Kennedy

AP news on Yahoo just because I know Billvon will love this Appeals Court Reinstates Gun Lawsuit By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer SAN FRANCISCO - A federal appeals court Thursday reinstated a wrongful death lawsuit against the gun industry in a decision expected to re-ignite debate over legislation immunizing gun makers from being sued for crimes committed with their products. Thirty-three states already have laws exempting gun manufacturers and distributors from such suits. The House in April passed a bill to extend the prohibition on such suits nationwide and President Bush (news - web sites) has said he would sign it. Senate Democrats have threatened to filibuster the proposal. The 2-1 ruling by the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) reinstates a lawsuit filed against gun manufacturers and distributors whose weapons were used by a white supremacist who shot a Filipino-American postal worker to death and wounded five people at a Jewish day care center in a 1999 Los Angeles-area rampage. A Los Angeles federal judge in 2001 had thrown out the case, filed by families of the victims against Georgia-based Glock Inc., China North Industries Corp., RSR Management Corp. and RSR Wholesale Guns Seattle Inc. The case was filed under California negligence and wrongful death statutes. Messages left with attorneys for the companies were not immediately returned Thursday. Survivors claimed that several weapons companies produced, distributed and sold more firearms than legal purchasers could buy. In addition, they claimed the industry knowingly participated and facilitated an underground illegal gun market. "I believe this is the first federal court of appeals decision to sustain a claim like this one," said Peter Nordberg, an attorney for the plaintiffs. Since 1998, at least 33 municipalities, counties and states have sued gun makers, many claiming that manufacturers, through irresponsible marketing, allowed weapons to reach criminals. None of the suits has resulted in a manufacturer or distributor paying any damages. Private groups, including the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (news - web sites), also have sued, saying guns "led to disproportionate numbers of injuries, deaths and other damages" among minorities. That case was thrown out of federal court in July. The gunman in the 1999 shootings, Buford Furrow, is serving life in prison without parole. The Senate probably will consider the immunity bill early next year, said Will Hunt, spokesman for Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, a leading proponent of the legislation. Craig believes he has the votes to force the bill through the Senate despite filibuster threats, Hunt said. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

so is this and this and this and this and this and this too witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I'm not saying the choice is mine to make at all, or President Bush's. Who said I was for the US policy in Iraq at all? And are you saying the Iraqis had it better under Hussein before the US and allied forces removed him? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

There is none! We're talking about 132 years ago No evidence from 132 years ago? Wow, and here I was discussing the history of kilts and the intrigues of Edward I and II just the other day. All sides found significant evidence to back their assertions, and that discussion went as far back as, oh, about 1,320 years ago. So is there no evidence of your claims because it's SO old, or is there evidence to the contrary and none to your own viewpoint? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Yes, but like PhillyKev told you, situations here and there are a little different. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, I show you evidence, and your rebuttal is "sniker." Not a valid criticism of the source, not a source with contradictory results, but "sniker." Now you ask me to prove a negative. Is that a cop out or what? And we agreed they were not disbanded, so stop using that word. I have news for you. In 1871, people didn't need "a reasonable excuse" to own a gun. There was no "excuse," it was expected that you have one or more. This is the last time I respond to you until you provide evidence to your claim that mass numbers of KKK members took the NRA and made it their new bastion of hate. (ps - it's honorable. Like I said, that little 'check spelling' button is real handy.) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Don't forget my alma mater state, Maryland, and DC. 300 murders a year in Baltimore, and DC regaining the title Murder Capitol of America (per 100,000). witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Do your homework. Even when concealed carry was restricted or denied, there were exemptions to allow firearm transport to target shoots, armorers, dog training, and hunting, among other things. And why should we go back from right to carry? You have not responded to Lott's study, or to Kleck and Gertz. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I really don't think there is any left now in 2003. It is clear that they are not related today. It is also clear that they are not the same oganisation that they founded in 1871. So again, show me one shred of evidence to back your claim that the NRA of 1871 took up the goals/causes/actions of the KKK. 1870 Force Acts (KKK Acts) passed by Congress ­ seek to enforce 15th Amendment by giving Federal protection for black suffrage, and authorize the use of Federal troops against the KKK. These acts are declared unconstitutional in Cruikshank v. U.S. in the 1880s. Federal Troops! the KKK is around today yes... but I bet they were nowhere to be found in the handful of years following this! OK, so show me evidence that the KKK stopped its actions after 1870, or that "they were nowhere to be found." I know they slowed, having a rather large force against them, but show me something saying they were out of action. Objectively speaking, It would... Unfortunately though, it didn't. Come on man! Now if you've read this far (and not been sidetracked by any spelling errors I might have made) tell me, if the 'colors' werent' using public washrooms until 1875... and even that new right granted was practically revoked in 1883; They weren't allowed on the same damned trains until 1896 (and STILL couldn't be in the same carts as whites)... Tell me you think the wonderful NRA, in 1871, was fighting for the right of the black man to carry a gun. Read accounts of southern blacks becoming NRA members to take advantage of programs distributing old military rifles. Or read the history of the phrase "saturday night special." In 1871 the NRA wasn't fighting for anyone's rights at all. If you'd read the link to NRA's page, they started as an organization to promote marksmanship. Clayton E. Cramer, "The Racist Roots of Gun Control," Kansas Journal of Law & Public Policy, Winter 1995 "The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro- Americanist Reconsideration," by Robert J. Cottrol and Raymond T. Diamond, Georgetown Law J. **there are many better sources, but these are a good start witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

