likearock

Nice video. It is a little disturbing to see that guy's main flap come loose at 1:07 though. In a close quarters freefly jump, you want all the pin protection you can get.

You don't mention it, but I assume they were asking for money in that letter. True?

Of course you do. That's pretty much all you've been doing here. How do you know those parents were putting God "to the test" as you put it? Perhaps they simply have absolute belief in a church that has consistently demonized science whenever it has suited its objectives. Whether it's evolution, stem-cell research, it doesn't matter. For certain evangelicals, science has always been subordinate to faith. And you yourself reflect that view with your inane "Science will never be greater than love". Under those circumstances, it's a perfectly logical progression for these parents to assume that the science of medicine should also be subordinate to faith. I'm glad to hear you say that. It sounds like you understand that, at least in some cases, science can be more powerful than faith. In fact it is powerful enough to have saved the life of that girl. Without accepting medical science, no amount of faith would be capable of doing that. Whatever negative feelings I have (and I'd characterize them as disgust rather than hatred) are only addressed towards God in your mind. You wrongly assume that I am an atheist. However, unlike you, I don't have the need to trumpet my beliefs over and over again. And any disgust I have expressed in this thread is towards a small minority of religious people, those that believe science should be subordinate or filtered in some way according to their faith. If you need to do that, you're no better than those parents.

Some are. Case in point. Isn't it just wonderful those of you who hold faith higher than science? Science will never be greater than love. Did you even read that link? That poor girl died for the sole reason that her parents thought just the way you do. Go ahead, explain to us how they did the right thing. Show us how what they did was an expression of "love". Just as the taste of apples have nothing to do with yellow, how does this have anything to do with love? Meaning, how do you conclude that I think that way just because I said science will never be greater than love. You can have faith in things besides love and truth. These times are getting so bad, they are going to get much worse, and because of things like this happening, many people will begin to hate God and not the spirit of evil which uses deceptions just like this. These people believed their faith to be greater than what it was. Deception. What deception are you talking about? Like you, they put faith in Jesus. Like you, they read the Gospel. And like you, they believed that faith was more important than science. If you somehow feel they are different from you, you'll have to be more specific in what that difference is. One characteristic of the fruit of the spirit is humbleness. Only God knows those who have great faith. If I walk around believing myself to have great faith, then I walk around with pride and i dont even know it. Look.... I asked you a simple question. You answer with a long-winded sermon and completely ignored my question. I'll ask again: How was what that family believed different from what you believe? If you once again show you need to avoid answering that question, I will just have to assume you have the same set of beliefs.

Some are. Case in point. Isn't it just wonderful those of you who hold faith higher than science? Science will never be greater than love. Did you even read that link? That poor girl died for the sole reason that her parents thought just the way you do. Go ahead, explain to us how they did the right thing. Show us how what they did was an expression of "love". Just as the taste of apples have nothing to do with yellow, how does this have anything to do with love? Meaning, how do you conclude that I think that way just because I said science will never be greater than love. You can have faith in things besides love and truth. These times are getting so bad, they are going to get much worse, and because of things like this happening, many people will begin to hate God and not the spirit of evil which uses deceptions just like this. These people believed their faith to be greater than what it was. Deception. What deception are you talking about? Like you, they put faith in Jesus. Like you, they read the Gospel. And like you, they believed that faith was more important than science. If you somehow feel they are different from you, you'll have to be more specific in what that difference is.

How is the object of their faith false? They believed in Jesus, didn't they? Please explain how their beliefs are any different than yours?

Some are. Case in point. Isn't it just wonderful those of you who hold faith higher than science? Science will never be greater than love. Did you even read that link? That poor girl died for the sole reason that her parents thought just the way you do. Go ahead, explain to us how they did the right thing. Show us how what they did was an expression of "love".

Some are. Case in point. Isn't it just wonderful those of you who hold faith higher than science?

Putting aside the issue that there is no confirmation of your assertion that you've been able to show us, do you really want to get into the business of what a Holocaust survivor should or shouldn't take issue with? Sure, it sounds like a silly thing to get upset with to us. But we haven't witnessed our families starved and humiliated for the sole reason that they were Jews. If they see having their dead relatives baptized as reopening the wound and further traumatizing an already traumatic condition, who are we to judge? I suggest to you that the effort of the Weisenthal group and others had nothing whatsoever to do with a religious objection. Rather, it had to do with acting on the behalf of the sizable population in Israel and elsewhere that have been touched by the Holocaust.

