Kennedy

Actually, the Supreme Court has already said that requiring felons to register their firearms is UNCONSTITUTIONAL because it violates the fifth amendment clause against self incrimination. So that's how much good registering guns would do you. Not "a little" bit of crime reduction. Not "even a few" criminals brought to justice. Zero. None. They don't have to. So somebody please explain to me passing legislation applicable to good and honest citizens only. [sarcasm] It couldn't be that the government wants more control, could it? Naw, we trust the government.[/sarcasm] witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

king air twin otter cessna 182 casa caravan skyvan stearman witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Ah, the spirit of open-minded dialogue. Ah, the spirit of taking words out of context. I meant we don't need the compromises you have in mind. I'm heading south, west, or both by at least two states. Still figuring that out while supposedly doing something to earn my paycheck [and screwing around on dz.com, of course]. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Ah, a fellow soul who knows my pain. I'm almost out of here. hip hip HOO-RAH!!! witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

No I can't dispute that. We call these things assault and homicide, and there are already laws against that. Aren't you the one who said "innocent until proven guilty?" You're saying a person is guilty until he proves to you he is innocent. I don't buy it. Less than 1% of all guns will be used in a crime. Why give issues to people holding the other 99%? Safety? B.S. Target the people holding that 1% of guns. More than I can possibly imagine? Are you kidding me? Do you know what Project Exhile is? I supported it. Directly. Through my contributions to the NRA-ILA. Under Project Exhile, anyone convicted of commiting a crime with a gun gets the normal sentnce for the crime, plus five years determinate sentence, plus goes to Federal pen rather than state. You know what happened in Richmond when they instituted PE? The murder rate [one of the five worst at the time of insitution] fell in half. Yes, half. They punished the CRIMINALS, not the entire citizenry. Another "mantra" I happen to like? Crime Control, not Gun Control. I'm not going to reply to each time, but you put words into my mouth that I never have or would. I place a great deal of value on human life. But you miss one thing. When it comes down to it, I happen to value mine just a bit more than most other people's. We don't need compromises. The best way to reduce crime is to remove criminals. Enforce laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS, and let me own, buy, use, etc. firearms as I please. But the dishonesty, disrespect and selfishness of many of the anti-gun people infuriates even moderates like myself. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Who said military leadership? We're talking about the legislative executive and judicial branch, unless by leadership you are referring to the President. My concerns are with the federal government. The military is a whole other set of issues. And I don't fear the Army/Navy/Air Force because there are so many people required to make it work. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

It's called giving an example. FBI and DOJ don't always give the whole picture. The only thing I'm having a hard time keeping track of is how many times I've asked how it is that you differentiate between a lobbyist, an advocate, a special interest and a concerned citizen. So, how do you make the distinction? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You haven't taken the time to type in all the cases of legal gun owners using guns to defend themselves, either. You also haven't taken the time to type in all the cases of "illegal" gun owners using guns to defend themselves. [illegal meaning unregistered, banned, or didn't "qualify" for carry] witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Don't leave out The Ten Things You Can't Say In America by Larry Elders. Very good book. [only has one chapter directly relevant to this discussion, but is still a good read] witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You can ask them. Besides, the majority of NRA members only pay their membership. By law, NRA is not allowed to use that for "lobbying." That's why they created the NRA-ILA [Institute for Legislative Action]. The main membership goes towards admin costs and magazine production. So, when a politician stands up for gun rights, he is being bought and sold, but when he stands up for gun control, he is voting his conscience? Come on. People disagree, so they elect politicians who disagree. Again, I ask, how do you differentiate lobbyists from advocates from special interests from concerned citizens? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Yeah, there's the Brady Campaign, AGS, NAACP, ACLU, yada yada yada. How do you differentiate between and advocate and a lobbyist? Between citizens with concerns and "special interests?" witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You assume that there would be no dissention in the ranks [as we saw at the start of the US Civil War]. Also, you assume the full force would be brought to bear. Ever heard of Justice Township? Remember Ruby Ridge and Waco? The government does, and they're scared shitless of any kind of repeat. For now. You assume it's use them or don't need them. The fact that they are THERE deters the government. It deterred the Japanese in '45. [if you dont know, ask] witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Thank you very much for the enlightened quote. I'll have to hold that one on file. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

As I have stated, I don't hold the law in disregard. I stated that I would if a law were passed that attempted to take a freedom that is not theirs to legislate. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, according to you, if they only killed a few each year, we'd be a utopia that London and everywhere else should want to be like. A few dozen instead of thousands? Sounds like an improvement. [in my understanding, an "improvement" means better, not ideal or best] Ideal and best are zero, but that just isn't going to happen. Besides, how many "loonies" could have ben stopped if a responsible citizen had been present and carrying a firearm? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

For the second time now, I apologize. I mistook one of your posted idea/stat/facts from another thread [poll: who owns uses] with one an acquaintance brought up recently in a face to face discussion. It was in reference to the statistic that says "you are 43 times more likely to shoot your family than an intruder if you keep a gun in the home." That stat is complete garbage. It counted shootings of anyone in the house by anyone inside or outside with any gun, but stated in its conclusions "the homeowner and the homeowner's gun." Actually, I'd be interested to know how many of the stats you quoted were obtained by Janet Reno's DOJ, before Ashcroft's. Plus, I thought it was fairly obvious I don't trust big government or it's bureaucracies. [I'm libertarian, not Republican. I don't see all that much difference in the two parties.] Regardless, the DOJ FBI stats aren't always what they say they are, either. For example, in stats for acquaintance killings, the FBI defines acquaintance so broadly that it becomes inflated tremendously. THe FBI includes pimps, drug dealers, gang members, taxi drivers, bank tellers and others as acquaintences. To see what the numbers REALLY say, you have to look to how they got to those numbers. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

care to share what that reason is? You said it yourself. "They have more homogeneous populations, and they're less crowded." They also have almost no gangs and less drugs running through. Why is that? I've seen 50 page dissertations on that answer. Our inner-cities are violent. Why? Too big to say here. But it's not simply becasue there are guns are there. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

