pirana

Oh please do tell, I love a good surprise. Will it be anything like the consequences suffered so far by non-believers? Which is what? Please be specific, I'd like the name and fate of a blasphemous person and how you have come to know about such things in detail. And sorry to inform you, but God is mocked. At least a few times each day. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

SCAM. Set up a code you claim no one can adhere to (and make certain to tell them they can't), decree yourself to be the only one who can grant forgiveness, keep everyone in line by threatening eternal damnation, offer nothing as proof other than tautological arguements, obfuscate with constant tangenital references to His love, and His glory, His greatness, His word, blah blah blah. A greater scam has never been unleashed. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I had no idea that stuff was still out there. Ripple anyone? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I would agree on some of the additional costs, but not all. Both my daughters went to a small private preschool for 2 years. Cost was $5K each per year. Stretched our budget pretty thin, but it was worth it to lay a solid foundation. MN & WI both are in the $10K per student per year. I'm guessing the doubling of costs is mostly related to "programs." By that I mean sports, music, all kinds of special ed, all kinds of non-educational BS, loads of unnecessary layers of admin people, etc. Probably mostly stuff the average person doesn't see and is not even aware of. And with the expected benefit of large schools enjoying economies of scale, the waste must be terrific. It's always bugged me, but I've never seen an itemized school budget. Your email has made me more curious than ever. Might have to look into it. It galls me that they spend 2 times what the private school spends, and the only difference I can see is bus service and sports teams. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I think I can still get in trouble for mine. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Hey, we did that too - with a slight variation. We'd stand around the bonfire at night and shoot them straight up in the air. The wait was eerie. The closest they ever came was about 30 to 40 feet. Then we graduated to shooting them at each other from about 50 yards away (during the day). Witht the cheap euipment we had and our young reflexes, there was always just enough time to sidestep the arrows. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

And a mere 8' stopped you? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Yesiree bop. The arguements for irreducible complexity have more holes than a congressional spending limit bill and have been throughly debunked. Every example thrown out by Mr. Behe and The Discovery Institute folks has been shot down down like a low-flying blimp at an RPG party. It's just a God of the Gaps variation anyway. I get a kick out of that oxymoron; they are not out to "discover" anything. They perform no experiments or research whatsoever. They have a politicized agenda and their "institute" has already decided they have all the answers, regardless of any evidence that is presented (or ever will be presented). " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

That'll never fly - it takes out the part where the government first gets to take the money away and then move it around under some shells, and then turns around and gives it back to whoever is screaming the loudest. You can't purchase any votes with your proposal. won't work Yes indeedy; exactly what I meant in referring to the resistance to change. Everybody talks big, but no one is willing to put their meal ticket where their mouth is - even though the potential payoff might be huge. That and the fact that one end of the spectrum (the my-kids-don't-need-no-stinking-education crowd) would opt out altogether. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Great article, to the point, and no secret to anyone who's taken a close look at our system. But the entitlement mentality around public education is incredible. How do you effect change against a system that is so entrenched. In a bureacracy that big, where almost no one on the inside wants real and significant change - how do you change things? Maybe I'm too upset with it to see the good things happening. Maybe the charter school movement, complete with it's fits and starts, is the beginning of a serious revamping of our system. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

That might make for some very funny footage. Someone should get a camera crew and do a man-in-the-street piece based on this. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Interesting thread, but a lot like religion, not going to convert anybody unless they have a life-altering experience. But I'll throw my 2 cents in. We've never struck our children, ever. They are 6 and 8, and as sweet as they come. Might be a bit mischevious once in a while, but nothing terribly serious. The older one stole something when she was 6. Probably didn't really even fully understand how wrong it was. We had a long talk about the event, and decided to cancel her birthday party as a consequence. I think it is quite possible she will never steal again the rest of her life. There are lots of more powerful tools than physical force. They are more humane, less humiliating, and the child learns that brute force is pretty crude when compared to using your brains to figure out how to get something done. I think if a person could spank with no anger and with extreme judiciousness - it would be OK. I do not know anyone who does that though. Every spanking I've witnessed has been the parent venting their anger. There isn't much going on in the area of intellectual discourse while the parent is smacking the kid on the ass. And discourse is the healthy way to learn a lesson. Instead of "I shouldn't do that or I'm going to get hit" becomes "I shouldn't do that because (insert intellectual reasoning here). The result is they behave because they understand, not because if Dad were here he'd hit me. If getting smacked is the motivator to behave, then they'll not have an incentive to behave if they think the smacker won't find out. If the reasons for behaving are intellectualized, then the child will behave because it has become part of their persona. I was the child of a habitual "spanker." He did it to satisfy his needs, not mine. I hate him to this day, and I turned out fine despite him. The kind of things I learned from him were: get better at not getting caught, avoid people like him, big people can get their way with little people, parents do not have a monopoly on what is right, etc. There is a reason for the high corelation between levels of corporal punishment in children and criminal activity as adults. Whoever was questioning that connection needs to read up on the topic. It sure helped me make sense of why certain families in our neighborhood ended up raising the little bastards that turned into the bullies. I'm not aware of any study that casts even a shadow of doubt on that corelation. OK, that was more like $1; and no, I don't need a hug. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I feel the same way to a degree. I mean MAD seemed to work pretty well, maybe better than trying to control in detail what everybody was doing. The problem is that it appears some of the holders of these weapons are plain fucking crazy. MAD doesn't work against people who don't mind dying soon; and who may have dying soon as their goal (as some twisted way of honoring their God). The most unfortunate thing is that I don't see any resolution on the horizon, and however it works out, an awful lot of civilians are going to get hurt. It's an incredibly complicated/convoluted situation that's either going to end in mushroom clouds, or is going to be around for many, many more generations. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Agreed. He is their biggest rallying point, and especially for such a dispersed effort, some focal point common to all is big. I find it extremely suspicious that he has been as quiet as a dead person. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Ah yes, the ugly little chink in the armor of capitalism that occasionally raises it's head. Any system that has the accumulation of wealth as it's driving force (it's incentive) can be at best only at truce with issues of social inequity. When the bottom line is to accunulate money, there just isn't much reason to give it away, or do anything that results in not making the most you can. Aside from preventing violent revolution, there is no incentive for a good capitalist to give away any of their cash. Even then, a good capitalist is out there making money on the revolution. Those that don't, most likely just guessed the wrong way. As for the bottom line, it's making money, not staying in business. There often is lots of money to be made by going out of business, and a good capitalist recognizes those opportunties also. I'm not saying I'm a fan of all the side effects; but overall, capitalism is the best thing going - for now. Capitalism is when one man takes advantage of another. Communism is the other way around. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It has gone on for decades, and it does not appear that any of the people calling the shots have learned any long-term lessons along the way. Continuing to do the same thing but expecting the results to change is so futile. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