There is a such thing as a Federal law. Set a federal law and let the individual states work around it. And there's such a thing as our Constitution. We never gave our central government the power to make any laws it likes. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

That says there are a lot of guns in the country. Where does it say everyone there has one? Last I recall, Hussein was very giving towards certain groups and, well, used nerve gas on others. Just because there are a lot of guns does not mean there is an equal distribution of guns. So, please provide evidence that nearly every Iraqi had a gun. And as I recall, there's basically been a war going on there with and without us since the lines were drawn. Hussein did not rule the entire country. People in the north did prevent themselves from being wiped off the map, despite tanks, chemical agents, being severely out numbered and having outside support ebb and flow like the tides. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Why is it when you refute one argument, they ignore that and move to another, and when you have covered them all, they go back to the first? And you know the "assault weapons" in the ban are nothing like what soldiers carry. Those have been covered since 1934 or so. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I never said I would want to limit guns to those of that time period. so I am don't know what you are trying to say. I recommend reading before posting. The automobile, printing press and the computer and internet were not invented nor designed primarily to kill people. Thta makes those items different. You cannot compare apples to oranges and expect a valid argument. You said the firearms of today should not fall under the second amendment because of greater capacity. I asked why the greater capacity of other objects should not exempt them from other amendments. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

He was refuting your statement that guns' value for self defense argument is bull$hit, not saying concealed carry makes a state a better place to live. But if you check the studies, states with shall issue and no license laws do have lower crime rates. Makes them sound a bit nicer in my book. (ps - the check spelling button is quite handy) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Show me one shred of evidence stating the NRA took up the KKK's crusade. Show me one piece of scientific research or analysis showing their goals have anything in common. "fighting any form of limitation or restraint" That would mean they're against keeping guns from "negros," wouldn't it? I think you meant disbanded. And I have news for you. The KKK is still alive and spewing their own brand of hate. The bedsheets never left, they just got folded up. Not too many KKK members would have been fond of a 'gun club' founded by a Yankee general in cooperation with a Yankee president, don't you think? (ps - the check spelling button is really quite handy.) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

That is not what you said when you mentioned the interpretation. If you are allowed to carry what the average footsoldier carries, then conversely you should not be allowed to carry anything else. Why does one denote the other? I wish kallend were as interested in rebuffing your poor arguments as some others. Oh I love this answer. I'm all for that, if you ok with the media being restricted to the printing press, citizens having no vehicles faster than a horse and buggy, computers and the internet not falling under the first amendment because the framers could not possibly foresee the immense power that could be packed into one. If you limit guns to those of the time-period, why not all other tools and machines? They foresaw change, and they gave us what we needed to cope with it. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

um, when they're making decisions based on the law, not legislating fom the bench. I know judges know more about me than the law (generally), but don't tell me you trust them all. Let me tell you a story. My uncle was a detective for 30 years. Somewhere in that tenure, he was investigating gang/drug activity. Well, seven gang bangers decided to pay him a visit one night. Except he wasn't home, his wife and a friend were. The friend answered the door to seven felons bent on assault and general mayhem. He solved the problem with a WWII issue .45 and by shouting to my aunt to get the shotgun. The results: two dead felons, a new scar for my uncle, and my aunt's first time firing shots in anger. Care to tell me they could have handled seven thugs with martial arts and a knife? Does it say in the Bill of Rights that playboy and hustler can operate? Does it say the internet should not be regulated? Does it say you should not have your hands cut off for theft? (who says it's cruel and unusual?) Guns do not qualify as arms under the the second amendment? What does? You seem to be ok with self preservation. Why not allow the best tool for the job? Why restrict the good guys? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

OK, that's stretching it a BIT far, don't you think? I don't like the coffee, I take it when I have to. I don't like men that way ever. And judging from past experience, I like my women white, black, yellow, and purple. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

The joke was the mistake second half of the sentence, not the mistake in the first. brief history witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

A judge can decide anything he damned well pleases, but that black robe doesn't make him right. (except in his own courtroom) not your day, huh? It only offers the protection you can ensure for yourself. Maybe that's why the framers thought it was important? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

ahhhh, the voice of reason.... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I was waiting for a chick to bring up something like: "blah blah blah the way I like my men; warm, strong, rich, can keep you up all night loing, blah blah blah" Me? I only drink the vile black concoction found at police stations and trading floors around the globe, and only when I have to. I prefer a jager bomb to keep me going [I need caffeine at night more often than the morning]. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I have the right to bare my arms anytime I want, even when it's cold outside. As to my right to bear arms, is no more absolute than any other right. Just as no law is anymore binding than your decision to obey it. Hence the balancing act the Supreme court applies to so many other vital issues. e.g. Free speech not including shouting fire in a crowded theater. Individual rights versus good of the whole, etc. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

What certain arms are you referring to, and maybe we can discuss it civilly this time? Not have as much power? Go tell that to the ACLU. Or do you mean that its intent and meaning has been obscured and diminished over time thorough poor legislation and poor judicial review? If that's the case, I agree with you. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Right, this shows you're up on hunting trends. Handgun hunting is growing faster than any other aspect. And to have you know, I was along on hunts where a gentleman took a deer, a boar, and a black bear with a .44 magnum revolver. Well, I suppose 2.5 million prevented crimes is bullshit. OK. So if preventing crimes is bullshit and you request I not say self defense.... collections, heirlooms, the challenge of marksmanship. By the way, it's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*