Kamkisky

I think getting the stairs to work is likely more about expectations than not being able to work a simple lever. Cooper had just walked up the fully descended stairs. I think it’s reasonable to assume he thought the stairs would fully deploy. I’d think the stairs were fully hydraulic and not gravity going down. So Cooper uses the lever but the stairs don’t go all the way down so he thinks something is wrong and we get the whole interphone episode. Eventually he figures out his weight is going to be enough for him to exit and everything “is good now.”

What I’m suggesting is a plausible plan. You are saying he jumped “ad-hoc,” that is without a plan. That’s the definition of luck. Idiot might be strong and not totally accurate, a better word is scared/panicked. Your story relies on Cooper accepting a change in destination he didn’t have to accept, and that he could not work a lever he was showed how to use (and Ryan just posted has instructions next to it). We both have theories, no one has the ability to prove it.

You don't know if he knows the area well. - three data points: Tacoma/McChord/he just flew over the area. You don't know if he could see the ground. - two data points: the pilots could see the ground/it wasn’t a raging storm, it was a typical PNW November night. You fail to understand that he was delayed having trouble with the stairs. - not applicable. He has only one way out so of course he wants it open and makes efforts to do so. He got it open in time to jump the first city lights. You assume he saw the lights and knew it was BG. -three data points: we have a pilot from the area who was flying in 1971 who says BG are the first city lights coming south/the pilots could see the lights/by going south it’s repeatable to know the first city lights after darkness are BG. You assume he knew the path beforehand. -one data point: he only ever ask for or negotiated or accepted any direction except south You have a theory too. It’s Cooper as idiot jumping at random and who just got lucky. The nice part about that theory is it doesn’t require evidence…it’s just an assumption.

He takes off and SeaTac and sounding area disappears behind them… Darkness = bad. That’s the forest land. That means wait. City lights after darkness = good. That’s the farm lands north of Portland. That means jump. The farm lands of Southern Washington are the region. I’ll flip to my analogy… City lights of Central Valley = good. Jump. Darkness of Sierra Nevada’s = bad. Death. The Central Valley is the region. No special powers required. And the circle you just provided aligns perfectly with jumping when he see the first city lights of BG.

You use predetermined. The argument isn’t he jumped to an exact location. The argument is he jumped into a region. To achieve that all he needed was the plane to fly south at 10k feet, the stairs to open and to know the region. That’s it. It’s not a magic trick. It’s not hard to conceptualize. It’s repeatable. I could do this (but I’m not jumping out of a damn plane unless it’s on fire). I could take off from any of SF/Oakland/San Jose and fly to anywhere as long as it’s east (Salt Lake/Denver/St. Louis/NY/etc/etc…we could pick different cities at the last minute, whatever), because I know Northern California I could land in the Central Valley on flat farmland. I could do it every time from any Bay Area airport. I would only need the plane to fly at 10k feet, to go east and the stairs to be open. He jumped the lights of a region he knew.

Nice. It illuminates from the edge of the dark forest. From the time he says everything is good now (8:05) till the time he jumps (8:11-13)...what would be his view? At first pass it looks to me like he'd catch the beacon off to the side/passing by and BG is about 20 miles ahead. 6-8 minutes. 3 miles per hour.

This article proves *the authorities at the time considered Cooper jumped lights.* I'm at the point of falling to see a counter argument. The pilots could see lights. The authorities thought he may have jumped lights. It makes the most sense to jump lights. He has I-5. He may have had this red beacon. He would have the counter experience of the darkness of the forest north of the Lewis River. He'd have the lights of BG after the darkness. He'd have the lights of Vancouver/Portland ahead. He'd know the time of flight. He knew Tacoma from the air. He knew McChord from the ground. He knew the plane was going south out of Seattle. He had flown over this part of southern Washington just hours earlier. Mac jumped the lights too. Cooper jumped the lights and had a solid idea of where he landed based on I-5 and the BG lights. He knew if he was north or south of BG. He'd know if he was east or west too. I'm close to done on this one...someone tell me why he didn't jump the lights?