So you're saying laws don't work? You're saying what matters is what someone decides to do? That laws only stop the lawabiding? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I do believe people are entitled to act as they please. I didn't say they were always right to do so. I believe in a free society, with PERSONAL responsibility. I'm saying taking away freedom is the same as taking away freedom, and it's always wrong for a government to do to its people. Well, the slaves tried fixing the courts too. Remember the Dred Scott(sp?) case? Well, we haven't gotten that far yet, thankfully, and I hope we never do. I was answering your question that was posed in a hypothetical future. Right now, I am working to fix the system [read: government as a whole] and limit the courts back to their intended role. I happen to read the constitution very closely, and don't believe in trashing ANY part of it, even those that don't concern me as much. I don't want to start over. I want to bring things back onto the tracks leading in the original direction. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, you could pick any pair of names; any location, any presumed ethnicity, any religion. It's easy to pick on rednecks here in Texas, but the concept is the same regardless. Right, you can chage all those things. But it seems to be Jose and Carlos, or Malcom and Shebazz, a lot more often than Billy Bob and Jimmy Dean. The crime is happening in certain places for a reason. The reason is not the guns. You mentioned Texas, and someone has quoted rates for Houston or Dallas. What I haven't seen is any stats for tiny little towns in the middle of nowhere in Texas, where the number of guns to the number of people is a whole lot higher. Why? The guns in the little town don't get used to kill people as often as the few illegal guns in the cities. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I explained that in a recent post. No, I'm not a bad person and I won't and don't go around randomly shooting people. The best estimate of guns being used to defend people from violent crime is somewhere between one and two million times, every year. There is no specific number for many reasons. The truth depends on what is fact. You appear to accept things as fact that I believe are complete lies. I am not ignoring anything. Statistics are only valid as what they measure. I look beyond what they tell me to what they are showing me. "I believe what I see, I don't see what I believe." Look back in this thread to when kallend mentioned the "43 times more likely." I refuted that with facts of the study and did not recieve a reply. Besides, I can say everything I just quoted about you and the gun control lobby. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

And so did the people who stopped him. Which is why they were able to stop him. He had obtained it long ago by legally purchasing it. Passed all the background checks. He did not have any felony convictions. Totally competent. He had been fired recently by someone present. Box-cutter. Did you mean to set this up? How many thousand people in NYC and DC would disagree with you. But if maybe the pilot(s) had been armed with a gun loaded with frangible rounds, maybe they'd all be alive today. Besides, going postal doesn't happen all that often. Something like 85% of all crime is committed by less than 10% of all criminals [I'm sure you can find the DOJ stats for that one]. I'm worried about career criminals, or as I call them, thugs. round and round we go. OK, AGAIN, violence happens here. Right. It happens because guns are here. WRONG. It happens for too many reasons to mention, but the largest one I see is inner-city illegitemacy and inner-city drug market / gang abundance. Didn't you say the people getting knocked off in your neighborhood are gangbangers and drug dealers? Owning a gun does make me feel manly in that I believe it's a man's job to defend hearth and home. It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling deep down. That feeling comes from knowing I CAN DEFEND MYSELF AND MY FAMILY. as an aside: why are pro-gunners "lobbyists" and anti-gunners "advocates" in your vocab? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Let's see. I'm not a thug, and I don't hurt others. I don't break laws. I have a clean conscience. They have no conscience. The courts interpret the law. When judges are deciding what is right and wrong, things are already bad. Their job is to mediate and interpret, not decide morality. I vote, and I do jury duty. Bank robbers and rapists think the same way. If each person is entitled to act in any way they want, who is to judge if you refute the jurisdiction of our court system and laws? Nobody? Do you truly think anarchy is better than democracy? People ARE entitled to act the way they want. I judge people around me just the way they do me. This is why I will live someplace predominantly Christian and that values freedom and responsibility. That's not anarchy, THAT'S civilization and democracy. What you are professing is socialism. Would you say the slaves were wrong for taking their freedom? After all, the law, and the courts' interpretations of it, said one thing, but they did something else. The courts, and the government are not always right. On most any other topic, you'd be the first to agree with me. Didn't you have a few things to say on the topic of "I'm from the government, I'm here to help?" witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Um, just in case you weren't aware, a person can cover 21 feet in approximately one second, less if you're in good shape. Moving out of the way is good, but moving and drawing is better. FYI: cops are generally legally justified, for the most part, if you close into 20.99999 feet after they say stop, don't come any closer. Once again, I'll take the advice of the boys in blue on this one. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

And what did they stop him with? That's my point. You're looking at only half the score. [analogy] Hubby goes to a ball game. Indians versus Yankees. Hubby gets home, and the wife asks him who won. He says "The Indians scored six runs." [/analogy] So what's the problem? He didn't tell her who won. You have to look to both scores. Just because one side has a lot of scores, you have to look to how many times the other side scored. Application: Yeah, a lot of people die because someone shoots them. But how many people live because someone saved them with a gun? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*