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Hey Nick, I read your post with a lot of interest. I have been thinking the about the same issue for a while. I learned to skydive in 2003 with S/L progression at a small Cessna DZ. I got to 3000m with about 30 jumps. But I had work through that all by myself. And I'm proud of it. At that DZ roughly 1/10 people who do a FJC also continue onto student progression. After that another 1/10 will continue to do a full license. So a lot of people decide sky diving is not for them even though they started and payed for instruction. Most of the quitters" quit after 2-5 freefall jumps. This seems to be the breaking point and I completly agree. My most terrifing jump ever was my first 3sec delay. The next few jumps were not much better... I prayed for a weather hold, I longed for the plane to break yet I continued to go to the DZ and pulled through without any noticeable incidents. I think this is the part where the weeding takes place. If you pull through, you have every right to be in the sky! You have lots of canopy time and most importantly, you have conquered your fear.... alone. On average you need 50-60 jumps until you a hold solo license. And fuck, your not scared like a chicken when doing a hop'n'pop from 3000 feet. I learned how to spot while still a student, how many skydivers today know how to spot ? I leanred basic RW skills with an instructor before recieving a license. I did not even have to pay for his ticket. It's part of progression. Seeing someone in freefall the first time is a big deal. I jump mastered static line students with about 150 jumps. Of course no FJC's and after thurough instruction including throwing my mentor out of the plane on a static line. I don't want to miss these skills. Still there are a few other reasons besides the obvious weeding why so many would be jumpers quit jumping before attaing a license(There is only "the license" here in Germany): Money: You only have put up front roughly a third of the cash that an AFF course would require. Quitting does not make the financial loss that big. If somebody puts up 1500EUR for an AFF course they most likely will pull through. Time: Getting your license will take between one and two years depending on talent. It's unlikley though that at that particular DZ you will have license in under a year( with winter jumping). This makes some people impatient. Since it's weekend only DZ and the weather in Germany really sucks you have to be at the DZ every weekend when weather permits. Girlfriends and family do not often not comply. Then there is multitude of other personal reasons to quit. lost a job, moved away, got a kid and on and on... A lot can happen in year. Yet nearly all of the people that finished their license there are still jumping. Often now at bigger DZ's. If skydiving was like this all over the world, we would have less than half as many jumpers... Only the really determined would pull through, but these have gone through a riggurous darwainien selection.

Can you give me the link to the original thread, I can't find it. Or what to search for... thanks..

http://www.isnichwahr.de/redirect21580.html is this fake ??

Thats just wrong, you can practice flying headdown on your own. The important thing is to not hold it longer that 5 seconds and face 90° from the jump run, then go to your belly or sit whatever you're comfortable with, relax check altitude and heading, then try again. Where is this unsafe people ? You'll feel if you're flying Headdown or not, feel falling into the tube. Once you're comfortable doing that, get someone experienced as a reference. You should definatly learn sitflying first.... And it should be your natural fallback position. You will develop a better feeling for the air with each jump. Which will eventually make learning other flying positions a lot easier.

Thats exactly what it depends on, I can't believe that that student went out the door seriously believing that he will have a malfunction. If so it's probably not that funny.... If it causes him to mess up the jump... He should make Jokster pay. believe it or not I do work with students, static line though but none the less. We always have alot of fun, with jokes of this kind, although I would never let a student jump who seriously believes such a thing. Exactly, one must understand what you can say to womb, but generally saying this is as idiotic joke, is just as wrong.

Dude, dont't cry please, it was just fun, people taking eveything so seriously are really annoying me. We're here to have fun !

That maybe... but I've seen footage of the jump. At least on exit, it's in a documentary on German TV every once in a while. He must have deployed the drogue later. --john

I think you are actually referring to sensory overload. After every jump that gets less. As stated this was an experienced skydiver so I think this can be probably be ruled out. --john

Hy, I've learned stable HD recently. I can say, that it helped me enourmously being able to fast transitions in all directions in a sit. When popping out of HD I could immeniatly go into a sit from any position without corking to much, I would loose a maximum of 20ft verticly and 15 ft horizontily. After stablizing I could cartwheel back into HD,and keep trying... Even if the transition didn't work out I would be in sitting again fast, without loosing much speed, and then I could try again. And this what you will probably be doing later on anyway... Just flying HD the wohle way gets a bit boring once you get it right... Transitions are the real fun for me... I would think at your experience level your natural fallback postion would be belly, it was mine... And going to your belly on freefly jump is a not good idea... I think it is important to be safe and comfortable at sitfly including all transitions(Cartwheel, Frontflip Backflip and a fast 360) before attempting HD, you will probably learn a lot faster too... My 2 ct.

