding abortions for gun-toting teabaggers. I think I win. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

A road, even if you discount the unevenness of the surface, is 2 dimensions. The only way driving is one-dimensional is if you live on a line - as a line is defined in geometry. Am I not supposed to take this seriously? seriously, you equate lane changing and little bumps as a serious extra dimensions? or are just billvoning the whole thing by counting curves and turns as a serious 2nd dimension to the line you drive on - how clever, how pathetic to ignore the obvious intent of the comment just to show others how sadly clever you would have been in real life if you had one your dog is ugly too What about intersections? That's 2 lines, even given a very liberal definition of a line. Can 2 intersecting lines exist in just one dimension? Even if they are in the same plane, that's 2 dimensions. . It's a fractal. Neither 1 nor 2, somewhere in between. What about roundabouts? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

At least the Persians and Egyptians had deduced the Earth to be round before Jesus was even born. Very few people who bothered to investigate (even back then) thought the Earth to be flat. In fact, by the time the Europeans set off across the oceans, very few people at all believed the world to be flat. It is a myth that anyone of any learning at all thought Columbus (or anybody else of that time) would actually sail off the edge of the Earth - other than maybe those with a dogmatic agenda. Heck, they even came pretty close to calculating the circumference. So yes, it was only the huddled masses with no compunction to bother knowing, and the willfully ignorant religious who still thought the Earth to be flat. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

OK, so they observed rain and commented on it's falling. Not sure of the relevance to the discussion. BTW, a lot of rain evaporates before reaching the ground. IIRC, at least the simple majority of rain falls without watering the Earth. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Not certain what is meant by spiritual reality - sounds like a bit of an oxymoron. But I agree with the general premise of it being stories told as lessons on how to live - though it is not the only source for learning how to live. No problem here with people seeking spiritual guidance; my beef is with the fundies who want to pull BS like putting stickers in text books encouraging quackery as an alternative to the scientific facts teased from nature via painstaking labor of generations of dedicated scientists. They casually waive off the very foundations of physics, chemistry, and biology not because they have any evidence to the contrary; but because it contradicts their dogmatic tautology. That is what brings on the wrath. Peace be with everyone - but keep the oogie-boogie and propogation of ignorance outside the realm of explaining the natural world. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I just love a happy ending

A road, even if you discount the unevenness of the surface, is 2 dimensions. The only way driving is one-dimensional is if you live on a line - as a line is defined in geometry. Am I not supposed to take this seriously? seriously, you equate lane changing and little bumps as a serious extra dimensions? or are just billvoning the whole thing by counting curves and turns as a serious 2nd dimension to the line you drive on - how clever, how pathetic to ignore the obvious intent of the comment just to show others how sadly clever you would have been in real life if you had one your dog is ugly too What about intersections? That's 2 lines, even given a very liberal definition of a line. Can 2 intersecting lines exist in just one dimension? Even if they are in the same plane, that's 2 dimensions. Yes, our dogs are ugly. They are rescues, and now we know why. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Well, it took me a while but i finally got it about SC. There's extremely little discussion and very little debate. It's all about arguments. Why does anybody think it is called Speaker's Corner? It is the online equivalent of Ranting Street Corner Lunatic. Funny aside. Took the family to Chicago last week. The kids got to see panhandlers and Ranting Street Corner Lunatics in numbers for the first time. They found the guy on the subway singing a quite loud rendition of a gospel/rasta/rap mix perplexing. "Dad, does he just ride the train so he can sing to people?" "Yes honey, it's his strategy for keeping an audience. On the street we could just walk away. Here, put a quarter in his hat and he'll probably go to the next car." " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

You came to this forum for that?! Talk about sending in a marshmallow to put out a bonfire. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Or maybe it is because they do not put much credence in things that can only be shown to exist as wishful thoughts and vivid imaginations. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

A road, even if you discount the unevenness of the surface, is 2 dimensions. The only way driving is one-dimensional is if you live on a line - as a line is defined in geometry. Am I not supposed to take this seriously? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Well, he got three kinds of brown people that he's working on right now. He's got afghan brown, Iraqi brown, and Libyan and North African brown. And since he built up force in the 'stans instead of withdrawing, I think afghanistan counts as our country's longest running war ever. Makes me wonder if he's going to hit SE Asia next, or aim for somewhere that white folks go to get a tan... Now we're talking. I think we should put it to a vote. I say we attack The Bahamas. Nice beaches, close to home, currencies are on par, . . . " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Neither was Iraq - which is besides the point because it's not defense. Well, not as in defending our own citizens or borders. It's defending people that are risking their lives to overthrow a dictator. They can't vote him out - so the only choice is a call to arms - and of course unless or until a significant chunk of the military join their side - they have no chance. (Sorry for all the dashes). I do strongly believe that the world does need cops for when despotic strongmen resort to muderous purges of their own citizens in order to stay in power. It would just be nice if we went into countries like Sudan and Congo - countries without vast resources we'd like to get our hands on - as eagerly as we go into places with lots of spoils. Maybe if we set the example by coming to the aid of people with nothing to give - the world would follow? Probably not. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

That is too easy; dogs are such vulgar animals. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I was going to say that putting an alcohol detector in a vehicle in WI would be like installing a smoke detector in a bonfire - but you beat me to it. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

OK, one more time: - If we like them, they are freedom fighters. - If we don't like them, they are terrorists. M'kay? IMO, they can only be classified as terrorists if they attack civilians. Attacking military/government targets makes them a legitimate opposing army/militia. Forming such a legitimate militia is the only recourse when living in a dictatorship - since there is no option to change leadership at the polls. This kind of situation (a non-democratic government at war with it's own citizens) is a dilemma. Should the world stand by and watch as a dictator ignores the needs of the citizenry, then slaughters those that disagree? Who stands up for civilians when their own government attacks them? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

This attitude and the resultant God-like qualities it infers for physicians, and the idea that you cannot put a price on life & health (and therefore on the care given) is why the tactics being pursued will not fix the cost of care problem. Eliminate the insurance companies, eliminate the quack segments of caregivers, eliminate the politics, etc, . . . and you still have a level of cost that is unteneble. Why don't people get that? We simply can not provide everybody in the country with Cadillac health care (or anything even close) regardless of their ability to pay any more than we can provide everybody in the country with a Cadillac regardless of their ability to pay. That the current administration has embarked on that path at a time when the economy is in such duress is an indicator of either their stupidity or their willingness to put blind ideals ahead of common sense. That their "reforms" do nothing to address the supply of caregivers or the actual cost of care is a testament to the power of the AMA. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley