Kamkisky

That five in the bottom left looks like the erosion pattern of the Cooper money to me. You also are very light on the why. Somebody just tossed it near the river. That’s pretty weak. It could happen but is not really a reason, it’s just pushing off the actual reason. The best answer I hear for this is because the money was hot so someone wanted to get rid of it…by just throwing it near the river. Ehh…it’s so soft of a rationale.

Even if you skip the how you’re still left with a why. Why was the money near/in the river upstream or a sand bank? I just imagine myself on a beach. I dig a hole. I put a bundle of money in it with no plastic or other serious protection…just cash and rubber bands (maybe paper bands). I then fill that hole. What’s my thought process possibilities? If I never want it to be found I’d be thinking this is a dumb idea. Buried things in sand get found all the time, erosion is real, people use this beach, etc. If I was thinking I want it found/recovered by myself or someone else…it needs to be found shortly or it will get ruined. So my reason requires either myself or another person to intentionally come and get it soon. The only other reason that could make sense is I do want it found but not intentionally by myself or another person. I want it to be found randomly…but why? Could be Tina for Tena. Could be to throw a wrench in the case/search. But as I would be covering up the hole I’d have to consider that the money could be found and neither of those things happen. The most likely scenario of a random person finding the money is they keep and Tina or the cops never know. I’d think this was a dumb idea. For me the most logical reason is I want it recovered soon by myself or someone I’ve told. Second best reason is to have it gone forever, but I’m doing it in kinda a stupid way. Just sinking it in the river is better than buried on the beach (and of course the most obvious option of burning it…which I could even do at Tena Bar). The distant third is wanting a random person to find it to send a message to Tina or the cops.

Natural vs Mechanical vs Human I was a little surprised to hear Ryan say he still likes natural means. Natural and mechanical both suffer from a major problem. They require two solutions. Not only do these require explanations for how the money was moved to Tena Bar, but also how did the money get to where it was before being moved to Tena bar. You have to explain *why* the money was in/near the river or in a sand bar and then explain *how* it was moved to Tena Bar. Human intervention requires only one explanation. Why. It avoids having to link why with how. That’s a simpler explanation. Someone dug a hole on that beach and buried money without protection (no bag, wrapping, etc.). There’s very few reasons that can make sense.

He had two similar -but not exact- back chutes and he chose one. What does this tell us? It tells us he didn’t choose none or both. That’s about it. The rest is 50/50.

Ryan has discussed this before. Skip Hall was only in prison in Cuba before Cooper as far as I can tell. So this dude would have to have been in a Cuba prison and why would someone go through all that trouble to say this to her if it was true? What’s the value add here? And why Flo instead of Tina? This is part of why the crew hasn’t been as active as possible, to many weirdos came at them.

Let’s assume he wanted to go to Mexico as you claim. What was his jump plan?

I’m unclear how many times I’ll need to write this is a strawman.

He knew where he started from, and where he came from. He knew the location they were heading towards, he had just negotiated it. He could tell which direction they went at take off. He knew they weren’t flying full speed and the length of time he was in the air. He knew the terrain from the air and land. He knew 10k ft was below mountains to the east. Pilots could see lights, he could too. Your theory he was totally clueless about his location is what’s not supported by the evidence.

What does H want the money for?

South is a direction. It’s the direction he wanted to go based on every statement he made (that’s the totality of the evidence…as in all of it). The path, used as a substitute for airway, was not discussed with him and he didn’t bring it up. That’s stuff ATC and the pilots and NWA kicked around without Cooper’s knowledge. It’s totally irrelevant to anything he said or did, he never knew about it. We are trying to find out Cooper’s thoughts and actions, not the pilots. The ‘Cooper knew they could only take V23’ bit is a strawman. That’s not the argument being made. This many pages in that should be clear by now.

The reason he accepts Reno -when he knows he can go to Mexico- is “respect” for the crew? I can’t get there. Also, if he thought Reno was a setup that’s even more reason to demand Mexico. And of course he would think every time he lands the plane could be stormed, that’s baked in from the start to all skyjackings.

This is why debate is good. This post is easily the one you’ve made on this topic that I agree with the most. There’s a fact pattern. And I fully agree on his primary goal. Where we part is I don’t think Mexico was ever his goal. And I think his LZ is a matter of magnitudes more important than the other items mentioned. - He had a chute in his possession. He clearly had determined he trusted it enough he would jump with it. Asking for another is marginal considering the circumstances. - He has the money. Rigging a bag is annoying…but that’s about it. He clearly trusted his skills in tying it to himself. Asking for another knapsack is marginal considering the circumstances. - Changing his LZ from Mexico to pre-Reno is a *massive* change. The other two are whatever's comparatively. This one is life and death, freedom or prison. Getting the money is part one, getting away with it is the more important part two. This theory is he completely abandoned his part two because the pilots told him some crap he knew wasn’t true. I can’t get past it. I think most men in his situation tells the pilots no more funny stuff and to fly to Mexico…get this show on the road.

Forget gaslit. Why would a man skyjacking a plane he *knows* can fly to Mexico allow others to tell him it can’t and totally change his plans based on that information he knows to be untrue?

Why would Cooper allow himself to be gaslit about the distance the plane could fly?

Again, strawman. My claim is Cooper wanted the plane to go south (FBI agrees). He wanted this because south would take him to the farmland north of Vancouver (geography as a discipline and maps in general agree). I believe he wanted to jump into that type of terrain vs other options (common sense and I bet skydivers agree). He could see distinctive lights (Pilots agree). I think he jumped the lights (Mac agrees). Cooper kept it simple and was successful (50+ years of freedom agrees). A to B over terrain he knows. It has a lot of advantages. Path vs direction changes none of it. Let me make this as clear as I can…he wanted south from SeaTac it is the pilots/GC and you that struggle with this path business. Cooper had no such struggles. How long till you think you’ll have it solved?

1) Thanks. 2) Repeat strawman. People can read my previous posts. And you also misuse the term path per your definition. 3) Per your definition I agree, south would be a direction and not a path…which is how I’ve been using it this whole time. 4) There would be countless paths to Reno by your definition. 5) I pointed out your theory has a lot of moving parts and assumptions. If you take that as an attack, ok. I’d call it a critique. 6) Critiquing others theories is exactly how logic works in application. Scientific method… 7) True 8) You haven’t proven that, or come close. Your post on distinctive lights actually works in the opposite. 9) Great. When you present it we can evaluate it. If you’re right…I’ll happily give you the credit deserved.

The 8:18 evidence seems pretty damming to his new theory/witness. Do we know where Rat is from originally? The mark your shrimp boats line isn’t a thing in many/most places of the country.

1) I am still trying to figure out what your definition of a path is. I’ve learned some paths are airways. This leads to the question of what besides airways are paths? 2) That’s a strawman. I don’t make that argument. I’m in SF and jumping the Central Valley I don’t give a **** what airway the plane takes. Maybe I know about every airway leaving SF and maybe I’ve never heard of an airway. It makes no difference. I just need the plane to go east. Cooper needed south. This isn’t a complex situation. 3) I said the exact opposite. I said maybe your theory is right and I could be wrong. I just pointed out yours is more complicated. That’s a totally fair critique. It’s objectively true. Your theory has more parts than mine. This isn’t an argument or abuse of logic.

Won't lie. Had to look it up. Yikes.

Finally, my theory is he was targeting terrain. Essentially he wanted farmland and not forest, cities or ocean. He -per the FBI- wanted to go south. He, per the accounts of when Tina went to the cockpit, jumped after waiting out the dark forest. Per accounts of the pressure bump, he jumps before the Vancouver suburbs. I think it's easy to assume he wanted west of the mountains he was flying lower than which could kill him and east of the coast that'd kill him too. He had I-5 as a guiding corridor as well as the lights of BG. He might have used other lights too. That's his intended LZ, basically south of the Lewis River and North of Vancouver somewhere near I-5. Maybe that fits into other people's definition of a LZ, maybe it doesn't. For the operating principle he needed to land in farmland this was sufficient. And it worked.

FBI - "It was clear..." Cooper wanted to go south from Seattle. Pilots - We could see Portland and other distinctive lights. Cooper - Jumps at the lights just north of Portland. Fly - That's not evidence. OK. -------- Let's try this one last time, as a multiple choice: If you were jumping out of the back of a 727 jet at night with a single parachute, would you try to land in: a) a dense forest (Cooper waited it out) b) a rugged coastline/ocean (Cooper never agreed to it, and it'd likely kill him) c) somewhere on a 10k ft mountain (Cooper set flight configurations that make it impossible without massive risk of death for everyone on board) d) inside a city/suburbs (Cooper jumped before because that's a life in prison sentence) e) rolling farmland (Hmmm) We could give this test to elementary school children...they'd largely pick correctly. --------- I'm not clear what about this isn't straight forward. It'd be easy to say, yes your theory has less moving parts but I have trouble with the flight path element, my theory accounts for X more than yours...let me tell you how. That wouldn't be hard. But you just insist your far more complex theory, based on many more assumptions, is the most basic concept that accounts for everything. Well...sorry. It doesn't. You can't account for why he didn't insist on Mexico when he knew he could get there. You can't account for how he calculated the fly distance of a 727 from a starting point he didn't plan on (according your theory). You can't account for why he went with the PNW when he really wanted to go to Mexico (according to you). You simply have a more convoluted theory, that doesn't mean you're wrong and I'm right. But it does mean your's is more convoluted, which is fine. Just own it. Not a big deal.

1) No one is claiming he targeted a “spot.” So we can drop this one. 2) You’re getting closer. And he did know where he was going…south from SeaTac. 3) This is where your “no targeted LZ” responses aren’t relevant to the jump the lights theory. No one is suggesting this degree of accuracy. Go back to number two’s LZ and we are comparing something closer to apples to apples. 4) Name another person -not in a crashing plane- who has ever willing jumped the coast of the PNW or Nor Cal at night? With or without safety protocols? Is there a single example? No sane person would do that. This is one of your biggest assumptions. Have you been to this coastline? To jump it is a suicide attempt. He have to have no idea what direction the plane flew and could not see anything underneath him. He’d have to come out of a short coma and jump into a sightless void. It just makes zero sense.

When you say LZ how big of an area are you referencing?

Of course. That’s why he is so flexible. He doesn’t intend to go to Mexico, or Phoenix or Reno. He doesn’t care. That’s all just to stretch out the search zone and give him time on the ground. There’s a reason he picked the maximum flight distance. Fly makes it more complex. His story has a bunch of massive and impactful course changes built in. It so radically changes the plan that H jumps in Washington state when his ultimate goal is Honduras. Talk about a change of plans. The simpler version is Cooper got what he needed and the rest was a big whatever… -The money (never wavered) -The chute (he needs a way to get down, he got that) -Jump configuration (he didn’t budge a fraction) -South direction towards Portland (he negotiated nothing else) -Ability to get the aft stairs open (he is even willing to keep a hostage with him to achieve this one). These are the things where he offered no substantial compromise. He was going to get what he needed. Why? Because that’s what he needed. The rest is a whatever works the fastest and with the least contact with authorities mentality.

“It was clear from this command that Cooper did not particularly care where the plane went as long as it went south from Seattle.” I guess this isn’t evidence? It’s an assumption? Riddled with errors?