jfields

You take credit cards? Schweeet! Justin

Wuss. Justin

And I've dropped from a peak of #8 to a lowly #13. I am so ashamed. Justin

Steve, The original discussion was about someone on Prozac doing a tandem. The conversation has completely diverged into tandems and drugs (not just anti-depressents), with no remaining connection between the two.

Afternoon, Michele. Thanks for continuing the discussion flame-free. I appreciate it, and will try to reply in kind. Not that I have any right to "pass judgement" on your situation in any way, but even if I did, I would still have no objection with what you did. I feel like the perception is that I feel all mental illness should be untreated or seen as a failure of the individual. That is not the case. I explained a little bit about my role in helping a family member with a very clear case of bipolar. I don't think she is a bad person. I don't think she could "just suck up and deal" or "freakin' get over it". However, she does need to improve the coping skills she applies to her situation. Her medical professionals said the same thing. I've tried working with on that, with some success. She is on much less medication than she once was. The first issue I have with our society's use of medications is when they are haphazardly prescribed and/or taken. From your description, you did absolutely nothing of the sort. You waited much longer than most people in your shoes probably would. You had a medical need that you solved. Once the problem had been fully addressed, due to various factors, you got off the medication. That is as it should be. Drugs are a tool to be used carefully. Contrast your agonizing over whether to take medications with people that do so right away, without any consideration about the consequences. I find the "when in doubt, pop a pill" mentality to be a growing cultural problem. To clarify once again, I don't believe that applies to you. It is about the people who see prescription drugs almost recreationally. I never specified SSRI's when talking about people taking drugs on a whim. I never mentioned anything by name, except in the context of certain drugs being marketed on television to the public. I am not knowledgeable about SSRI's, nor did I ever claim to be. My problem is with the mentality itself, seeing those types of powerful medications as harmless or insignificant. I think you misunderstood my comment on genes. I do care for my daughter and would do everything within my power to help her. That said, she is in fact very likely to have at least one illness. Both my wife and I suffer from allergies. I have gross toe fungus (sorry for the TMI) and my wife has exercise induced asthma. There are other things (diabetes, bipolar, cancer) in our families as well. Chances are she will get at least some of these. Do I think my wife and I are bad people for possibly passing these genes on to our daughter. Nope. But does our culture lend itself toward increasing some of these characteristics in the gene pool where other cultures don't? I think so. Some of the things we are doing now will probably make diseases themselves more potent in the future. That goes to the antibiotic-resistant bacteria discussion. With the combination of weaking our immune systems and strengthening the bacteria strains, I believe we are setting ourselves up for big problems later on. Even if you remove the physical aspects completely, are we socially selecting a path of chemical dependence? Once again, maybe. It troubles me. Sit down and watch a night of network television. How many ads to you see for prescription drugs? Why are they trying to advertise to the masses? Is the message that casually taking this or that brand drug is normal and the doctor is merely a formality? They come across saying "Our drug is great! You should take some. Just get a doctor to write you that pesky prescription. Oh, by the way, FREE SAMPLES!" I dislike the message, and its effect on people. Call the whole big scenario negative social evolution. I feel it is a step backwards. Note that this in particular has nothing whatsover to do with the relationship between doctor and patient. It is not sound medical advice. It is not based on a valid medical need. It is the establishment of some relationship between phamaceutical manufacturer and potential buyer. Health is almost irrelevent. It is marketing to increase sales, regardless of actual need. The people that fall prey to such tactics when they don't really need something are the ones who should "just freakin' get over it". Chances are they might not really have the problem, or not to the degree where they should begin a nearly perpetual psychological reliance on medication. That isn't even going into perks given to doctors for prescribing certain drugs. That is a whole separate issue. I know people that lactaid without any basis for knowing they are lactose intolerant. They just guess, then follow through for years. There is nicotine water so people can get their fix without lighting up in a movie theater or restaurant. What's up with that? Talk about fostering chemical dependence. Boiled down, I'd have to say my objections are: 1. Use of prescriptions by people that don't need them. 2. Marketing of drugs as an expected part of everyday life. 3. Overuse of drugs creating potential hazards for later. 4. Medications used in place of positive lifestyle changes. 5. Cultural expectations leading toward increased drug use. Nowhere in there do I say that particular illnesses shouldn't be treated, or that anyone needing medication shouldn't get it. I do think we need to be more discerning and cautious about the whole range of issues. Did this clear anything up? Justin

Steve, I'll answer your post now, because it will be more difficult to go back and deal with Lindsey's. I'll get hers later.