Hy ho, I'm not a very experienced freeflyer but just pushing one arm down worked for me, so if you push the left arm down, you will carve to the right and visa versa. Just keep facing the guy you're carving around to not slide to the side. This has worked for me... You'll notice no change in fall rate. This is not very fast though, you'll need to change the symentry of your legs aswell to go around faster... This needs alot of practice.... This is just the way I do it, I'm sure there are alot of people with better technik, which they can share and I'm also eager to read. Blues

Hy guys, thanks for your input, I guess I wasn't really serisously thinking of getting the deal.... But maybe you how it is when you get a good offer, it's exiting and a part of you wants to go for it ! I needed confirmation for my own thoughts, not wanting miss out on a good chance. After I had posted I got pretty much the reaction I had expected.... I will not be getting the deal! You convinced me that I'm doing the right thing ! thanks now I have my own downsize thread

Hy, I have a little over 200 jumps, been jumping a sabre 150 for about 160 jumps. I now have great deal for a new vision 117. It would be loaded at about 1.6 since I'm a light guy, the sabre was loaded at about 1.2. I never had problems with it. Only one screwed landing. but that wasn't bad either Now the question is, should I go for it ? Thanks --john

The vibrations of an earthquake move much faster, than the tsunami itself. So they could sense the earthquake a long time before the aktual wave hits. But heading for higher ground based on an earthquake, which undoughtedly happened, is a phenomenon which is worth exploring.....

Hy, I love our pilot, hes a qualified acrbatic flyer. And loves giving us zero G in our cessna. We have this large rambo style knife next to door to cut away static liners, so this knife one time came out and floated around the cabin scaring the shit out of a stundent. Until the pilot grabbed it out the air! I'll never forget the look in the eyes of that poor fellow

The BPA requires you to repack your reserve every six months whereas german associations require it yearly. So you can jump everywehere in Germany except for Bad Lipp(It's run by the british army). Getting a repack just to jump in there is a tad expensive...

Hy, I've jumped in Bad Lipp 1 or 2 times already. A great and safe DZ. But at the moment I'm a victim of the BPA reserve repack issue But I'll give my rig to Kiwi early next year so I guess I'll be see'in ya around !

Hy, I had the luck to meet Helmut Klothe the inventer of the cypres, on a saftey seminar here in Germany( he startted out skydiving in the club where I started as well). He told us, that the reason they want you to the change the filter every time is because water contains lots of little dirt partikels you can hardly see. These could influence the air pressure reading. And Airtec is always on the safe side. Landing in a mucked up swoop pond could probably clutter up your filter, resulting in innacurate readings. So changing it every time is probably a good idea. Just to keep it safe.

Hy, if you really wanna shock your whuffo freinds, pack some lines of newspaper around you pack-job and in between the fabric of your chute. Then get some talcum powder(is that what its called:-)) and put it in your chute. On opening the newspaper will tear apart and give a real loud bang. The talcum powder will give a white cloud around the parachute. Then get a skydivier freind of yours to yell "OH MY GOD, THE PARACHUTE EXPLODED !" You'll never see faces like that again

the clicky was wrong: http://members.tripod.com/projectpi/Pipeople.htm

Well I think it's part of training we get here. Our Student rigs are all numbered and each one has a so called pack-card(not the reserve card) . Once we finished a jump, we lay out our canopies for a side pack. The pack-card is divided into five check points, after you finish a point you have to get an instructor sign it off. You can only continue after that point is signed, else they'll make open it again. So it's all layed out for us to learn howto pack, I think this is a good system, it makes you feel safe and you certainly know how to pack the day you get your license.

Hy, i'm doing a static line course in a pretty small club in germany. it's mandatory for us to learn how to pack. The instructors say, you jump, you pack, there are no two ways about it. After reading a fair amount of posts on dz.com, i've come to the impression, that students in the us get rented gear and pay for the packjob. Do you guys know how to pack a parachute by yourself, the day you get your A license ? thanks, just trying to figure out whats out whats goin' on beyond the great pond ...

Hy, you check out an canopy configuraiotn utility on a german website. http://www.my-skyworld.de/albatros/listing_d.asp?mscssid=QVJTT6L0D98G9J3SSE0PUAP1RL94ACBD&dept_id=200&tn=1 Just pick your chute and click Designer, next to the size. You can get sone good ideas off that and know exactly which colors are availible. I personally think neon orange with a black stripe or two rule :-) good 'uns --john

Yeah you're right, I think he also junped linked to another guy without actually releasing the rig.

Hy guys, I once saw a video of guy doning that, he deployd the parachute before putting it on. Heres a picture of it. http://www.joejennings.com/slide35.htm Check out the other fotos at www.joejennings.com if you don't already know 'em. Great Quality . blue ones --john

Hy, I took a look at it in a soprts store. The goggle strap keeper seems pretty flat, I think lines would just slip over it. Heres a picture of the rear of the helmet ( I hope the attachment works ) greets ! --john