cobaltdan

i always jump with an ADD except in competition water-swooping (hop&pops). the rest jim sumed up well. sincerely, dan

"I used to sew pull up cords to the bottom of a pair of baggy jeans, like a stirup to put my foot in so when I went to a sit they wouldn't ride up my leg." my first freefly pants were exactly the same. after about a month they completely exploded up the seams, while i was doing a speed jump in a stand. i landed in my undies with what was left of my pants flapping behind me like a flag.......i was definately the butt of some jokes for a while... btw. EG of EG skytechnologies (listed under the dealers page @ www.extremefly.com) makes some very inexpensive freefly suits and pants. he is great guy give him a ring, he might have some close outs for the budget minded ! sincerely, dan atair

" 1 fatality in 110,000 jumps...90% of those fatalities were under a functioning parachute.." can anyone substantiate the above statistic? does anyone have other pertainent statistics (and their sources), i.e. for injuries. sincerely, dan atair

"Dan how comfortable would you be landing that 113 with out flaring it? " i've done it, and wish to avoid it in the future. in this sport we all accept certain risks to participate in the diciplines we love. in that i choose to jump a sub 100 main, i am basically limited by container design to jumping a max size reserve around 113 (with a mush pack main in an nj a 126 reserve). even if i did have containers available to allow me to jump a reserve say 5 sizes up from my main , i would still choose to jump with a small reserve. statistically an unconsious reserve ride is not probable enough for me to decide to jump and lug around a reserve double the size of my main. -dan

canopies can react in undesirable ways when in a stall...most especially when in a stall with a sudden change in input. please practice stalls with slow inputs: risers and toggles. explore the flight and control envelope of your canopy with progressive input. sincerely, dan atair

top alpha is aproaching 3000 jumps and still checking great on the porosity meter. sincerely, dan

i think chucky is awol in key west ....? -dan

this thread sort of went the direction of flare technique and in reading a few of the posts i thought reposting the below might be useful. it was original from a thread called balance and canopy excercises: i would like to explain a simple concept for canopy control as i think it would benefit some learning jumpers: on student gear most people are taught a 2 stage flare, when you transition to your first slightly smaller 9 cell zpo sport canopy, you may not have good luck with what you have been taught. flaring is not something you gauge with the position of your hands ! instead understand that you are suspended under your canopy, a weight on a string somewhat like a pendulum. you can tell what you are doing by > feel

shifting weight in your harness to the same side as your pulled down riser (co-steering) will give you a snap turn, ie. a very fast hook. shifting weight in your harness to the opposite side as your pulled down riser (counter-steering) will give you a broader carving hook turn. when doing a riser turn you can use weight shift to control your arc. counter steer to elongate it co steer to shorten it. sincerely, dan atair

not that i am endorsing it but i have more than a few rides on a pd 113 @ 76# over the placard (i also jump an atair 110 german tso)...btw, no i am not stupid. happens that this particular canopy has been tested to a much higher limit than the placard (do not count on this being the case for every reserve!!!!). no plf's ever, flies and is much bigger than my main (flies like a specter). point is: #1 concern on a reserve is to make sure the rating can handle your weight at the highest speed you may use it. # 2 concern should be am i comfortable landing it. i think some people fixate on having a reserve much larger than their main becaues they are scared of how it will land....it is silly that most people would not think to demo a reserve... try before you buy. it will help you feel confident in your choice of size and, the first time you land any canopy should not be under less than ideal circumstances. sincerely, dan

there are all types of 7 cell and 9 cell canopies... with that said the only general statement you can make is that the greater the aspect ratio (span:chord) the better the glide ratio (how many feet horizontally foward you glide for every foot vertically you decend). so 9 cell canopies can out glide 7 cell canopies. (note: you can make a case for exception when comparing i.e. a badly designed (or old design) 9 vs a very good newer design 7.) but in short given equal standards 9 cell canopies will always out glide 7's (which out glide 5's...dont see many of those around anymore?). sincerely, dan atair

jim manufacturers collapsable chutes for atair. i recommend them highly ! we use to just refer people to him, but he asked us not to as he prefers to only sell wholesale. db you might want to check with jim before you post his number for retail sales. sincerely, dan

you were taught the right stuff, you are just not practiced. i would have to say no to your second procedure. (i only have experience on the larger winged skyflyer, not the smaller classic or gti.) best way to fly is track with a flat body. head looking down not up, shoulders rolled foward, elbows bent and facing out, palms facing out, dig in toes and straighten knees. you will pick up speed rapidly. at first slightly diving and then you will level out and achieve the best fall rate. the faster you track the more lift you produce. when you begin the faster you fly the more you may waffle. you will work this out with practice. simply put on the brakes by bending you knees slightly to gain more stability, then slowly try to speed up again. deploy high ! a second prior to deployment, i put on the brakes (bend knees) to bleed off some speed then immediately transition back to the track described above. once stable, close all wings (arms and legs) simutaneously. and instantly fold all back out dumping your pilot. its hard ! it should be a fast single movement as in close&throw, not close then grab your hangle then throw. split second, symetrically close all wings and deploy while opening all wings. when you get it right you will continue to track straight and not dive. by doing this your pilot is assured to go into clean air. if you arch and fold your feet to your butt you will deploy directly into a turbulent burble. video's of such technique have shown pilots chutes coming back in and bags touching your feet. sincerely, dan as far as the hard opening : i think you have to be crazy to jump a sabre, especially with track deployments (i know bad form for a manufacture to slam a competing product, but given i cracked my c6 on deployment with a sabre 135 i am taking liberty)...

do non cascaded lines make a difference? yea, double the line drag making the lines the highest source of drag on your canopy. -dan

also note that flying technique will be different between the xaos and the cobalt. on the cobalt a proficient turn will put you right into your swoop without having to touch your toggles. on the xaos you will probably have to hit your brakes to come around the corner. the two canopies will have a much different feel. for best comparison jump a cobalt at 2.1 as well :) freeflyguy: i don't know about 270 being safer than 180's......if someone pulls a 270 so low they are bailing at 90, they probably should not be trying 270's.......? and if they cant land their swoop rocket cross wind (90 exit on a 180) they shouldn't be jumping it.... sincerely, dan atair

i have seen a bunch of collapses at the ranch resulting in injury. the landing area is narrow between treelines with typicaly a cross wind. in all but one of the cases i saw, the canopies were lightly loaded and brought in on partial brakes. additionally many days at the ranch you can watch load after load of canopies and the effect of the tree turbulence on them. (turbulence effects that do not result in accidents) it has been my observation that canopies (especially lightly loaded) are effected more by turbulence if flown in brakes. maintaining full foward flight speed seems to me to be a better procedure. one of the events was kind of unique in that i watched 4 jumpers land almost simultaneously in the same area near the tree line. all were lightly loaded (both 7 cell and 9 canopies), two of the jumpers rode out the bumps, maintaining full flight passing by the other 2 jumpers at tree level, landing first . then the 2 other jumpers continued slowly, spooked by the turbulence, in partial brakes sinking down. at about 25' both canopies collapsed. broken ankles resulting. sincerely, dan

some canopies have none, some have small or restricted cross ports (depends on size and model). since all of our patents applications are on file we should update our spec sheet on the website. our 2 stage deployments (cobalt, 3-9 cell deployment) and multistage deployments (comp cobalt, ie. 3-5-7-9 cell deployment) are based on controlling several variables the most significant is controlled conductance of air through the crossports. sincerely, dan atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com

a few quick notes: dyters are not the most accurate indicators of speed. we have given our dataloger out for most anyone to jump at different boogies. i have done this for 2 seasons and have never recorded a freeflyer deploying at less than 140. personally, i fly on avarage around 175. in a stand legs together with arms diagonaly high, i have pushed 257. to decelerate to 120, 1000' is not enough from an avarage freefly jump. that (and a broken neck on deployment from a sabre) explain the creation of the cobalt ! as far as flying stalls. up high try it on a cobalt, if you iniatiate it slowly you can fly the canopy backwards without collapsing it. while going backwords you can initiate reverse turns as well. you will deflate the inboard side end cells. transition back to foward flight slow and smooth. its a fun excercise and good practice for base. as far as the wear and tear on your canopy: fabric: opening shock and uv. even at 15 min at a pop the uv exposure is not that big a deal. paragliders have proven the fabric to last considerably longer...lines: basically the opening and high g turns add a bit as well. during level flight the lines are underloaded. some lines are very sensitive to uv, namely vectran and kevlar type polymers. vectran can loose over 60% its strength within 4 hours of strong sunlight exposure. sincerely, dan atair

center 3 cells are equal cord, outer cells have a linear taper both nose and tail. sincerely, daniel atair

hi roq, very good point ! i agree with your observation, but note that from our data logger we know that the cobalt out glides (all other skydiving canopies) and is actually slower (given equal loading, in foward flight) than competing canopies. the end result is pretty cool in that you can swoop farther but at a slower speed. sincerly, dan atair

as rob pointed any canopy that does not use the exact same rib for every rib is elliptical. "top blade running competitors jump tapered canopies." interesting note many 'top blade running' canopies are not very elliptical. ie a vx or fx are quite square on the list of 'elliptical' canopies. these canopies increase their glide (swoop) with other variables, ie. increased speed and decreased spanwise airfoil distortion. lots of variables affect the efficiency of a canopy. planform (the projected shape) is just one of them. "para-gliders are tapered so radically that they ceased looking like parachutes a long time ago" they also look different due to their significantly larger aspect ratio. competition wings almost look like banannas. 'a para-glider designer named John Bouchard claims to have invented elliptically tapered canopies. The first tapered parachute was the Blue Track' introduced by Parachutes de France in the late 1980s. actually it was the volplane canopy from pioneer patent # 3,524,613I in 1968. designed by jim reuter and greg yarbonet. this was the very first production canopy to have greg's invention of the >slider