Hook, Would you actually want to take a tandem that was double your weight? Ouch!

Steve & Jessica, I'm not sure where you got the impression that I am in favor of just letting people die off. I don't think I said that anywhere. My comment about the gene pool was general, and I think true. Perhaps we are breeding some negative traits back in through our actions. It seems that you feel I have a particular axe to grind with anti-depressents or that I have singled out depression as something not worthy of treatment. Not true. My concern is with the growing tendency to medically treat symptoms rather than causes and the easy availability of powerful drugs that can alter brain chemistry. In your example of people that have put lots of money into expensive educations only to find them too stressful, I'm not sure what to do for them. Perhaps there is a job where they could take advantage of the education in a lateral shift to a different position. For example, instead of being an ER surgeon, someone could become a medical consultant or work in a different practice with less stress. I'm not saying they should chuck their med school education and pump gas. If their current job is a source of stress beyond their ability to deal with, then maybe it isn't for them. Obviously that is a personal issue, but the decision to become chemically dependent isn't one that should be taken lightly. In reference to the comment about antibiotics in beef, well.... yes I eat beef. Do I wish they had less antibiotics? Also yes. We are probably in agreement on the fact that antibiotics get abused even more in livestock. Jessica, I'm sorry if you feel that attitudes like mine kept you away from drugs you needed for too long. I don't know your particular case, and it is not my business to pry. I'm glad you got the medication you needed. Really, I am. My objections are with the people that either don't need medications getting them or people who may possibly benefit getting them as a first resort rather than after serious and thorough consideration. I doubt you took antidepressents without good reason, but many people are not like you. Getting more general and philosophical... While I am not a doctor, I see the human body as something that has amazing self-regulating systems. We can heal from incredible injuries and fend off tremendous amounts of bodily attacks (bacteria, viruses, etc.) without conscious effort. Our brains have evolved into powerful tools with numerous checks and balances. With the world's most complex systems (human bodies) running so well, I have an objection to people altering the basic functioning of their bodies without good reason. Yes, reasons certainly exist, but I am against the casual and sometimes reckless modifications that get made to otherwise healthy people. Going back to the bacterial example, misuse and overuse of drugs don't just harm an individual. They harm our entire society. If you think of this as an arms race or war happening at a microscopic level, we keep upping the ante against the bacteria. Instead of bacteria evolving at their normal rate, our actions are accelerating their reactions. An antibiotic that kills 90% of some bacteria strain really helps encourage the growth and propogation of the resistant 10%. Eventually, some bacteria are completely immune to a particular medication. If we didn't go to meds so quickly and so often, we wouldn't hasten the transition to resistant strains as much. As it is now, we struggle to keep our most powerful antibiotics ahead of the curve of the bacteria. I see analogies between the bacteria evolving in reaction to medicine and human beings reacting toward medicine. Through our increasing use of drugs, are we gradually changing our entire genetic path? Perhaps, and I don't think we should do so lightly. Also, are we changing our social nature to be encouraging of chemical dependency? I'm not talking about accepting, but the step over to encouraging. With the proliferation of advertising and ease of access, will prescription drugs grow in "recreational" use? Then what happens when someone really needs them and they don't work? I think I'm up to about $.06 or $.08, but I have a big budget for conversation.

