Kamkisky

At some point it doesn’t matter the order of Mitchell or Gregory. There are two men who were either in front or behind Cooper boarding (#2) according to Flo. And both are mere feet from him in the back of the plane. Yet, neither of those men saw him board. How can we explain that? The third man in the rear of the plane has a viable explanation and does claim to have seen Dan board. Michael’s version lines up better with Bill and Gregory’s than Flo’s. That’s a problem for the boarded second to last theory. We have four stories from the four people in the rear. Three of them are easily compatible. One of those stories would make the other three likely incompatible. Am I missing something here?

Flo - SCHAFFNER said that she was standing at the rear entrance to the plane, checking passengers onto NWA Flight 305 in Portland, Oregon. She said that the man, who she later learned was the hijacker, was next to the last person to board the plane. She said that the man did not appear suspicious and did not attract her attention. Alice - On November 24, 1971, Mrs. HANCOCK stated that the individual who hijacked Northwest Airlines Flight #305, Boeing 727, initially boarded the aircraft in Portland Oregon, and at the time he boarded the aircraft he was: carrying a briefcase which measured about 12 inches by 18 inches and was dark brown or black in color. Gregory - Mr. GREGORY said he had not seen this man board the aircraft but remarked that he, GREGORY, was the last passenger on board at Portland. …….. Gregory says he was last to board. But he was likely ticketed and would have been with the other passengers in the terminal. Bill Mitchell was standby and hustled to even make it. It seems Gregory was the last of the passengers in the terminal group to board. If that is true, and what Flo says is true (Cooper is second to last)…Cooper boarded right before Gregory (Mitchell not with group yet). Yet, Gregory didn’t see him? Or somehow Cooper was so far behind the terminal group Gregory could not see him when boarding and thought he was last (with Cooper and Mitchell to come)? Seems improbable. And how does Flo note that he boards second to last but say he didn’t attract her attention. Meanwhile Alice is giving detailed carpenter’s measurements of what his briefcase looked like when he boarded…how does she know? We go from Hal spotting Cooper to moments later Flo saying he didn’t attract her attention and Gregory claiming to have not even seen him board, yet Alice is giving details “at the time he boarded the aircraft.”

I must have got the Flo thing from Bruce’s book. It seems to me we have a he said/she said regarding boarding. She said it first, his version makes more sense. We’d need collaborating evidence akin to: - Hal stating he went to the plane first or commenting on when Dan boarded - A third witness who saw him board Somehow it seems Cooper miracles himself not just to the airport but into the plane. How can a guy board a small plane and only two people claim to have seen him do so and they have totally opposite stories? Wild.

My assumption is the ticket agent, Hal, wouldn’t let anyone past the gate/him until he releases them all. What does he say about order of boarding? If he was tuned in enough to later tell the FBI he noticed Cooper because he was wearing all black and standing off to the side surely he would remember if Cooper loiters the whole time and comes through the line last (with Bill unseen somewhere behind). Standing off to the side and boarding last draws attention too. I’m just looking for more than a he said/she said. Did Hal mention going to the plane before releasing passengers? These are things he should have been able to recall, they are less subtle and nuanced than a random guy wearing black. Flo was considered one of the worst eyewitnesses. And, we don’t know for sure it would have been Flo telling him to hold on. Maybe it’s Alice? And I can see how with the regular gate not operational they were not operating under normal procedures…that’s when things like letting the passenger go before the stews are ready could happen. There is debate between Bill and other passenger on who boarded last, right? Who is that other passenger…middle aged white guy in a suit?

This is all very logical, the issue is it could work both ways. How do we know it isn’t Flo conflating things? She could be mixing Dan up with another passenger pre-skyjacking/during boarding. Is it a straight he said/she said? Or is there something else to go on? I struggle with this because Michael’s version makes more sense. Dan would have had the whole time in the terminal to size up those passengers, so there’s no rationale for waiting there and looking for a sky marshal. It also plays into the initial note. I think he writes it after boarding. How would he know on a holiday flight he’d have a middle seat (in an empty row) for the stew to come sit next to him? There’s just no way to predict that until he is on the plane. The backseat reigns supreme in order of priority…Dan would be better off boarding first. That’s the more straightforward assumption.

Is this a he said she said? Bill doesn’t claim to know when Cooper boarded, just it was before him…correct? Is there anyone else besides Flo making the claim he boarded at the end? Boarding early makes more sense. Michael doesn’t just make a single claim on the point, he makes two. He says Dan tried to board and was rebuffed and then boarded first. Michael is sitting right there. If a stew from inside the plane or on the stairs told Dan something along the lines of hold on/not ready yet/etc Michael would have heard it. I get mixing up a single fact, this would require Michael to fully invent an entire scene that didn’t happen. That’s another level.

Here’s my concern…I can easily see a passenger who just spent 2.5 hours on a 30 minute final leg (of multiple stops) of a flight telling whoever was in front of them they just want to leave. We look back at it as though those interactions with people (he claims he didn’t know they were even FBI) were the chance to get their full story on the record of this historic case…but some of them could have looked at it as the last in a long line of hassle before finally getting to the person waiting to take them home/destination. The way the FBI collects 302s is also problematic. They should have recorded interviews. I know that was policy but it’s insane. So much is lost and then it’s transcribed by someone else and days later approved by the agent. That’s designed to have info slip through the cracks or get slightly twisted.

Yeah, it gets more wild with the not knowing even after the FBI interview. I like his approach though, had a few beers before hearing and had another after and went to bed. If you are going to be accused of skyjacking that’s probably the best way. The Mitchell stuff is odd but Bill claims to have jumped onboard right at the end. Maybe Michael missed him.

Michael Cooper says Dan Cooper boarded first. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsxHUZEG-A&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&embeds_referring_origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com Thoughts?

The issue is this line of inquiry is it cannot be dispositive. It’s like the quarter Mexican comment…it’s just one person. It could be right or it could be BS. How can it be used to solve the crime? We can discount suspects with good vision or no Mexican ancestry.

Does it even make it to his belly button? Sorry Hall fans but…dumbo in this photo.

Client Eastwood is Cooper:). Shut It Down. Case solved.

Cooper would not want to get to Vancouver/Portland. That doesn’t work for him. And what to we find? He jumps the next biggest town lights to the north. It’s all too much for it to be total chance and luck. The pilots could see lights, Cooper could see lights. Why in the hell would he not be leveraging the lights for his jump? I think the vortex has been overthinking this for a while. Cooper’s strategy is so solid it’s replicable in other places. A skyjacker takes off from San Jose at night. He wanted Helena but negotiates Salt Lake. The plane takes off and clears the Altamont Pass and passes over I-5… the plane is then over the Central Valley with one big metro in Sac and a series of smaller cities to the south (Stockton/Modesto). Any parajacker with basic knowledge of the region could use those lights and jump into flat farmland every time. It’s completely repeatable. It only takes some knowledge of the region.

He jumped the lights of BG and likely used I-5 as a guide (other distinctive lights). Cooper knew the area from the air and ground. He knew roughly where he was located the whole skyjacking. This seems fairly straightforward to me. Go A to B over an area you are familiar with. It makes total sense.

Thanks. Cooper did ask them to slow down. That would indicate 15 degrees and landing gear down didn’t lowering the aft stairs fully. At one point Cooper was looking at a handle he depressed to lower the stairs (which Tina showed him). Yet, the aft stairs were slightly open but not enough he could walk down standing up, Do you think that’s the correct scenario? I have this image of Cooper looking at the cracked but not fully descended stairs and having second thoughts. No one had ever tried this. He’d have to figure out how to get the stairs open enough to jump, not knowing for sure that was possible. The Cooper copycats knew it could be done. Cooper didn’t. Imagine having to put your weight on those steps to figure out the reaction of the stairs and plane? Dude was a criminal but he earned some of that money the hard way.

I find this part fascinating. Cooper basically gave the Air America drop configuration. But it didn’t work. He asked for the crew to slow down. What do you believe was the speed he jumped at? And how was that speed achieved (did the flaps stay at 15 degrees)?

What time do you have him sending Tina to the cockpit?

Of course not. Agreed. At night in triple cloud cover PNW grey, one is jumping lights. What else is there besides randomness or maybe mountain tops? Cooper went through a lot of thought process to jump at random. This wasn’t a drunk guy knocking off the local 7-11.

Rat saw sky glow. Can you point me to documentation of this? Thanks.

I agree he knew the plane was generally heading South to Reno,, but that is about it. South is not a specific target. If he was targeting a jump spot he would have made sure the plane was going to be there Cooper knew they were heading South to Reno,, that is is it,, South is not a path. This is a lot of the disagreement. His target is south! South is the path. He made sure the plane was going there, and the plane did in fact go there. And *he knew it was going south.* And he did in fact jump into ideal farmland. This is the genius of A to B. Cooper knows where he is at the whole time. He limited the variables. Mac was winging it, he only knew to jump the lights. Cooper knew what lights he was jumping. That’s the gap from a criminal of Mac’s level to one of Cooper’s. You are using the fact that plane went close to PDX so Cooper knew it was going to happen,, he didn't have any control over that. The variables are NOT as tight as you believe. About 90 miles at St Helens and over 100 at the Oregon border. Most hijacker's gave directions to their jump zone.. Cooper not only didn't but there is no reason he wouldn't in your scenario. I have St. Helens closer to 75 miles from the coast but 90 works too. Then, you have to factor in the safety space, I’m not a commercial pilot but I imagine this is a few miles at least. That’s the far eastern edge. Amboy is like ten miles west of St Helens. Most highjackers gave directions, so did Cooper. He just didn’t use coordinates or victors because he didn’t need too, it’s more advantageous not to. Cooper wants to have the search zone as big as possible, so he certainly isn’t giving coordinates. And he does not say fly 23 because he doesn’t care…Seattle to southern Washington only requires the plane to go south. He isn’t aiming for 1.35 miles east of X and 2.65 miles north of Y. He is aiming for the farmlands *region* of southern Washington. And he was successful in that endeavor. All this business about the plane could have gone to the ocean or gone mountain top dodging to the east, etc. that’s not what happened. *Anything could have happened.* And you say Cooper had no control over the direction the pilots took, he did. I disagree. He had a bomb and told them to fly south. They did what they were told and lived. He had total control, try some funny stuff and find out. They choice wisely. This he jump ad hoc business makes no sense. He had the stairs open at around 7:45 As you admit, he knows he is going south. He waits a half an hour and jumps the first lights at BG. In your version that’s just coincidence. In my version, that’s what makes sense. In your version Cooper is an idiot who just got lucky. In my version he was smart enough to know where he was generally located the whole time. Why do you think he waited half an hour?

At the Oregon border there is over a 100 mile stretch that the plane could have been.. V23 was 10 miles wide itself. Does Mt. St Helens exist? What you say about the boarder is right but it’s not relevant. Unless the plane either went in between the Helens/Admas/Reiner triangle or immediately zags east after St. Helens your point doesn’t matter. Do you believe the plane did or was going to do either of those things? You start at Mt. Hood as your basis, yet it’s the last one coming south. You have to account for the other mountains too. Look how far St. Helen’s is from the coast. That’s the real measure on the east. If Cooper targeted a jump spot he would have demanded the plane's path matched and he could see the ground. He did not give a path and it is not certian he could have seen the ground. Cooper did not have pre-knowledge of the path. He knew it was heading generally South. He might have looked down and figured out where he was depending on cloud cover but he did not direct the plane to a specific location. Cooper did have pre knowledge of the path, south from Seattle. And what is south of Seattle….Portland. He doesn’t need to give a victor or coordinates, why would he do that? He chose a short flight wedged in by mountains and an ocean. This is the advantage of a basic A to B approach. The variables are limited. Let me ask you this…do you think Cooper could tell which direction the plane was going after takeoff from Seattle? If the answer is yes, he got what he wanted. South. He said enough to achieve the goal. 50 years in people are arguing over victors etc., he didn’t care. Just go south and the plane will fly over the southern Washington farmlands he wanted. It’s basic and simple and actionable. He did not jump at BG, he jumped about 20-25 miles North of PDX.. The theory that Cooper targeting PDX and jumped to a predetermined spot is not supported by any evidence. It is completely made up. Your geography puts him jumping just north of BG. It’s almost like he jumped when he saw the first lights after the dark forest! Jumping the lights is also how Mac did it. It makes sense, it’s the best marker. Cooper could spot Tacoma from the air, he knows the area from above. You version is Cooper as idiot who jumps at random and hopes. Yet, the crime was thought out and he got away. My version is he did what guys who came later like Mac did. Cooper used the best markers on the ground to have a solid idea of where he was and he jumped the lights. We just disagree.

Again, why would a parajacker accept a westerly flight path on or near the coast? It makes no sense. And you can’t start your 100 mile measure south of Portland and pretend St. Helen’s doesn’t exist. Nor should one ignore the lights of I-5 as a guide. Or the possibility of Cooper having a compass. Or Cooper just in general paying attention to the flight direction. Cooper didn’t ask for southwest. He didn’t ask for southeast. He only gave or agreed to south. Reno and Mexico are south. If he agreed to Denver…or Hawaii…

Hey Ryan….Ive heard you say there are audio recording of the parajacking that are in the possession of one woman who worked at NWO. My question, Cooper is a federal crime and the statute of limitations has not expired due to the John Doe warrant…is it legal for a private citizen to withhold that evidence of a Federal crime? My guess is that it’s not legal unless the authorities have the evidence too. If that’s the case can the audio be FOIA’ed? And if not, can this lady be forced to turn over the audio legally? It’s literal evidence that could be used to solve the case in the modern era.

There might never be a piece of evidence that would convict someone in court. Even the palm print could be someone else’s and the same with the hair slide. But there could be a series of circumstantial pieces of evidence that form a narrative that’s really solid. If someone can tell the correct story of Cooper maybe that springs more evidence loose. The money being found in grandpa’s closet probably isn’t happening but the right story being told could prompt a kid or grandkid to find a photo or letter or something that collaborates the story. I think this is the best hope. Would everyone agree? Hell no. But we could have video, DNA evidence and a court conviction and some people still wouldn’t agree. If this case settles it does so with a generally agreed upon suspect, not universal acceptance.

I agree Cooper is a better criminal than Mac. Analogies aren’t exact. It’s the mindset and behaviors. Mac offered the stews tips too, he refused drinks/food after starting, etc. I don’t see any behaviors from Cooper that indicate he was Rambo popping off. The skyjacking wasn’t approached like a military mission. It lacks the precision. Guys like Braden aren’t offering pills or meals or tips or any of the sort.