cobalts even very highly loaded and stalled will not bow tie. -- people who do deep riser turns will have longer brake lines. this will put the control range lower in their reach. we leave this to be done to suit the end user on custom canopies. on our demo's particularly the larger sizes are do not have long brake lines. typically these larger size demo's are jumped at lighter loadings by jumpers not agressively risering, in this case as a one size fits all i prefer the brake lines on the short side. it does sound like the 135 demo in this case could have the brake lines slightly lengthened. sincerely, dan atair

i received your email today and sent you the following reply: > ----------Forwarded message ---------- > Return-Path: > Delivered-To: info@extremefly.com > Received: (qmail 87433 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 22:46:48 -0000 > Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:45:31 -0600 > From: "Mark" > To: > Subject: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer. > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 > Return-Path: mnesser1@kscable.com > Date: 26 Nov 2001 16:45:31 -0600 > > Name=3DMark Nesser > email_address=3Dburn_it_in@hotmail.com > address=3D > city=3D > state=3D > zip=3D > country=3D > phone=3D > fax=3D > exit_weight=3D170=20 > jump_to_date=3D440 > cur_canopy=3DCobalt=20 > size=3D105 > jump_curr_can=3D5 > body_text=3DLast week I received my Cobalt 105. I have made 5 jumps on = > the canopy so far and am concerned about the trim or a possible = > manufacturing defect in the canopy. After deployment and under a fully = > inflated canopy, there is a slight - moderate right turn built in. This = > happens when the brakes are stowed or when the toggles are all the way = > up (full flight). Since the first jump, I have been very cautious of = > the legstrap lengths and haven't noticed anything unusual. On the fifth = > jump, I purposely tightened the left legstrap about 1" more than the = > right leg strap to see if this would correct the right turning tendency. = > This resulted in straight flight, possibly a very slight left turn = > (assumed this would happen). I had my rigger check / compare the line = > lengths and nothing appeared unusual. Until I hear back from Atair, I = > will contiue to jump the canopy to try to figure out if the problem is = > within the operator (me) or the canopy. I would assume that if the = > error lies with me, that the turns would not consistently be in the same = > direction. Have there been any other cases where an Atair canopy is out = > of trim right from the factory? > Any information would be greatly appreciated. I hope that safety will = > not be an issue unless the condition worsens. > Thank you, > Mark Nesser > burn_it_in@hotmail.com > > dear mark, to date we have never had an instance where a canopy with trim out of spec has passed our quality control and made it to the hands of a customer. canopies are qc'ed twice, first in europe and then again in the us. i am not saying it is impossible, just highly unlikely. i can send you or your rigger a line trim chart to double check all measurements or of course you can also send the canopy back and we will gladly check it here for you. a few things can basically cause a subtle turn: most common pilot body position (btw in this instance it usually does consistantly happen on the same side) , lines out of trim asymmetrically, or improperly sewn panels (ie. if an asymmetry was sewn into the canopy). the latter is also so far unexperienced by us as all panels have match points on them which we hold to tollerences of several milimeters. we did have one instance where a base prototype canopy we built had a turn and we sluthed the problem to mixing 2 different brand fabrics. one stretched differently than the other and created a slight asymmetry. note: all cobalts are exclusively made from gelvenor fabric (no mixing). please give me a call when you get the chance to discuss. sincerely, dan preston atair aerodynamics 718-923-1709 ph

hi zennie, sounds like the brake lines are too short. i will check them as soon as the canopy comes back in. btw. it is good to be able to judge this for yourself. begin with canopy in full flight, toggles up. look at the brake linesthey should bow slightly back and the tail should be straight. slowly pull down the toggles until the tail just gets tension on it and begins to lip down. at that point look at how far below the keeper rings your toggles are. this tells you 1 the start of your control range and 2 if the lines are equal length. next continue to flare to a swoop and then a stall, observing the same. then finally perform a riser turn and look at your tail. brake lines should be adjusted so as to not significantly affect the tail during a riser manuever. one of the reasons it is important to learn to judge brake settings for yourself is that this is not a one size fits all adjustment. different rigs, different length and type risers, different height & arm length pilots, different flying styles and diferent loadings all have effect. enjoy the demo. sincerely, dan atair

we recommend zp pilots. cobalts 135 and below : 22" zp collapsable above 24" zp collapsable. as a zp pilot should be smaller than your f111 it is very important to make sure the spandex pocket is not too loose. if it is simply have your rigger fix it. pilot chute misconceptions: zp pilots inflate and cause air to spill out unstabily: complete BS. if you doubt simply fly one off the back of your pickup truck and watch. zp pulls harder and will damage your chute: again BS. zp pilots will pull what ever you want them to, ie. size properly. btw the f111 pilots supplied as standard by some container companies have more that 2 times the required pull force. jumping the recommended size pilot on a cobalt will actually reduce wear over stock container f111's not to mention lower snatch force. ps. check the archive, there have been some good posts by dave brownell, myself and others.. sincerely, dan