The _State_ of Israel doesn't have any crazy mythology or pointless ritual to protect. Where did you get the information that the state of Israel asked the Mormons to stop? I found this which talks about private groups who objected, but not the government itself.

So you acknowledge Israel's right to exist within pre-1967 borders?

Feel better now?

No, we haven't...but some are asserting that we are "approaching" their torture methods, by the alleged use of "waterboarding". I am simply saying that we have every right, to adopt their methods...across the board, both in battle and in the treatment of prisoners. And my position is whether we have the right or not, we are a better country if we don't.

The enemy chose civilians as "legtimate targets", not us. They made the rules and as far as I'm concerned, we're obliged to play by those same rules. Why "obliged"? We didn't have to play by the same rules to beat Germany and Japan. And we're a much stronger country because of that. Actually, we were losing our a*s...until we adopted the tactics of the Germans and Japanese. There was a point, when our soldiers stopped taking prisoners, we shot Japanese and German sailors in the water and shot Japanese pilots, under their parachutes....just like they had done to us. The US daytime bombing practice was more accurate but had little effect, since it was directed mostly at hardened military targets. The British practice of night-time "area bombing", was directed at the civilian population and had greater effect. Right. But we did not adopt their torture methods, which is what this thread is about.

The enemy chose civilians as "legtimate targets", not us. They made the rules and as far as I'm concerned, we're obliged to play by those same rules. Why "obliged"? We didn't have to play by the same rules to beat Germany and Japan. And we're a much stronger country because of that.

Are you sure of that? Word.

In order for it to be effective, you gotta find someone who truly knows the answer. If the vitctim does not you have wasted time with shoddy intelligence. Which in no way contradicts what I said. Please read more carefully. But there are circumstances where you do know who knows the answer. Again consider the scenario of a ticking bomb. Suppose from the overwhelming forensic evidence, you know who did it, but he won't tell you where it is. What does that study say about that scenario?

Simple logic. Andthe fact that the lack of reliability has been one of the reasons why we have not tortured in the past. People will confess to anything if the pain - or threat of it - is sufficient. You know, although I am personally opposed to torture, I never agreed with the "ineffective" argument. The fact that people will confess to "anything" leads logically to the fact that they'll confess to something truthful if they happen to know it. Especially in a circumstance where their confession can be confirmed and the torture repeated if it was false. I agree that there would be plenty of false confessions as well. That and the fact that I don't want to give our enemies justification to torture us lead to my opposition. But in an event where you absolutely have to know (for example) the location of a ticking bomb, torture could elicit that information.

Of course it would bother me. But if it bothered me to the extent that I belittled other people's tragedy to make a political point, then I'd deserve anything I got in return.

There's no way that's even remotely a valid counter-example. My point didn't even have anything to do with race. It had to do with the ability to respect and not shit all over someone else's pain. No amount of politics excuses his 9/11 remark.

This guy should get over himself. He's just another apologist for Wright. There's no way to finesse "9/11 was the chickens coming home to roost". Wright's is not liberation theology, it's the philosophy of "my pain is the only pain worth respecting." And he's shown just how self-centered he is with his recent actions. He could give a shit whether he's helping or hurting Obama.

?? He does the right thing and that makes you think he should lose?

I think a more accurate perspective is that Wright wants Obama to lose so he can blame the loss on racism and keep playing the victim.

Open letter to Barak Obama: This is just getting ridiculous. Wright saying that the reaction to his hate-filled sermons is not an attack on him but an attack on his church. Then saying that Obama repudiated him only because he's a politician. Come on, Barak. Show some balls and expose this guy for what he is. He's actually making it easy for you by throwing you under the bus. You don't do that, you won't get elected. Wright's going to be out there spouting his bullshit for some time to come. And there's no way you win the election as his bitch.

In fact we're only #15 in oil consumption per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con_percap-energy-oil-consumption-per-capita What do you know, Canada is #13!