Pendragon

Well, the three of us agree... -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Not quite. You implied in your original post that the vertical component of speed would be affected by wind. It would not if landing in flat ground. Only your horizontal speed would be affected (as we all know). It could make a difference if, however, you were landing on a hill. There the air is being pushed upwards (hence we can ridge soar in paragliders) - that would affect landings, but in the opposite sense to that you suggested. Richard -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

My learnings were based on discussions we had as a group whilst learning to paraglide. Since hang/paraglider pilots spend quite a bit of time flying relative to fixed objects such as hills (at least in the UK anyway!), these things become important. For example, one question that always stumped newbies was: "If the wind is coming up the ridge, the clouds suddenly come in and you lose all sight of the ground - how can you tell where the ridge is?" People would come up with all sorts of crazy theories about the wind in your face, it being more difficult to turn in the direction facing into wind etc etc... but they're all rubbish. It would be impossible to tell - until you hit it. If you're flying, the airspeed is constant at a given level of control input, and independent of whether you're going up/downwind. The sight picture just serves to fool you. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

I understand exactly what you're saying... but you're fogetting something. After deployment, and once the canopy is flying, you are drifting with the airmass. It has stopped accelerating you. For example, there is no relative wind out of a balloon - even in steady gale-force winds aloft - as you are just moving with it. If you were to try and execute an accuracy landing on top of a balloon, it would not matter whether you landed facing north in a northerly wind or not - both you and the landing target are drifting at the same rate. In a homogeneous airmass moving at constant velocity, you can't pick up more speed in the turn as your relative speed with respect to that airmass is zero. Your perceptions relate only to the ground. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Exactly. You would. for example, experience a much steeper recovery arc on a front riser turn to land. However all that is happening is that you're losing height at the same rate, but with less forward penetration. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

It's clear to me that it's not you're anti-BASE, just looking out for everyone's interests which is, in it's own way, commendable. However, if the situation had been this: Guys in balloon shouting over to guy packing BASE rig to hurry up or he wouldn't make the load. FAA official nearby. You go up to guy packing, remind him that his actions are technically against the law, that there's an FAA official within earshot, and going up in the balloon with a BASE rig on is a distinctly bad idea. ...no-one would mind. Many would commend you on your actions. For sure, people take BASE rigs out of balloons more often than people think - but away from the eyes of DZOs and the FAA, As you said, the guy in question never made the load. Telling him off for trying whilst FAA officials are around - you're on equally good grounds to give him a piece of your mind. Going and getting someone who works for the FAA? Any particular reason??? Some would say you cracked a nut with a sledgehammer, and it is for that most posters have a problem with the way this was handled. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Well, not really. I have - it was one of the most sensible things I did. I did, however, put it in a skydiving container with a piggyback reserve. My reasoning with it was to practise with it in a controlled environment before jumping it from a bridge. So, there's reason #1. Practice for someone starting out. Or have you forgotton what it may be like? So, OK, I know you meant BASE rig rather than BASE canopy alone. Reason #2. It is no longer unreasonable to pull low using a BASE canopy. We know they open quick, are incredibly reliable (if packed correctly) ... I'm not saying I would do it from a balloon (maybe, perhaps ) but if you were going to do it, that would be the way. In all fairness, because you don't understand the motivation, you can't comprehend the action. That's fine, but be careful in imposing your own values on others. Richard -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Hi Olek, See this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2355809;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread ...and try the UK BASE board for a bit more. Find somewhere you won't disturb anyone with your laughter. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Just curious. It was exactly that kind of real experience I was looking for.

Is it just that a fixed point of reference would appear to be moving (as the jumper moves with the airmass) in a crosswind, and so a jumper subconciously turns into wind to "fix" the point? -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Think about it Sam; cross-wind from right to left (rather than left to right ). short delay - bridle is being blown over your arm... hence my question. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Is potential bridle entanglement only really an issue for hand-held, and not for stowed (good throw taken as a given) iin crossw-wind conditions? So, hypothetically, short-delay slider down in a strong crosswind from an overhung "A" - would stowed always be preferable? -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Jump #s 56 and 57. Always wanted to jump at night, so I was actively looking for the opportunity! Couldn't see the moon, there was so much cloud. Jumped a PD170 @1.15. Landed both times on my feet.