I don't necessarily think certain illnesses should go untreated. I think that we aren't as discerning as we should be in finding out whether people really have the said illnesses, or to what degree they need medication. I also don't totally fault doctors. As I said, I see it as a broader societal problem. If a person is screaming for meds and their doctor won't prescribe them, they will just find another doctor. The patient can be as much or more of a problem. But where is that person's family? Why aren't they being involved as well? Depending on the problem, family involvement and caring can be a better remedy. As for knowing about the impact of illness, I'll give you a few more details about the example I referred to earlier. A family member has bipolar. It was ignored by doctors then misdiagnosed. The person ended up in a completely manic state and eventually found themself sitting in jail with no memory of what they'd done. While there, the state didn't mess around. Because of the things she was saying, they figured out the issue and gave her lithium. The change was incredible. I visited there and helped in some small ways get her out into the care of a different doctor. She was cycling up and down for awhile, but nowhere near as badly as before. She was gradually whittled down from over a dozen drugs at once to a few. Like I said before, she may be one them forever. But if she honestly needs them, as I believe she does, that is fine. They help her live a happier and saner life. I don't think certain medicines are bad or that certain ilness should go untreated. However, certain people ought not be given drugs just because they want them. Why do we have tons of ads for prescription drugs on tv? The answer is that it is a marketing ploy to have people go in to their doctor and say, "I want this drug". Whether you are ill or not, you are still bombarded by the message that drugs help you live a better life. Got indigestion? Take pepcid, then eat that gutbuster sandwich. Got allergies? Take clarinex, then dance through fields of daisies. Overweight? Take Phen-phen and look trim. Whoops. That one didn't turn out so well. Why don't we just let people wait until there is actually an illness before recommending going for medical help. Some often-abused and easily-obtainable prescription drugs are more potent than illegal drugs, yet there is no "War on Drugs" against them. Anyway, I'm babbling again..... Justin

Nowhere did I suggest that medications don't have valid uses. My issue is partially with doctors that are unwilling or unable to see the bigger picture. Instead of pills, sometimes therapy or psychiatry might be the answer. In the case of heart disease or obesity, perhaps things as mundane as diet and exercise. I like that simplistic approach over something like the "fake fats" in foods that are engineered not to be absorbed in the human body. The other objection I have is that some people are unwilling to make changes in their lives to non-medically remove the source of their problems. Some people work 80-hour weeks in jobs they hate, live with people they don't love, then wonder why they have high blood pressure. In some cases, lifestyle change is more effective than meds. Using depression as an example, yes, there are plenty of people that can benefit from medication where other avenues don't work. But is every person that is a little unhappy for awhile in need of a year's supply of Prozac? No. Going briefly to Jessica's antibiotics example... It is one worthy of discussing. Our society's willingness to hit every sniffle with antiobiotics has caused problems. Do we all really need antibacterial handsoap? There is a growing medical feeling that many of our autoimmune problems and allergies are a result of our immune systems not getting properly "trained" by exposure to germs and allergens. Is the very sanitary nature of "civilized" societies actually breeding autoimmune weakness back into the gene pool? The fact that we do prescribe drugs so often has led to more and more bacteria that are increasingly resistant to antibiotics. Sometime, when we really need to crush a life-threatening infection, we won't be able to do so because it will be immune to all the remedies we have been overusing. This aquired immunity to medication is built up over time. Aside from the physical aspects, are we in some sense socially engineering ourselves a future of highly-medicated people that can't cope without chemical crutches? In some small way, I believe that medicine should have a stigma, if for no other reason than to instill the respect powerful meds deserve and to help save them for the times when they are really needed. After a childhood of hastily-prescribed ritalin and an adulthood of valium and prozac, what do you then offer someone when they begin to feel blue again? The objections I have aren't with people who really need meds. I'm not an unfeeling bastard that thinks people should commit suicide because someone withheld depressions meds from them. I just feel that our medical system and society hasn't been living up to our duty to instill non-medical coping skills and to present alternatives to medication where it might not be needed. I have an extended family member with bipolar. Her world before and after meds were night and day. Right now, she does need them. However, doctors and family are teaching her to deal with some of her issues in other ways. From a max of around 13 simultaneous prescriptions, she is down to about 2 or 3. She may end up on them for the rest of her life. Who knows? I just think we need to me more judicious in our use of medicine. I think the discussion is interesting, and I hope my opinions don't anger too many people, even if they are different. It is just my personal $.02. Justin