The Oregonian - November 27, 1971 That search zone is a lot closer to the modern consensus than I believed was the case in 71. I thought they were searching just north of BG. Here they are south of Orchards. And there's a quote saying they were searching at "other possible drop areas further south." Anyone got anything on this red beacon? Also, what was the original drop zone? Did I just have it wrong thinking it was further north than the southern edge shown in this drawing?

The final score on the boarding: Flo - second to last has some secondary evidence in support of her statement. Gregory - he thought he was last to board and was likely the third from the end. He just didn’t notice Cooper or Bill Mitchell come in after him and take seats further back. Bill Mitchell - he likely wasn’t with the terminal group and runs to catch the flight after calling his folks after getting a standby ticket. He doesn’t notice Cooper boarding because Cooper boards before him. Dan Cooper - he intentionally boards last of the terminal group. He wanted to be last, Bill just ruins that by calling home and running late. Michael Cooper - seems to be conflating things 50 years on.

Fun with AI. Hilariously the combo of Hahneman and comp A actually looks more plausible.

That’s good secondary evidence.

Is there any other evidence besides the one statement by Flo that indicates Cooper boarded second to last? Or is that it?

That’s not what it says… On November 24, 1971, Mrs. HANCOCK stated that the individual who hijacked Northwest Airlines Flight #305, Boeing 727, initially boarded the aircraft in Portland Oregon, and at the time he boarded the aircraft he was: carrying a briefcase which measured about 12 inches by 18 inches and was dark brown or black in color.

Then we have this from Bill’s, which doesn’t even make sense - The subject boarded after MITCHELL left Portland, Oregon.

You're in the two oblivious and one fabulist camp. Ok. I’m not claiming one side here yet. How does Alice know nuanced measurements of his briefcase as he is boarding? Was she back there?

It’s a small plane. A group of people walked out of the terminal at the same time. Four grownups in back of the plane. These guys are close enough to spit at each other. I get he wasn’t the highjacker yet but he was in their immediate space. And that argument goes both ways, Dan wasn’t the highjacker when Flo claims he wasn’t noticeable yet noticed and noted his boarding order. We either dismiss two accounts as being oblivious and a third as a fabulist or we question the accuracy of the fourth. Those seem to be the options.

At some point it doesn’t matter the order of Mitchell or Gregory. There are two men who were either in front or behind Cooper boarding (#2) according to Flo. And both are mere feet from him in the back of the plane. Yet, neither of those men saw him board. How can we explain that? The third man in the rear of the plane has a viable explanation and does claim to have seen Dan board. Michael’s version lines up better with Bill and Gregory’s than Flo’s. That’s a problem for the boarded second to last theory. We have four stories from the four people in the rear. Three of them are easily compatible. One of those stories would make the other three likely incompatible. Am I missing something here?

Flo - SCHAFFNER said that she was standing at the rear entrance to the plane, checking passengers onto NWA Flight 305 in Portland, Oregon. She said that the man, who she later learned was the hijacker, was next to the last person to board the plane. She said that the man did not appear suspicious and did not attract her attention. Alice - On November 24, 1971, Mrs. HANCOCK stated that the individual who hijacked Northwest Airlines Flight #305, Boeing 727, initially boarded the aircraft in Portland Oregon, and at the time he boarded the aircraft he was: carrying a briefcase which measured about 12 inches by 18 inches and was dark brown or black in color. Gregory - Mr. GREGORY said he had not seen this man board the aircraft but remarked that he, GREGORY, was the last passenger on board at Portland. …….. Gregory says he was last to board. But he was likely ticketed and would have been with the other passengers in the terminal. Bill Mitchell was standby and hustled to even make it. It seems Gregory was the last of the passengers in the terminal group to board. If that is true, and what Flo says is true (Cooper is second to last)…Cooper boarded right before Gregory (Mitchell not with group yet). Yet, Gregory didn’t see him? Or somehow Cooper was so far behind the terminal group Gregory could not see him when boarding and thought he was last (with Cooper and Mitchell to come)? Seems improbable. And how does Flo note that he boards second to last but say he didn’t attract her attention. Meanwhile Alice is giving detailed carpenter’s measurements of what his briefcase looked like when he boarded…how does she know? We go from Hal spotting Cooper to moments later Flo saying he didn’t attract her attention and Gregory claiming to have not even seen him board, yet Alice is giving details “at the time he boarded the aircraft.”