The topic represents an interesting clash in ideologies. In most capitalist/democratic models people are guaranteed the freedom and liberty to pursue their own happiness, and in turn responsible for succeeding (or failing) and the attached consequences. In most centrally planned/dictatorial models people are guaranteed certain physical comforts like food, shelter & clothing (though the promise is rarely kept for the full 100% of the population) but get no promnise about liberty and freedom. It seems like a no-brainer that freedom is worth the price of being responsible for your lot in life, even if it means those who fail are pretty much on their own. The sticking point for me is distinguishing between those that truly can't help themselves and those that have decided it's not worth the effort. My gut tells me there are a lot of lazxy folks out there milking the system (and I have met a few). I wonder if there is any credible research into the quantifiable attributes of the homeless. For example; how many are certifiably nuts, how many just low IQ, how many have mental disorders, how many have debilitating medical issues, etc. I have no immediate answer or opinion. I have compassion for those truly in need, but too many bastards have made it very difficult to identify those in need, and they have burdened the system to the point of it being broken (or nearly broken). " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Just to be clear, my opinion is that it is a false badge of honor; and that I don't think many addicts even consider it that way (if they do, they aren't fully recovered, as they still see some sort of glory in what they did). I do think that some people's perception that a recovering addict wears such a badge is what irritates them. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Illogical to assume that just because I want something done, but don't want to do it myself, that it should not be done. Poor arguement structure. I think cars should be built, but have no desire to be the builder of cars; so does that mean cars should not be built? If there is a need for something to be done (and I understand this as the matter of opinion here - as to whether or not there is a need for someone to carry out capital punishment), the task should be carried out by those professionals designated to do so. Just because I, or any other person who believes it should be carried out, don't want to performn the task personally, doesn't mean it should not be carried out. I agree with you about treating all predators equally. Crimes against children do especially sicken me, but I'd be OK with executing all predators, regardless of the age of the person they preyed upon. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

IMHO (had to start there you know), it's the old saying about going over the edge and living to tell. I'd think the majority of this crowd would see it that way. Not that planned skydives are anything like the destructive power of addiction to a substance, or that returning from that type of addiction is some sort of honor (that's probably the read that irritates people); but it is a place most people don't go. Probably acknowledging that, along with the fact that most don't go there, and don't want to, would balance that false badge of honor perspective. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

If you have to spank regularly, or seriously hit ever, you screwed up big time somewhere up the line. And since most personality traits are established between 2 and 6, you probably aren't even aware of what you did. Such is the bain of the parent and the burden of the child. Those Darn Humans are so bloody complicated. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I'd like to shake the guys hand, but don't know if I want to get that close. Sure is handy when one scum gets rid of another - saves decent citizens from the task. If I were to have posted seriously to the Worst Crimes thread, crimes against people would be #1. Subcategory A - crimes against children. Basically, what bothers me most is the level of defenselessness (?) of the victim. Maybe what I am feeling is a hate for predators. People who prey on other people should just be fucking exterminated. They are human in physical form only and do not deserve the rights afforded to the decent, peaceful, responsible portion of our population. I truly believe that anyone who thinks the BTK killer shouldn't be summarily executed hasn't got their head on quite right. When a person makes the decision to prey on fellow humans, they give up ALL rights. Their membership in society is cancelled; and since there is no good reason to waste any more resources on them than at all possible - they need to be put down like the rabid animal they are. Period. Any attempt to justify keeping such a person alive is a sign of weakness - both of the individual and of the society. My - I feel so much better now! don b - dispensing wisdom wherever the truth, and capital punishment, are not suppressed. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

The answer is obvious when you consider why NASA has yet to send a women to the Moon - because it doen't need cleaning. Ba - dum - bam! " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Mixing up the food groups. If I want a taco, I'll have a taco. If I want a pizza, I'll have a pizza. Who came up with, and why the hell do we need a taco pizza or a pizza taco? Others that bug me: Veggie burger Taco soup - saw it at Don Pablos today Taco salad - there's a trend here. People want tacos, but they don't want tacos. don b - dispensing wisdom wherever the truth, and the mixing of food groups, is not suppressed.

And? Don't leave us in suspense. I love good cat-to-the-vet stories. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley