Kamkisky

It was Flo. She exited the plane with Alice, and I believe she made it all the way to inside the car on the tarmac. Somehow she was allowed to just walk back up the stairs and go to the back with Cooper and Tina to retrieve her purse. It’s absolutely an insane thing to do. I’ve speculated she had something in her purse and realized she’d get busted if found…I’m happy to assume weed but could be other substances. No one cares 50+ years in if a 22 year old stew had party favors in her purse in her way to Miami. It’s not meant as a slight. Hell…I’d expect one of the crew to have something.

He did some strange things but like Georger said, some could be tactical. Having as little interaction with the world outside the plane as possible is a perfectly rationale decision. To me he seems like his plan was to keep it simple, get in and get out as quick as possible and have as few touch points as possible. He says as few words as possible too. Everything is focused on getting this show on the road. This is a bank robber mentality. The one thing he does that seems the oddest to me could be the easiest to explain. Cooper waited until the plane landed and Tina was going to make her first run and then he went to the bathroom with the briefcase and mystery bag. Why wait till on the ground? That has no tactical advantage unless he was up to something. And why bring the mystery bag from under his seat? I get he could have just had to take a piss but he isn’t a child. He would have known as the plane was descending he had to pee. It’s way smarter to do that in the air. It’s super suspicious to wait until on the ground when he is most vulnerable. Only one thing weirder happens the whole skyjacking. And that’s Flo re-boarding to get her purse. That’s just flat out crazy behavior. I found one other example of a passenger re-boarding, he came to get his jacket and he left in a body bag.

Let assume he has a grudge. Let’s also assume it’s not against NWA as he said. What entities could he be getting back at by skyjacking a plane? Outside of the airline industry or banks there’s aren’t many. And skyjacking a plane because you have a grudge against the manufacturer is to removed. If you had a grudge against BMW would you carjack a BMW for revenge? His grudge can’t be personal, he didn’t target a person. If his grudge was political he sure didn’t act or talk like it and ultimately wouldn’t have had any negative impact on it. There is no evidence he was acting to support a specific political cause. His grudge IMO is more general. He has a grudge against the system. He is sticking it to the man and getting what he sees as his in the process. This does have value in identifying him. He isn’t a political radical. He isn’t a NWA or Boeing employee. He isn’t carrying out the act against an individual. He has a grudge against society and this is a high profile, and high profit, way to stick it to the system.

This is the definition of gaslighting. They are telling him something he knows isn't true trying to get him to believe it. Your whole theory here is Cooper thought (who's reading his mind now?) that he was being setup. So instead of saying no to the setup, which is based on information he knows is false, he just agrees to the setup and decides instead to jump at random into the night three countries from his final destination. Bonkers. Just like he told the cowboy to go sit down, a Cooper with a plan to really go to Mexico tells the cockpit/GG to shove it, no more funny stuff and fly the plane to Mexico. There is no reason he can't do that. If needed Cooper could reiterate he has a blonde and bomb and he won't be taken alive. Captain Scott had a 16 year old daughter, he isn't going to play games. He'd fly the plane to Mexico. Let's be clear...if Cooper really wanted to go to Mexico he could have. Any theory without this obvious *and undisputed* fact incorporated can't be the right one.

He is 1,200 miles from Tijuana. Seems a little premature. And if your theory is right it set off a cascading effect that ends up forcing him to abandon his plan (second plan anyways) and jump at random into the night over a thousand miles from his original destination. Bad move. It’s so much simpler to look at what he did and just accept it. A to B and back to A. Jump the lights of terrain he knows and let the plane fly off to a distant destination to stretch the search zone. It’s a basic plan that is repeatable. It’s the most likely scenario according to a 14th century English philosopher named Ockham.

He is in Seattle and plans on landing in Mexico. Why is he talking to them about lowering stairs in flight at that point?

There is zero reason to ask for the stairs to be down or the plane to be configured in any abnormal way if he plans to be on it when it lands in Mexico. Not a single reason to discuss any of that in Seattle. What was he going to do, have them retract the stairs before landing in Mexico? The only time it makes sense to discuss that stuff is at the final stop before he plans to jump. This clearly indicates he planned to jump coming out of Seattle the whole time. Now maybe he planned to jump where he did or maybe he planned to do it elsewhere (Mexico) but it’s clear he planned to do it before the plane landed again, and he brought it up *before* Reno was discussed. Reno didn’t change the fact he was going to jump before the plane landed again.

Why is he giving *any* demands in the PNW about airstairs or configuration if he plans to be on the plane when it lands in Mexico?

Reno talk comes after he asks for the dirty configuration. It’s the dirty configuration that caused the conversation. When he asked for the dirty configuration he was planning to land in Mexico according to your theory. If he plans to land in Mexico there no reason to ask for any alternate configuration. The timing doesn’t work.

If his plan was to refuel in Mexico when he gave instructions to 305 in the PNW why ask for the dirty configuration? That configuration has only two rationales, to make it jumpable and to stretch out the search zone. If his plan was to be on the plane when it lands in Mexico neither of these apply. It makes no sense to ask for it.

So landing in Mexico to refuel didn’t scare him. Landing in Seattle to get cash and refuel didn’t scare him. Landing in Reno to refill freaked him out and he changed plans. I don’t know Fly…it’s a lot.

He seemed as rationale as someone skyjacking a plane can be. Another point, if Cooper is H then his ultimate destination is Honduras, not Mexico. Even if he was successful he would have found himself in Northern Mexico with a 22 pound bag of American cash. He’d have to make it across all of Mexico and Guatemala to get to Honduras. Thats a serious flaw in his plan. H just skyjacked and told them to take him to Honduras, that’s at least a real and viable plan. Why the first time would he have had such a crappy unviable plan? I get improvements but the gap here isn’t improvements, it’s the gap from a moron to at least average intelligence.

If his intentions were never to skyjack in the PNW boy did he get lucky since he knew the area he didn’t intent to be in. He knows Tacoma from the air and McChord on the ground. The back of the napkin math to Mexico City is also great point. Also, why take a plane flying the wrong way and conduct his business in Seattle? Why not take a flight heading south towards his destination of Mexico? If he is plane hopping looking for an opportunity, he has money in his pocket, he has the ability to pick a flight that more fits his desire to go to Mexico. Another point I’ve made that you’ve never addressed is, if he did what you suggest and managed to get the flight distance of the 727 correct (when not dirty) why would he agree to negotiate a new destination? I get you say the game of telephone caused confusion. But that’s confusion in communications, if he knew the plane could make it to Mexico he has no incentive to change. He just says BS, this plane fully fueled can fly way father than Reno so get this thing to Mexico and no more funny stuff. I mean, you can’t convince me a small car I know holds 12 gallons can only go 60 miles. Im not changing my plans based on someone telling we can only get 60 miles…I’d call BS. Your argument is he got gaslight and bought it hook line and sinker.

Overall this is fairly simple. Fly is right, they did consider the coast (although I have yet to see them talking v27 or v187). To Fly that means that route was legit. Here’s where the disagreement comes in, because the cockpit considered it to Fly that means Cooper didn’t have a preferred “path” and thus didn’t have a “LZ” targeted and thus was winging it and jumped at random. My position is you cannot determine what Cooper wanted or planned based on what the cockpit discussed. To understand Cooper’s plan you have to look at what Cooper discussed and did. Only south. Said no to coastal airports. Is wearing a parachute at take off. Goes A to B (KISS principle). Out waits the dark forest. Jumps the first metro lights, lands in a prime *region* (not an exact LZ) close to where he started. Nothing the cockpit discussed changes any of that. The cockpit could have discussed going due east and then south flying the backside of the mountains over desert to get to Reno (the actual least populated route)…and that’d have the same impact on Cooper’s plan, none. They could have talked about flying to the moon, same impact. Cooper had his desired state of affairs, he communicated those. Ultimately he got them. The machinations of GC and the cockpit were just that. Those machinations are what was in their heads…not what was in Cooper’s. I care about understanding Cooper’s mindset and plan, not Rat’s or GC’s. That’s why I focus on Cooper’s words and actions not the cockpit conversations.

Thanks. I don't know enough to understand "going J-5" or the rest of the text from the files Fly posted. It doesn't say v187 or v27 or v23. I'll await someone more knowledgeable to interpret what's being said here. What I do know is this is those things are not being said by Cooper. It's being said by people who didn't understand the plan was to jump out the back of the jet. I also know Cooper did not say anything about "put us southerly out over the, somewhat along the coast." He said no to coastal airports. He said yes to Reno. I also know Astoria is not on the way to Reno.

This is documented? V187 takes the plane to Astoria, still the coast. It's definitely more southwest. It ain't south though, and any layman with a map could tell you it's not on the way to Reno.

Like I said, it's damn near due west. Cooper would be able to tell the plane was heading to the coast right after takeoff. Reno is south. No parajacker wants the coast. That makes no sense. There's what the cockpit and headquarters was thinking, not understanding the situation, and there is what Cooper wanted and was thinking. Cooper is the guy with the bomb. He is going to win. He wanted south, he never said or negotiated anything directly west. This is all straight forward stuff.

I think your own version conflicts with your above statement. By the time they take off from SeaTac they’ve agreed to Reno. In your version this new agreement is what causes Cooper to change plans and jump early (before Mexico). This only makes them flying west from the airport worse. If Cooper is like oh crap change of plans I got to bail soon, west is a death sentence. Once they make the coast he is toast or he has to tell them to fly back inland…which is my point. A parajacker looking to jump can’t have them flying the coast. There is zero reason he’d accept the plane flying straight towards the ocean at take off. Let’s test that…can anyone name a single reason a parajacker wearing a chute looking to jump soon would want to fly directly to the ocean after just agreeing to Reno?

This is the gap. Yes, they discussed it. They didn’t understand what the hell was going on. They didn’t know why he wanted to be depressurized. They were talking crazy. People are arguing from the cockpit’s point of view. What I’m saying is from Cooper’s point of view. Reno. Agreed. That’s where the plane will fly to. The plane takes off and goes directly west. WTF? No. Cooper can’t jump at the ocean. Flying west defeats his entire escape plan. There’s zero, and I mean that in the absolutist sense, there is zero reason for him to accept that. Not one. It’s not what he just agreed to. It’s funny stuff. It’s a damn good way to get the cockpit door opened and be staring down the barrel of a gun.

Unless I’m reading the map wrong V27 is west. It goes from Sea Tac basically dead west from the airport to the coast. Cooper just agreed to south and no coastal airports, he is wearing a parachute. There is nothing to suggest he would have been ok with the plane taking off and heading directly to the ocean. It’s not a false narrative, assuming he would have accepted that is a false narrative. Taking V27 is trying to kill a parajacker.

Ryan - you said on tonight’s live that both V23 and V27 “go out south from Seattle.” It’s at the 41 minute mark. This was part of your point that a Cooper didn’t give enough instructions and they could have taken the alternative route of V27. vfrmap.com I’m not an aviation person. What I see on this map is that V27 takes the plane from SeaTac to Ocean Shores, WA. That’s not south. It’s damn near due west. Cooper is wearing a parachute. The coast means death to him. He accepts a plane flying straight west why? Technically you’re right, they could have gone that way. They could have gone north too. Both are not the agreed upon direction. Cooper was clear, no coast airports and only airports to the south. The idea he was going to be cool with the plane going west after just negotiating south I don’t understand and I see no evidence for it. West is also the worst direction for Cooper. My point is, they discussed it in the cockpit but it’s not what Cooper demanded or agreed to. There’s no evidence he would have accepted it, there’s plenty of evidence he wouldn’t have.

I agree that he has a goal of stretching out the search zone by giving destinations as far south as possible. I also agree he had no intention of ever being on the plane the next time it landed (hell...he is wearing a parachute at take off in Seattle). It comes down to if he knew about V23 or not, and I don't think it matters much. Either he did, and he gave instructions that would force them to use it...or he didn't and he gave them instructions that would force them to use it. Either way, the plane is going south towards Portland and that's all he really cares about regarding the flight path. No coast, no mountains, not north...the rest works itself out.

Cooper rejects the coast three times (SF/LA/SD). Cooper suggests and/or accepts Reno/Yuma/Phoenix. All coastal airports rejected. Only inland airports (all directly south) were acceptable/suggested. Hmmm...I wonder why. Maybe it's the size of the airport, although you won't really expect Cooper to say "sorry I'm going to jump out of the back here soon so I don't want the plane going near the coast so please just fly due south over Portland." The evidence aligns with the, rather obvious conclusion, that Cooper didn't want the coast. Further, his 10k ft configuration means they can't go east over the mountains. There's only one way the plane can go...south. And what's south...farmland north of Portland. And the farmland has lights, unlike the forest above it. And what does Cooper do...he waits almost a half and hour while flying over the dark forest before he jumps right at the first metro lights of the farmland. It's all to much to be random. It's a plan and it worked.

Fill us in please. The current data on the board leans in a certain direction.