Michele, As I said at the outset, my comment was not directed at any individual. Most specifically not at you, despite your being the post I read before replying. There are valid reasons for medications, but it just my opinion that they are way overprescribed. Please don't take my comment as being aimed at you. Ditto anyone else perhaps seeing it that way. Justin

Let me start off by saying that this is NOT directed at any particular individual here or elsewhere.... [insensitive rant] I think our society is way too chemically dependent. We have taken to prescribing drugs for everything. Depressed? Pop a pill. Have a hyper kid? Give 'em drugs. High cholesterol? Don't exercise, take this pill daily. Come on, people! Doctors are way too fast to diagnose "disorders" and prescribe drugs. People as patients are equally willing to try a quick fix instead of examing the roots of the problems. There are tons of kids that get defined as "ADD" or "ADHD" and get medicated where they are really just a little wound up and in need of some more disciplined caring parenting. Some people that are "depressed" ought to change their jobs and hop off the gerbil wheel they have been running on all their lives. While there are some valid reasons for people to take medications, we shouldn't just jump at the chance. There are people who think they might have once had a reaction to milk once so they decide they are permanently lactose intolerant and take still more pills. It is almost like people think it is cool to have some affliction requiring drugs. In my (medically uneducated) opinion, I think lots of the people that are perpetually on medications, even under doctor's orders, really just need to freakin' get over it! They need to look at themselves, their life and evaluate where they want to be and what they want to be doing. Then take steps to get from point A to point B. [/insensitive rant] I'll leave you with some lyrics... Justin

From your picture, I thought you had it on under your shirt. Someday I'll get to a decent DZ and boogie. I've tried once and got weathered out... Justin

1. Dad 2. Husband 3. Skydiver 4. Geek 5. Cynical atheist Justin

We still talking cars, or have we switched to particular people?

What did you put under "Pets" and "Hobbies", and how much overlap was there?

I usually take several strong shots before manually replacing the registry.

Here are some more resume blunders, specifically for the ladies: 5. Putting "Real Blonde" as a skill. 4. Citing "Skreamer's Skool of Skydiving Spotting and Animal Imitations" under education. 3. Forgetting to mention porno roles. 2. Revealing "Nun" as prior profession. 1. Listing Clay as a reference.

Donna, Mine will probably be a little different, because I already have an A license. I was planning to do some harness time regardless of what the "requirements" are, because I want the refresher for myself. Lucy is fine. She pretty much only cries when she has a reason to do so. She regularly sleeps 5-6 hours through the night. From what I've heard, that is stupendous for a 1-month old. Four new pictures. Justin

Yeah, Chuck, I suppose I should get off my lazy butt and go look there.

How do recurrency dives work? What type of training is involved and is there a specified sequence to the dive? I haven't jumped since Feb. 9, and am planning to start back up again the first week in June. I didn't jump during my wife's last few months of pregnancy and my daughter's first month. Now it is time to get back up into the air.

I didn't read as carefully as I should have either. Thanks for the correction. I didn't mean to start inaccurate information. Justin

My website is a mixture of html and asp that was written in notepad, EZPad and FrontPage. I agree that Frontpage code is ugly as hell. But it handles my database integration for jumplog statistics pretty well with minimal effort. I'm not web guru, but I think my site is at least decent. I had a lot of fun making it and getting it to look fairly uniform and halfway aesthetic. One thing that drives me nuts about most web pages is that they are all in Arial or Times New Roman. Get some new fonts, people, for god's sake.

Anyone get video?

I hope the "newbie" jumper gets past this and continues skydiving. I'm sure the instructor would have wanted him to. Best wishes to all around. Thanks for posting without jumping to any conclusions. As sad as these posts are, the rest of us should still read them to learn any applicable lessons. BSBD Justin