Do you mean in freefall, or under canopy? -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Cheers guys. It was hypothetical, but based on recent experience. I was curious to know what people had observed in such conditions - so that I may continue in my quest for "good judgement" -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

So, heading-performance aside, you're saying that the delay (unless going terminal I presume ) makes little difference with respect to the danger of throwing your PC into a crosswind and ending up with a possible entanglement or hesitation? -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Take an electricity pylon, exit points on either side, both good. True crosswind, straight down the wire. Ideally, on a short(ish) delay, it would be preferable to jump with the wind blowing from the left so that the pilot chute is blown away rather than towards you. Possibly worse for hand-held over stowed. This has to be considered as the jumper is accelerating slowly to match the velocity of the windmass down the wire, whilst a PC will reach that velocity much sooner (thankfully too!

How did you do that thing with your neck? -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Some people obviously have nothing better to do... -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Why? Illegal? Yes. Dangerous/stupid? Depends on whether the person packing the rig did a good job, and pull height. Who's problem is that? Balloon pilot and the jumper. Did it have anything to do with you? I suppose if the FAA reps knew and the balloon pilot got grounded, then yes... but then, how would they know? Do you honestly believe that someone is going to go in just because they're using a BASE rig? One that is packed more critically than a main, and is of a type much less prone to malfunction than a lot of 9-cell canopies experienced jumpers use? Oh, and the guy using it just maybe knows how to do a still air exit? I'm not saying that, technically, you are correct. However, that needs to be balanced against making a mountain out of a molehill - ie making a situation worse by getting involved. A BASE jumper jumping from a balloon with a BASE rig? I think there are a multitude of other things WAY more important to be worrying about at WFFC. Statistically, he's probably right. You may be right. Is it your judgement call or the balloon pilot's? I'd agree with you there. So, why don't you get the guys who: - Land Mr Bill's - Spiral through the stacks - Land downwind in a busy area - Jump out wiithout taking their seatbelt off - Open the aircraft emergency exit door up by the pilot All of the above I have seen, or have read about, happening at big boogies. They all out-rank the attempted BASE-jump-from-a-balloon-must-be-really-bad incident. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

I appreciate what you are saying; if I hang from a rope, the force on the rope is the same whether it is attached to a bridge or a tree. However, when you pull, for example, a front riser down, aren't you effectively deforming the wing, which requires the pilot to overcome the pressure inflating the wing (which we have already established is greater on the higher w/l canopy) resulting in higher riser pressure? Open to suggestions... -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Not quite. The force is equal to body weight, but not pressure. Pressure = force / area and, since area is decreasing (downsize), pressure must increase. Richard -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13

Depends how the weight is distributed between the risers. See: http://www.makeithappen.com/spsj/yourcan.htm Actually, it's rather a good article.

Most notable difference with that change (~10%) will be speed. - It will be faster on landing - Sink rate will be higher (but you'll have higher forward speed remember! ) - Glide ratio will be about the same (need big change to make noticeable difference to this) - Control lines are shorter, so less input required (for turns and flare) - Riser pressure should be slightly lighter In more general for a downsize, but not noticeably applying to a more docile design like the Fusion: - More sensitive to harness input (although that canopy isn't very sensitive to that anyway) - Because of heightened sensitivity, more likely to develop line twists/spin up on opening Not a bad downsize progression at all but, without any knowledge of your landings, impossible for anyone on here to judge your suitability. I would suggest one thing though: regardless of your ability, make sure you are current when you downsize. Risk of hurting yourself (always present when you move to an unfamiliar wing) will be mitigated to some extent. Don't think I've missed anything? Have fun!

There's something wrong with the site. It doesn't have any pictures of me in it. I guess I'll have to help you fix that. Nice one dude; flock on! -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13