I must have got the Flo thing from Bruce’s book. It seems to me we have a he said/she said regarding boarding. She said it first, his version makes more sense. We’d need collaborating evidence akin to: - Hal stating he went to the plane first or commenting on when Dan boarded - A third witness who saw him board Somehow it seems Cooper miracles himself not just to the airport but into the plane. How can a guy board a small plane and only two people claim to have seen him do so and they have totally opposite stories? Wild.

My assumption is the ticket agent, Hal, wouldn’t let anyone past the gate/him until he releases them all. What does he say about order of boarding? If he was tuned in enough to later tell the FBI he noticed Cooper because he was wearing all black and standing off to the side surely he would remember if Cooper loiters the whole time and comes through the line last (with Bill unseen somewhere behind). Standing off to the side and boarding last draws attention too. I’m just looking for more than a he said/she said. Did Hal mention going to the plane before releasing passengers? These are things he should have been able to recall, they are less subtle and nuanced than a random guy wearing black. Flo was considered one of the worst eyewitnesses. And, we don’t know for sure it would have been Flo telling him to hold on. Maybe it’s Alice? And I can see how with the regular gate not operational they were not operating under normal procedures…that’s when things like letting the passenger go before the stews are ready could happen. There is debate between Bill and other passenger on who boarded last, right? Who is that other passenger…middle aged white guy in a suit?

This is all very logical, the issue is it could work both ways. How do we know it isn’t Flo conflating things? She could be mixing Dan up with another passenger pre-skyjacking/during boarding. Is it a straight he said/she said? Or is there something else to go on? I struggle with this because Michael’s version makes more sense. Dan would have had the whole time in the terminal to size up those passengers, so there’s no rationale for waiting there and looking for a sky marshal. It also plays into the initial note. I think he writes it after boarding. How would he know on a holiday flight he’d have a middle seat (in an empty row) for the stew to come sit next to him? There’s just no way to predict that until he is on the plane. The backseat reigns supreme in order of priority…Dan would be better off boarding first. That’s the more straightforward assumption.

Is this a he said she said? Bill doesn’t claim to know when Cooper boarded, just it was before him…correct? Is there anyone else besides Flo making the claim he boarded at the end? Boarding early makes more sense. Michael doesn’t just make a single claim on the point, he makes two. He says Dan tried to board and was rebuffed and then boarded first. Michael is sitting right there. If a stew from inside the plane or on the stairs told Dan something along the lines of hold on/not ready yet/etc Michael would have heard it. I get mixing up a single fact, this would require Michael to fully invent an entire scene that didn’t happen. That’s another level.

Here’s my concern…I can easily see a passenger who just spent 2.5 hours on a 30 minute final leg (of multiple stops) of a flight telling whoever was in front of them they just want to leave. We look back at it as though those interactions with people (he claims he didn’t know they were even FBI) were the chance to get their full story on the record of this historic case…but some of them could have looked at it as the last in a long line of hassle before finally getting to the person waiting to take them home/destination. The way the FBI collects 302s is also problematic. They should have recorded interviews. I know that was policy but it’s insane. So much is lost and then it’s transcribed by someone else and days later approved by the agent. That’s designed to have info slip through the cracks or get slightly twisted.

Yeah, it gets more wild with the not knowing even after the FBI interview. I like his approach though, had a few beers before hearing and had another after and went to bed. If you are going to be accused of skyjacking that’s probably the best way. The Mitchell stuff is odd but Bill claims to have jumped onboard right at the end. Maybe Michael missed him.

Michael Cooper says Dan Cooper boarded first. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsxHUZEG-A&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&embeds_referring_origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com Thoughts?